What would archaeologists in 10,000 AD think of Lieutenant Ninnis?

This thread that makes you an archaeologist from the year 10,000 AD.

You are on site (in this year you have the technology of our present day) you have found coming out of the melting ice of Carithinazy (what we call the Antarctic) the frozen body of a human, along with a peculiar contrivance, filled with oddities and some animals you recognise as a type of dog, known to you from fossils and representations in art from the previous civilizations that once covered earth some 8,000 years ago.



So how did Lieutenant Belgrave Edward Sutton Ninnis, Royal Fusiliers (22 January 1887 – 14 December 1912) end up being found melting out of a receding snow pack 8,000 years in the future?



His demise was recorded, unfortunately all knowledge of the languages of the early human civilization one (as it is known to archaeologists of 10,000 AD) has been lost, but we'll set the back scene for you, from a diary kept that day Dr. Xavier Mertz a Swiss ski expert with two doctorates one in law and the other in glacier geology.

Setting: 1912 December the snow fields of Antarctica

.......I couldn't see Ninnis, so I stopped to have a better look. Mawson turned round to know the reason I was looking behind me. He immediately jumped out of his sledge, and rushed back. When he nodded his head, I followed him, driving back his sledge.

The third man on the expedition Douglas Mawson was an Australian geologist continued the narrative

Ninnis, his sledge and dog team had fallen through a crevasse 3.4 m wide with straight, ice walls. On a ledge deep in the hole, Mawson and Mertz could see the bodies of two dogs—one still alive, but seriously injured—and the remains of Ninnis' sledge. There was no sign of their companion.They measured the distance to the ledge as 46 m, too far for our ropes to reach. "Dog ceased to moan shortly", wrote Mawson in his diary that night. "We called and sounded for three hours, then went a few miles to a hill and took position observations. Came back, called & sounded for an hour. Read the burial service."

So as a well informed archaeologist in the future, and not able to read what might have been written about this (if the records even survived), how do you explain Ninnis presence in a place 'known' to have no human or plant life in times past?

Speculate !

Archeology is a bit more advanced then what I think you're giving it credit for. For one thing, they use forensics to determine a lot about the history of the body, beyond where they find it. They look at their belongings to see where they were produced, what they were made from, even where the raw materials originated. they study the fabrics of the clothing, and even the pollen that they find on those fabric strands. They inspect the contents of the gut to tell what the diet was, and where that originated from. They look at any disease that he had, and where he might have come in contact with it.... and much...much...more.

reply to post by Hanslune
I would think he was clumbsy.

reply to post by defcon5


No offence, but I think Hanslune hass a decent grasp of archaelogy.

I imagine along with his body they would find remains of the sled and dogs. They would probably be able to deduce he was an explorer, and knowing what the climate was like at the time, how he died.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


I too would think that he is an explorer or someone traveling. And he had fallen down a crevice with his dogs then they too would be found. All bodies would have some type of injury to them further telling me (the archaeologist) that these new finds had met their demise through accident or maybe even foul play. I would have to do further studies to come to an intelligent conclusion.

This world as we know it will never see 10,000 A.D., because we'll drive ourselves into extinction with our wars, greed and destruction of our environment.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
This world as we know it will never see 10,000 A.D., because we'll drive ourselves into extinction with our wars, greed and destruction of our environment.

Thank you for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion. Don't know what we would do here without you. The whole post hypohesizes a what if, making your post that much meaningless.

reply to post by Hanslune


Wouldn't the materials and gear he had with him give a clue as to why he was there and what the environment was.

The dogs and harness would say a lot about the travel distances.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
This world as we know it will never see 10,000 A.D., because we'll drive ourselves into extinction with our wars, greed and destruction of our environment.

Thank you for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion. Don't know what we would do here without you. The whole post hypohesizes a what if, making your post that much meaningless.

My contribution is this: It's pointless to make suppositions about 10,000 years from now when tomorow isn't here yet. Now you may consider it meaningless, i don't really care, but life is hard enough living from one day to the next and worrying about 10,000 years down the road when we're all going to be dead truly is meaningless.

reply to post by grubblesnert


Thanks for the replies

A 2005 accident of the same type

A crevasse is covered or bridge over with snow and only breaks when you are on it, more unlucky that anything else.
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reply to post by defcon5

 

No offence, but I think Hanslune hass a decent grasp of archaelogy.

I imagine along with his body they would find remains of the sled and dogs. They would probably be able to deduce he was an explorer, and knowing what the climate was like at the time, how he died.

The thread is to generate replies, I use to use it in introductory courses, mainly to determine who knew what

Thanks but its just a tad
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
This world as we know it will never see 10,000 A.D., because we'll drive ourselves into extinction with our wars, greed and destruction of our environment.

Didn't read the thread now did you? lol, it basis is that the our civilization collapsed and the people finding Ninnis are from our follow on civilizations that we've rebuilt

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Originally posted by Wertdagf

Wouldn't the materials and gear he had with him give a clue as to why he was there and what the environment was.

The dogs and harness would say a lot about the travel distances.

Ah a thinking man! Good response
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

My contribution is this: It's pointless to make suppositions about 10,000 years from now when tomorow isn't here yet. Now you may consider it meaningless, i don't really care, but life is hard enough living from one day to the next and worrying about 10,000 years down the road when we're all going to be dead truly is meaningless.

Its never pointless to think about the future any more than it is pointless to think about the pass

D- and a recommendation you go into the mortuary business ; ]

Thanks for your comment

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Wouldn't the materials and gear he had with him give a clue as to why he was there and what the environment was.

The dogs and harness would say a lot about the travel distances.

I'm not sure what it could it say about the travel distances. Or do you mean something as opposed to say a walking leash? That's the only thing I can come up with, so please elaborate if you can?

I think I would read up on all those past civilizations that might have records on for any mention of traveling such distances on a expedition for example, considering there is a dog with him and knowing from art work etc I would have to think he was some sort of explorer and even speculate on the relationship between man and dog if no ideas had already been brought forward.

If no history remained, would have to look into any mythology of some kind of god traveling great distances with a dragon like animal to the end of the earth of course!

reply to post by Hanslune


I can see a scenario similar to that of Ozzi the Iceman. He would be identified as a traveler, and most of the technology could be understood and reproduced. But his history would certainly be lost.

Quite an interesting little thought experiment. Note that it doesn't require the collapse of civilization, since we're losing this information as more information overwrites it. It would possibly be VERY difficult to uncover and read that knowledge 10,000 years from now.

Originally posted by Sparta
I think I would read up on all those past civilizations that might have records on for any mention of traveling such distances on a expedition for example, considering there is a dog with him and knowing from art work etc I would have to think he was some sort of explorer and even speculate on the relationship between man and dog if no ideas had already been brought forward.

If no history remained, would have to look into any mythology of some kind of god traveling great distances with a dragon like animal to the end of the earth of course!

Yes the records would be the key but to make this more interesting the 10k AD civilization had lost the knowledge of the first Civilisation's languages.

Hi Hans,

First off we have to ask if there have been any major changes in climate in the intervening years, if not then a human presence in Antarctica would be plainly evident. The extreme aridity would have preserved the multitude of modern science stations and the equipment left behind will last for many millenia.
And aside from A planet wide extinction level event, which is very possible, we will have cultural continuity well into the future

Originally posted by punkinworks10
Hi Hans,

First off we have to ask if there have been any major changes in climate in the intervening years, if not then a human presence in Antarctica would be plainly evident. The extreme aridity would have preserved the multitude of modern science stations and the equipment left behind will last for many millenia.
And aside from A planet wide extinction level event, which is very possible, we will have cultural continuity well into the future

I would say if he was melting out of the Antarctic ice cap, yep that the earth had continued the warming trend.

Stations, I would (making stuff up) that in '2032 the Antarctic Pristine Society' managed to end all human interference on that continent and by 2064 all traces of human's had been cleared away, leaving just robotic weather stations which were bio degradable.....

I didn't want to touch on why the 10K AD civilization didn't have much information on us as that is an entirely different topic but we can go with environmental collapse and lethal bio weapons released during a war which killed off 99.9999999% percent of humanity the only survivors being the Sentinelese people.

reply to post by Hanslune


Aye, so we have no records to refer to, and a lone note left by the frozen man in a language that cannot be read anymore. Byrd speaks my mind, defiantly would be a Oz the Iceman situation, although more mysterious considering he has a note, all we could really do is explore the area more for any other left over and speculate on what he was doing with what he was found with to come up with some base setting for the dude.

Although I must ask, for the story is the fella found in the ice from our timeline here and now? or is he somebody from say the year 3000? or possibly later?

Originally posted by Byrd
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I can see a scenario similar to that of Ozzi the Iceman. He would be identified as a traveler, and most of the technology could be understood and reproduced. But his history would certainly be lost.

Quite an interesting little thought experiment. Note that it doesn't require the collapse of civilization, since we're losing this information as more information overwrites it. It would possibly be VERY difficult to uncover and read that knowledge 10,000 years from now.

Yes similar to Ozzi (but written before his discovery) I would have used him as he had a lot more useful information and was real life

reply to post by Hanslune


Hmm ,
99.9999% depopulation,
With only the sentinalese and presumably the nicobari surviving. I would put their level of development fairly low , as the people of the forgotten islands are hardly sociable, and have made no appreciable social development in the last 25,000 years or more.
Since they made to Antarctica I would put their society at a late medieval to early renaissance level, anything beyond that would be astounding.
So, I say they would be confounded by this iceman.
I'd say they would be able to tell that he'd traveled from some far away land, by the array of materials found on site.
His wool uniform would traced back to Australia/Tasmania/New Zealand, because sheep and goats would be "native" to those lands, as the populations would have exploded then crashed in the absence of humans, this would clearly stand out in the archeological record.
But they would be dumbfounded by the various woods in his kit, none of which are native to the southern hemisphere, in fact his kit includes stuff from all over the world, hich they would have no way to explain.
They would do rudimentary studies that indicate through stratigraphy, he might have been buried there for 30k years or more based on his level in the ice.
Oh he would be characterized as a "giant" due to his impressive stature, remember the sentinalese are pygmies.
He would be thought of as a "Giant travelling shaman/warrior# who travelled the globe before being buried in the ice 30k years ago.

reply to post by punkinworks10


Good speculation and application of present technique, other than dating, on your part. A new civilization based on those people would certainly be different from ours - good topic for a series of sci-fi books I think.