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Why still denying it?

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posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by signalfire
reply to post by JimOberg
 


Way to go to not answer the question. Explain Philip Corso's revelations and Richard Dolan's research away as 'pseudo-scientific'.
Well, Stanton Friedman does a pretty good job with Corso. My take on Dolan is that he's a UFO historian and a good speaker. He doesn't offer up much science. People do claim things and Dolan's research shows that they do claim things. "who are they and what do they want?" he's good at the game.
edit on 10-6-2013 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by signalfire
reply to post by JimOberg
 


Way to go to not answer the question. Explain Philip Corso's revelations and Richard Dolan's research away as 'pseudo-scientific'.
Well, Stanton Friedman does a pretty good job with Corso. My take on Dolan is that he's a UFO historian and a good speaker. He doesn't offer up much science. People do claim things and Dolan's research shows that they do claim things. "who are they and what do they want?" he's good at the game.
edit on 10-6-2013 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)


Game? Erm, documents have been presented that show a cover up over some unusual stuff and as far as I can tell, Dolan is only saying what he thinks.

How can there be a scientific approach when all the science is being held by TPTB?



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by signalfire
reply to post by JimOberg
 


Way to go to not answer the question. Explain Philip Corso's revelations and Richard Dolan's research away as 'pseudo-scientific'.


For Dolan, i recommend
www.scribd.com...

For Corso, the book's author [whoever that is] raved nonsense about space projects and history, secure in the knowledge that the target audience was too uninformed -- and disinclined -- to ever check up. And however contemputuous he may have been of your knowledge and intelligence, you have fulfilled that estimate. And refused help, when it has been offered.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 



Game? Erm, documents have been presented that show a cover up over some unusual stuff and as far as I can tell, Dolan is only saying what he thinks.


I have nothing against Dolan. By "game" I mean he tells a good UFO story without lying because he doesnt have to. He does go by "Historian" and I think that's part of the game also. My question is, does he just report the stories or does he investigate them also?

I think he skates a fine line between reality and fiction. Just what I think.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 



Game? Erm, documents have been presented that show a cover up over some unusual stuff and as far as I can tell, Dolan is only saying what he thinks.


I have nothing against Dolan. By "game" I mean he tells a good UFO story without lying because he doesnt have to. He does go by "Historian" and I think that's part of the game also. My question is, does he just report the stories or does he investigate them also?

I think he skates a fine line between reality and fiction. Just what I think.


Well by that same token so does the TPTB, so I guess it falls on the veracity of the documents and once again, how can there be a scientific approach when all the cards appear to be held by those in the know.

We can all bash heads on this forum saying this and that about him or her but at the end of the day, there is a lot of things being with-held.
edit on 10-6-2013 by Zcustosmorum because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by JimOberg
 


That is a great critique of Dolan's work. Harsh but true. I did come across that before and I believe the author is a member here. I also read Dolans response and I don't think he defended himself too well in my opinion.

The Corso book was co authored by Bill Birnes.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 12:30 PM
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I am so happy to see views from so many different people, whether or not it be opposed to mine I appreciate all of this dialog it intrigues me. I have already told my side of this discussion and from reading everyone elses responses it seems that everyone pretty much believes alien life exists but the big question is whether or not they are visiting us. Please go on, I am interested to see where this goes..



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 



Well by that same token so does the TPTB, so I guess it falls on the veracity of the documents and once again, how can there be a scientific approach when all the cards appear to be held by those in the know.


When cards are held by someone in the know....sometimes the cards are worthless. Bluffing power comes from having a lot more chips than the guy that doesn't. People with a lot of chips will bluff many more times than someone with fewer chips. I'm not sure how that relates to what you are saying but since you are using playing card analogies...



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by UnknownKnower
Please go on, I am interested to see where this goes..


usually someone try's to get a dig in on Oberg, then Jim provides some good links to back up what his point is and then guys like me come along and kiss Jim's butt...oh wait, that just happened didn't it? I think the thread is finished....
edit on 10-6-2013 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2013 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 



Well by that same token so does the TPTB, so I guess it falls on the veracity of the documents and once again, how can there be a scientific approach when all the cards appear to be held by those in the know.


When cards are held by someone in the know....sometimes the cards are worthless. Bluffing power comes from having a lot more chips than the guy that doesn't. People with a lot of chips will bluff many more times than someone with fewer chips. I'm not sure how that relates to what you are saying but since you are using playing card analogies...


Possibly, but when you have people(military and civilian) all over the world seeing and experiencing things that have no rational/prosaic explanation, then I'd say it cuts down what cards are being held



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by UnknownKnower
 

If the alienheads weren't so good at covering their tracks and our government wasn't assisting the cover-up then we probably wouldn't be trying to deny it. This all assumes we're not crazy.

It could be that humans are mostly crazy and that's why we have these myths and legends. I don't reject the possibility, even though there's quite a bit of anecdotal evidence for ET. Anybody can dig through UFO history and find thousands of cases with good records on the details.

We do not have proof. As I already stated, that could be because the alienheads and government are really good at sweeping it all away. Or maybe it's not there, yes?

One other thing I want to say is WE couldn't cover this up alone. We NEED the alien things. Humans, by and large, are too clumsy to hide this alone. Things would leak out too fast.

Ok, so now that I'm done talking about all that....

I think there's a very good chance of life elsewhere. I've mentioned what I think in many posts, but there're just so many planets and moons and comets and dwarf planets and rogue planets. Seriously, if you try to count this stuff, you will get a headache. I doubt they're all sterile.

(i'm not lying you know... 200+ sextillion stars in the observable universe... 100's of billions of rogue planets in/near our galaxy... a couple billion earth analogs and many more billions of super earths in our galaxy... how many moons do you thinik there're? There're 160+ moons in our solar system.)
edit on 10-6-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 





Simply put, religion and the alien question ought to have as little to do with each other as is possible, and that is because without clear degrees of seperation nothing of any worth will be learned in the event that our species ever contacts another.


In my opinion, you can't separate the two entirely.

The Bible made it clear that God created spirit entities before he created man.

These spirit entities are capable of transforming and disguising themselves to appear as any type of species you want. They are capable of appearing and disappearing at will. They are able to manipulate material objects. They have always been here, but they don't want you to know who they really are. They want you to believe that they are something that they are not.

They are fallen angels and demons.

I know the die-hard UFO fans don't want to believe that, but it's all been laid out for us for thousands of years.

This is why there is never any "proof" or "hard evidence".

All you have to do is visit the "Gray Area" on ATS and read some of the threads from people who have practiced esoterics, mysticism and magick. A lot of them would consider themselves to be abductees in their lifetime, I guarantee it.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


Sometimes pocket 4s can look like pocket aces. Many players significantly over value their cards. Pocket 10s will most likely be beat if a king queen or ace come out on the flop. So what "appears" significant, may not be.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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...i read the whole topic, saw a few interesting comments /shrug

aliens = demons



Simply put, religion and the alien question ought to have as little to do with each other as is possible, and that is because without clear degrees of seperation nothing of any worth will be learned in the event that our species ever contacts another.

the vatican is in the process of (officially) getting "on board" with all this "alien" stuff
do.you.realise.what.this.means?


..i'd post a link but too busy helping a blind orphan cross the road
edit on 10-6-2013 by UNIT76 because: i don't know.. can i say that? no? cause i musta had a reason, right? hehe.. sandimashighschoolfootballteamrules!!!1



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by UnknownKnower
 



Why are we still questioning whether alien life exists or not if we have all this evidence of it from thousands of people throughout the years? Why haven't we already acknowledged that we are not alone and we are not the most intelligent. Why must we still be in denial? It makes absolutely no sense to me.


I'd have to look at numerous polls (as they change the results all the time, based on how it was surveyed), but I still have to think that most scientists are pretty open to the idea of other intelligent life in the Universe. Even more are open to other life being out there. Indeed, it may even be in our own solar system. (other, non-intelligent life)

The real problem for most, is whether or not they've come here. Since such means would have to violate (or at least skirt around) most of our commonly accepted ideas about physics and space travel, they'd have to have some extremely advanced tech to do so. (some even feel it simply isn't possible, even while accepting the idea of other sentients sprinkled out there).

As for evidence, we have lots of it, but all at varying degrees of reliability. In addition, we have a lot of scam artists and just out and out nutters, who really cloud and taint that evidence also. It is even well documented that the government fostered this aura of ridicule, even while secretly doing their own investigations. Of course, whether it was to cover up alien visitors or their own top secret aircraft (or both), is anyone's guess.

Personally, I feel there is enough good evidence to claim we have been visited. However, I don't feel it is conclusive enough to state that as a matter of fact. The government and military's own actions actually offer some of the best evidence. In their efforts to hide events, etc., they often end up drawing more attention (or did, early on) to things they could have covered up much easier. Why deny it? Because we still lack the smoking gun, the one thing that will show everyone, without a doubt, that we are not alone, and we are being visited.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by UnknownKnower
For my first thread post this will be a bit shorter than most but I believe the one question I have already posed suffices for the topic I would discuss. I really just have one question. Why are we still questioning whether alien life exists or not if we have all this evidence of it from thousands of people throughout the years? Why haven't we already acknowledged that we are not alone and we are not the most intelligent. Why must we still be in denial? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I mean if we were to think about things such as the sun being the center of the solar system. This was not believed to be true a while back and if you said it was true then you were completely crazy and wrong. With obvious evidence supporting the fact that the sun is the center of the solar system being found, how long did it take people to finally admit that it was in fact the center. Why were people blatantly denying it, despite the clear evidence. This is my exact argument for what I said at the beginning, why are we still denying alien life exists...?


I think it is because in part it is still a taboo subject, for example if I declared in work openly that I believed ET existed there would still be those who thought I was off my rocker. And if I started to go into more of the exotic discussions about ET I would be asked to shut up and discuss it outside work time. After 60 or so years of being rubbed in that UFOS = mental instability etc is it no surprise that people don't speak out more. The veil is slowly lifting but it will take time. Its one thing to talk about Hollywood movie aliens but another to hold a serious debtate on the subject.

I cant wait for the time when it is plastered all over the news and I can turn round to those who had me sized up as weird and say I told you so.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 03:51 PM
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No 100% proof. Otherwise please present it. I look forward to your reply.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by Jefferton
No 100% proof. Otherwise please present it. I look forward to your reply.


Or... Great! So alien life exists but we have no proof.... Ahhh... now what? What's changed?



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by UnknownKnower
reply to post by HomerinNC
 


Why deny they are visiting us? When there's so much evidence that says otherwise. Sure the evidence is left up to speculation but every type of evidence is up to speculation until someone deems it a fact... Im wondering when will someone decide to declare it as a fact...


Show me this evidence you claim that has come from thousands of people over the years, that proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that leaves no questions, no possible explanation besides intelligent alien life visiting us.....

Just because you desperately want to believe that it is true, doesn't mean that it is true.
Just because you desperately want all those sightings to be the real thing, doesn't mean that any of them are.


I'm not saying that intelligent life doesn't exist beyond our own tiny planet.
What I'm saying is, is that there is no credible proof available that proves that intelligent life exists and is visiting our planet.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by UnknownKnower
 


I think there is a Few major reasons for it. 1. We as humans are extremely Egotistical. The smartest people, the ones who answer the big questions still don't pay attention to history. We knew the earth was Flat, We knew we were the center of the Universe, ect. ect. Even thou they know that tomorrow can bring a Revelation that changes they way we view our world, they act like they have the Final answers now. Since they don't believe in a God they give their answer... Using telescopes they claim their are Billions of stars in our galaxy & Billions of galaxies, they spread Millions of light years apart and all started from the "Big Bang" So they have the answer to LIFE itself.

2. This one is of God. People believe God created us & everything we see. They use the same stuff we use for Ufology.. Accounts, ancient drawings, modern sightings & cases. their modern cases are Aberrations, Signs, quoting prophecy from their Holy Book, be it the Bible or Quran ect.... So they have all the answers.

3. Are people who just want to live in the Comfortable Box that they are accustom too. A decent job, a social life.. Facebook or actually going out somewhere will do, The New I-Phone, Reality t.v, meaningless gossip of what Kim Kardashians babies name will be ect. ect. They don't care about where we came from, or if there is more to life. They don't even acknowledge how bad the World is getting. Economy, collapsing society, weather changes, war ect. The mere fact that We are here, living on a big round rock that floats in space, surrounded by billions more like it should make you wonder. They take Reality & the Amazing Fact that we are alive for granted.



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