General lack of intestinal fortitude.

Image based gutlessness:
So... theres been a massive bombardment in Syria, and there are massive numbers of dead. The people who live through it have seen terrible things, some of them may be short a limb or two, and but for the presence of one or two hardcore journalists, and citizens with cameras and sat linked internet connections, no one would know...

And people think there is some justification for editing the images that come out of the region at the time? Or choosing only the least bloody ones to display? The entire reason to veiw ANY image data from a region torn apart by devastation is to bear witness, and it means NOTHING unless you are prepared to view it as it IS, rather than as we would like it to be. To veiw anything less than the full weight of these horrors serves no purpose what so ever.

Another thing that bugs me about the way image data is assessed and reacted to, is that without totally honest display of such image data as is available, people who have a passing interest in things like forensics have no oppertunity to study the grim reality of death, the effects of serious trauma on the human anatomy. To be of any use what so ever, photographic evidence must be unedited, and the decision of wether or not to post or display it ought to be made on its value, in terms of wether anything useful might be discerned from it, not wether it meets the utterly pointless requirements of what we foolishly like to refer to as decency. We refer the reality of the anatomical process as "gore", which is entirely unhelpful.

Reality may be dependant on perception, according to psychologists and so on, but if one refuses to perceive what is right in front of thier face, because it displeases them, discomforts them, then perception becomes unreliable, and the entire structure of the collective conciousness dissolves into nothing more than platitudes, spoken from mouths which have nothing behind them. No mind, no real emotion. Everything becomes grey, because of rose coloured spectacles.

Political gutlessness:
There have been some startling revalations about the way various intelligence agencies, with NSA at the top of the pile, have been gaining access to the personal data of anyone they fancy, since 2008. There are people actually supporting this travesty, and I for one am having a hard time squaring that in my head. Reasons as stated for the support this PRISM operation has received, seem to be centred around fear. Fear of terrorists, fear of China, fear of thier own shadows...

How can anyone fear anything enough, that they would give up not just thier own rights, but the rights of thier fellow man? How can anyone feel that fear justifies them in becoming so pathetic, as to allow thier government and its agencies the freedom to interefere with thier personal data? Did my grandfathers waste thier time when they added the strength of thier bodies, and the power of thier wits to the battle against the Nazis? It certainly feels like it! It feels like many people are prepared to just accept this PRISM crap as yet another tool in the fight against the terrorist.

The creation of such a tool however, is no victory. For a start, it hasnt ended any threat, Boston still managed to suffer two explosions, there have been masses of mass shootings, crazed gunmen, and so on, and regarding the GCHQ link, obviously its doing a bang up job of catching the bad guys. Two men can run down an armed forces member, then cut him to ribbons in broad daylight, and I didnt notice any black towncars full of suits roaring up to protect him.

In reality, I couldnt give a god damn about the things that DONT happen, I care only about what does happen, and all that really happens, that anyone can be sure of, that I can be informed of, is that the data of anyone who doesnt agree with his government can be monitored, his thoughts and feelings recorded, quantified, analysed, without warrant or probable cause of even the weakest quality.

AND MANY DO NOT EVEN MIND!! I could not be more furious about an item of news. I am literally at the point where, in order to do things like type this thread out, for instance, I have to concentrate hard to unclench my fists enough to strike the keyboard correctly. I am on the very cusp of kicking the proverbial rear end off of something, perferably something that will scream about it to let me know I am doing it right. Thats not me! Thats not what I want to be feeling right now!

reply to post by TrueBrit


I agree with you!

Death is NOT blowing away someone on a video game. Death is NOT watching your favorite crime drama unfold.

Violence, murder, and out of control governments ARE death.

The issue you brought up is quite valid. I am familiar with violent deaths and most people are not! They are the ones whom get upset having to look at the type of pics you are (IMO) mentioning. However, they are also the types whom blindly support senseless wars! Wars that their politicians support and due to their normalcy bias and blind political beliefs,,,,,they support as well! It doesn't bother them, because they DON"T have to see what they support!!!

I refuse to look at the kind of pictures you are mentioning! However, I think people whom vote for these criminal, globalist, warmongers should be forced to sit in a room for an hour and actually SEE how their blind support of a war mongering government affects those whom we are TOLD are our enemies.........I think things might change. That is IF we have any time left to change anything.........

I'm beginning to think that mankind has not gained an ounce of civility over the people three thousand years ago. It seems there was a lot of wars that started abound three thousand years ago and military might has been increasing ever since. It would have been nice to live four thousand years ago, before the power hungry took over. Seems like it may have been a lot less violent before capitalism and consumerism were created.

Originally posted by seeker1963
I refuse to look at the kind of pictures you are mentioning! However, I think people whom vote for these criminal, globalist, warmongers should be forced to sit in a room for an hour and actually SEE how their blind support of a war mongering government affects those whom we are TOLD are our enemies.........I think things might change. That is IF we have any time left to change anything.........

I'm the same, wont look because I already know what I'll see. And I agree, those who vote should be strapped in a chair and forced to view the un-edited version.

s & f bud true so true the average person does not want to see any bad images .
they turn their heads or just say turn it over

reply to post by seeker1963


reply to post by rickymouse

reply to post by VoidHawk


reply to post by billdadobbie


Thanks for your responses folks.

I know there are some people out there, and those here at ATS who have already seen enough, who have been close when death has struck someone. But for the rest of us, as part of the denial of ignorance, and frankly, so that we KNOW what is being done, often in OUR names, we owe it to the dead and the dying to be realistic about what is happening to them.

Obviously I am not suggesting a fetishistic approach to the veiwing of such material, but I find it hard to see how we can honestly say that we are affected, if ALL we see is a coffin, unless of course one happens to be the sort of whimsical, metaphorically sensitive type.

And its refreshing to know I am not the only one getting brassed off with the whole PRISM thing.

seen far too much of it in this lifetime ... and put back together more bodies than I can remember ... it should be mandatory viewing for all the idiots who have the misguided idea that wars and violence are the way to solve problems ... will refrain from further comment as would end up severely violating many t&c's ...

apologies.. double post ...

reply to post by TrueBrit


First I want to say I gave you a star and a flag and I usually don't do that for a rant. I agree with you and I usually don't do that either. I'm going to try and answer some of the "whys" you asked even if they were rhetorical.

but if one refuses to perceive what is right in front of thier face, because it displeases them, discomforts them, then perception becomes unreliable

You can't MAKE someone care, period. No matter what you do or say there are large numbers of people who, if it doesn't directly affect them, then they will ignore it regardless of content. Plus "News" is a business that needs sponsors. If you put video of heads with brains spilled out on the 6pm news broadcast there are going to be 1000's of parents screaming that their children saw that on TV. At which point sponsors with pull ads because of complaints and the "news" will have no revenue stream. Bye Bye news.

How can anyone fear anything enough, that they would give up not just thier own rights, but the rights of thier fellow man?

That line made me laugh out loud, it is the VERY argument that has been made when a group of people want to ban 30 round magazines and certain firearms.


Anyway as far as sanitizing war and it's images, I believe it all started when FIGHTING wars became sanitized. Before, whole cities were carpet bombed to destroy one factory, now one bomb with GPS guided targeting can be put through a single window of a single building. Until the late 20th century wars were brutal and were fought with very little rules.

Now wars have rules and limits and with them we lost finality. War should be so horrific and disgusting it should be only undertaken as an absolute last resort. But now war isn't treated that way and war has no end. If there is no loser there is no victory and with no victor there is no end.

And as far as the Government spying, well right now there aren't enough people that care because we have had an entire generation taught in government schools not to question authority. And when 11 million people are getting food stamps from the same government that is spying on them, well what do you expect them to do, not eat?

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by TrueBrit

 

First I want to say I gave you a star and a flag and I usually don't do that for a rant. I agree with you and I usually don't do that either. I'm going to try and answer some of the "whys" you asked even if they were rhetorical.

Well, thanks for stepping out of the comfort zone in that way Carreau! I dont think my questions were really rhetorical though. I am desperately trying to understand these things, because I honestly cannot understand how people get through the day, by living with thier eyes closed and thier mouths open. No matter how much I watch it happening, how closely I observe these things, all I can see is that they happen, but I do not understand why.

You can't MAKE someone care, period. No matter what you do or say there are large numbers of people who, if it doesn't directly affect them, then they will ignore it regardless of content. Plus "News" is a business that needs sponsors. If you put video of heads with brains spilled out on the 6pm news broadcast there are going to be 1000's of parents screaming that their children saw that on TV. At which point sponsors with pull ads because of complaints and the "news" will have no revenue stream. Bye Bye news.

Do the people that do not care, and the parents who care too much, realise that they are destroying the human mind by thier actions I wonder? Would THAT matter to them either?And of course yes, the corperate news media. What with most of my television news comming from the BBC, I easily forget that the other networks rely largely on advertising revenue and sponsors for thier weather and sports segments. If it isnt sexy, it doesnt sell. I can understand that to a degree, sadly.

That line made me laugh out loud, it is the VERY argument that has been made when a group of people want to ban 30 round magazines and certain firearms.

See, even as a British citizen who prefers blades to bullets in near enough any possible scenario, I still cannot understand the mentality that dictates that thier rights outweigh someone elses. Either everyone has equal rights, or no one has any, and therefore has equal rights. The only choice is wether everyone has them or no one does. Fart arsing about in the middle makes a horrible mess somewhere along the line.

Anyway as far as sanitizing war and it's images, I believe it all started when FIGHTING wars became sanitized. Before, whole cities were carpet bombed to destroy one factory, now one bomb with GPS guided targeting can be put through a single window of a single building. Until the late 20th century wars were brutal and were fought with very little rules.

Now wars have rules and limits and with them we lost finality. War should be so horrific and disgusting it should be only undertaken as an absolute last resort. But now war isn't treated that way and war has no end. If there is no loser there is no victory and with no victor there is no end.

In my opinion, war is MORE disgusting now than it has ever been. The line between war for profit and war for righteous cause has been danced all over for years, but its only now, in the information age, where so many people, can be so well informed about its real causes, and still fail to give a god damn either way. It drives me pretty mad. I would like to think my grandfathers fought for a better future than this is all I can say on that matter.

And as far as the Government spying, well right now there aren't enough people that care because we have had an entire generation taught in government schools not to question authority. And when 11 million people are getting food stamps from the same government that is spying on them, well what do you expect them to do, not eat?

edit on 10-6-2013 by Carreau because: sp

edit on 10-6-2013 by Carreau because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2013 by Carreau because: (no reason given)

No, I dont expect people to starve themselves, but I do expect them to be out in the streets, waving banners, marching on thier local federal offices, or in the case of Britain, thier councils and the capital. I have tried to organise a little jaunt myself, but no one is biting. Its like mankind has just crawled up its own fundament to die over this, and it makes me physically sick.

reply to post by TrueBrit


An even simpler way of putting it is Freedom is hard work and requires sacrifice and being told what to do is easier. Too many people are not up to the task of working for freedom so we get the situation we have now of rampant apathy.

reply to post by Carreau


So thats it then? We are done for in every important way? I dont know how to swallow that. While I figure out how to digest that ray of sunshine, I am going to go to my friends house, and do something productive, like feed thier hamster, take in the mail, and water thier plants while they do whatever couples do when they are away from home for more than twenty four hours at a time.

Thanks for your input on this, its given me alot to think about.

I'm beginning to think that mankind has not gained an ounce of civility over the people three thousand years ago. It seems there was a lot of wars that started abound three thousand years ago and military might has been increasing ever since. It would have been nice to live four thousand years ago, before the power hungry took over. Seems like it may have been a lot less violent before capitalism and consumerism were created.

..from what you've described, i see a huge intricate tree... a lot of it is ugly, but in amongst all that mess are some rare blooms.. i think this is what it's all been about.. i think those flowers will ultimately send their seeds out into the universe..

reply to post by TrueBrit


Totally agree.

The only thing worse is when you hear the boiler plate garbage 'the following images may be too graphic for some viewers'.

Nonsense.

Humans have lived for thousands of years, face to face with death and destruction on a daily basis. Why all of a sudden does the MSM believe we will all go into cardiac arrest upon viewing the same? Simple: it's control. If you don't see it, it's not happening.

reply to post by ABNARTY


You think the government and media coddling is some sort of "keep em meek, then weed out the weak" kind of deal? I suppose thats possible. At the moment, I am going to be having a hard time DISBELIEVING any bad word said about any government.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Coddling, maybe. Control, definitely. Pictures/videos are more powerful than words. If you are trying to control the message, imagery is critical. Think of it as a lie of omission on the part of the government.