The New War in Britain is starting...EDL peaceful protest attacked by UAF and Muslims not covered i

Originally posted by symptomoftheuniverse

i said we as in here and now,unless your 1500 years old you cant say "we"

"We" didn't let muslim immigrants in either, unless you're a lot older than me.

But my point is that characterising a whole religious group as child rapists is a pretty crazy allegation.

A few posts back someone was saying don't make sweeping statements but then used sweeping statements in order to attack the EDL!

It is this DOUBLE STANDARDS in such arguments that really upsets me.

People are saying 'I'm sure there are a few good people, BUT...' or 'this may be peaceful, BUT....' ... how disrespectful to those who actually do have legitimate thoughts/ opinions on such subjects! I even read earlier that you can't be intelligent if you do support such groups...! Do we really have to go there? Are we really that childish?!

I enjoy the opinions of all groups, I think it's healthy to do so.... pigeon holing just makes it easier to discredit something legitimate.

Originally posted by tanser
A few posts back someone was saying don't make sweeping statements but then used sweeping statements in order to attack the EDL!

It is this DOUBLE STANDARDS in such arguments that really upsets me.

People are saying 'I'm sure there are a few good people, BUT...' or 'this may be peaceful, BUT....' ... how disrespectful to those who actually do have legitimate thoughts/ opinions on such subjects! I even read earlier that you can't be intelligent if you do support such groups...! Do we really have to go there? Are we really that childish?!

I enjoy the opinions of all groups, I think it's healthy to do so.... pigeon holing just makes it easier to discredit something legitimate.

It's not a double standard at all. It is patently absurd to lump together 1.2 billion people who just happen to share a religion as being extremists. But it is not at all inaccurate to describe voluntary membership of a group like the EDL as the activity of someone who, at the very least, doesn't exactly have a nuanced idea of what's going on.

reply to post by tanser


The intelligent folks who have carefully considered matters and have salient points in support of the EDL's stated aims are probably looking for ways to engage actual politics and affect actual change, rather than stomping around cities with large Muslim populations shouting about 'Pakis' as is usually the EDL solution.

You can't hope to be taken seriously as a political movement if you have nothing to contribute to the debate, and most of the EDL types simply don't - just like most of their radical Muslim and UAF opponents.

There's no double standard there, is there?

Originally posted by tanser
A few posts back someone was saying don't make sweeping statements but then used sweeping statements in order to attack the EDL!

Quotes or it didn't happen.

Originally posted by KingIcarus
as is usually the EDL solution.

There's no double standard there, is there?

Why is there no double standard? You've presumed the minority are the majority in EDL (unintelligent), like someone said earlier that the EDL are making the presumption about the majority of Muslims are terrorists.

Yet one viewpoint is always portrayed to be morally superior.

I do agree though, whatever the name they hide behind, the motives are as such.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

"lump together 1.2 billion people who just happen to share a religion as being extremists."

"doesn't exactly have a nuanced idea of what's going on"

Correct.

Originally posted by tanser

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

"lump together 1.2 billion people who just happen to share a religion as being extremists."

"doesn't exactly have a nuanced idea of what's going on"

Correct.

where has anyone said all muslims are peodophiles? Silly detracters or if your american detractors.

reply to post by Horus12


Racism is not specific just to race. Among others it can be based on, economic, ethic and religious grouping..

Could the OP (or anyone else out there) explain why the English Defence League pledge allegiance to the flag of a country known as Israel?

Doesn't sound very English to me. They sound more like a Zionist movement operating at street level under the guise of an army of football 'supporters'.

Where does all their money come from? The vast majority of their supporters are unemployed football fans. Oh yeah, it comes from Israel and Zionist movements in the U.S.

Perhaps they should come out of the closet.

The problem in European countries especially, is cultural and religious tensions are aggravated by growing numbers of immigrants from Islamic countries moving into countries that have a long and steep Christian tradition that dates back thousands of years.

Christianity denies all other religions as false religions, as does Islam. Having the two mixed up in a country that is already struggling with extreme social issues such as unemployment is a recipe for disaster.

Although the far right EDL groups actions aren't at all ideal, they are in fact in my opinion justified. The reason for their justification lies in the groups name ("English DEFENCE league"). They are defending their sovereign country from a foreign influence that is starting to cause harm on the innocent. At the end of the day, the minorities are only protected by our lenient human rights laws and international laws that protect not just refugee's but every single man, woman and child regardless of religion or skin colour.

Let's take the case that happened in Woolwich, London but spin it on to the other foot, if it was a Christian that committed the murder in a Muslim country, they would be sentenced to death by stoning, or public execution.

The two cultures/religions simply DO NOT match up at all, the type of terrorism we are seeing in our modern world simply did not exist hundreds of years ago due to minimal mixed religious communities that existed.

Race as far as Im aware is based upon ones ethnicity.. to then start claiming it for labeling people who speak out against religion is absurd.

Tried my best to keep away, but............

First of all, let's get thing's straight - Tommy Robinson / Stephen Lennon is a complete and utter tosser who in my mind has absolutely zero credibility.

But I'm curious why we are told he is being insiduous and deceitful when he speaks out and openly condemns attacks on Muslims yet when representatives of bodies like The Muslim Council Of Britain speak out against the murder of Lee Rigby we are told they are being open and honest?

I have absolutely no doubt that those who spoke out against the Woolwich murder were being genuine.
Whilst I may have doubts about Robinson / Lennon I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Acts and deeds.
Let's see if he acts on his words.
And to be fair let's see if those who apparently spoke for the silent majority of Muslims in the aftermath of Lee Rigby's murder actively work to expel the extremists from within their midst.
The same standards should be applied to both.

A lot of EDL are definately moronic idiots.
But Robinson / Lennon for once made some relevant and pertinent points;

"There is a massive undercurrent of anger across this country,"

"Our tactics are completely questionable, yes, and I understand people who say you are going about it the wrong way, but what choice do we have as working class people, who, as soon as you put your head above the parapet, you are called a racist or a fascist?

"Who wants to sit down and talk to us?"

Mainstream politicians have consistently ignored people's concerns over immigration levels and perceived Islamification and if the truth is told have treat the people of this country with utter contempt.
They are actively forcing people towards the extremists, of all political / religious viewpoints.

If I didn't know better I'd suspect it was deliberate.

A common criticism of EDL is that they have no stated goals or objectives.

The group says it wants three things - the government to outline a "convincing strategy" for defeating Islamist extremism, the Muslim community to make "serious efforts" to counter extremism, and an open and honest debate about the issue.

Now don't know about anyone else but I don't see anything radical, extreme, racist, bigotted or hate driven about that.

But of course it doesn't help that whenever EDL meet and demonstrate it seems to be a prerequisite for many to meet in a pub, get pissed and lairy, abusive, sing mainly crap songs and in general be the stereotypical knuckle-dragging dickhead that the media portrays them as.

Many don't partake in this sort of behaviour, but of course that isn't newsworthy.

And whilst I'm on one;
Most Skinheads ARE NOT racist.
Whilst most genuine Casuals may sympathise with EDL objectives, however, they wouldn't be seen anywhere near an EDL march - and as was said earlier, those that do should know better!

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by thePharaoh

 

Yes, Muslims attack people and those damn Jews are to blame. You seriously disgust me.

haaaaaaaaa

calm down... it isnt factual is it

have some salt


BTW - make me a foe... im going for a record! lol

The face of a movement is not the movement. It is a chosen figurehead that TPTB will attack. If there is anything to exploit it will occur.

What happens when a death threat is carried out? Will it take the death of Tommy Robinson or one of his family members for people to wake up.

There was a failed bombing attempt where multiple Muslims were sentenced but there is not coverage. There are marches such as the one in NewCastle recently that showed the common man in England is sick of this. Oppression but the political class and by those who want to 'change' England.

There is NO freedom in Islamic countries. None.



Because they are white, or wear soccer jerseys, they are immediately branded as racists? They want their country to stay the way it has been for years. These are the people who live in England. Either fit in or get out is what I say to Islam. Why should people conform to ideas you 'bring' to a nation that is established.

A man was beheaded in the street and NOTHING has been done about it. Only the populous told that there should be no reprisals. WTF?

Originally posted by TheGreatest
the type of terrorism we are seeing in our modern world simply did not exist hundreds of years ago due to minimal mixed religious communities that existed.

You better tell the people who invented suicide bombing that their issues were based in religion. Although t would be difficult since they were in fact atheist communists, so in fact religious tension isn't the only kind. At all.

Originally posted by esdad71
The face of a movement is not the movement. It is a chosen figurehead that TPTB will attack. If there is anything to exploit it will occur.

In this case the face is a lot better than most of the morons who are in the rank and file. And that's not saying much.

Lennon was specifically recruited by a banker to mobilise a right-wing street protest. This isn't a genuine upsurge of popular opinion, it's a hooligan and a load of his old mates with a sprinkling of genuine fascists, bankrolled by a financier.

What happens when a death threat is carried out? Will it take the death of Tommy Robinson or one of his family members for people to wake up.

The person most likely to kill a member of Lennon's family is probably Lennon, given his penchant for beating his wife.

There was a failed bombing attempt where multiple Muslims were sentenced but there is not coverage.

This is simply untrue. It was on the front page of many major news sources. The coverage was wide and thorough. Why are you pretending it wasn't?

There are marches such as the one in NewCastle recently that showed the common man in England is sick of this. Oppression but the political class and by those who want to 'change' England.

What is the 'common man' sick of? There is widespread opposition to immigration, yes, but to say that it is only islamic immigrants, and to make your 'argument' consist of taking to the streets in Whitechapel and Bow, making Hitler salutes and racist chants, and by attacking schools and mosques - well, it's not just pathetic, it's completely counterproductive as well.

And it's Newcastle by the way.

There is NO freedom in Islamic countries. None.

Really? So people in Tunisia can't, say, use the internet? Turkish women can't drive cars? Libyans can't vote? Are you sure it's 'None' at all?

Because they are white, or wear soccer jerseys, they are immediately branded as racists?

They are branded as racists because they chant racist chants, attack people because of the colour of their skin and make nazi salutes. Or at least a significant number of them do.

They want their country to stay the way it has been for years. These are the people who live in England. Either fit in or get out is what I say to Islam. Why should people conform to ideas you 'bring' to a nation that is established.

I live in London. Describe one single way in which I have been at all affected by islam? One single way I have been made to 'fit in' with it.

A man was beheaded in the street and NOTHING has been done about it. Only the populous told that there should be no reprisals. WTF?

How has 'nothing' been done? The killers are in custody. If by nothing, you mean why aren't muslims being randomly thrown out of the country, then yes, that's true. If you mean that not enough mosques or schools have been burned yet, watch this space. I'm sure you'll get your wish.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


One question that is very important to this thread and your responses? Are you Muslim?

It does not matter if you are but would help me to understand why you are defending a group who beheaded someone in a city street and everyone simply looked on. Correctling spelling is also another great way to show someone does not know what they are talking about how about "NEWCsatLE" Spelling and case are now incorrect.

Tunisia and Libya? These are the free Muslim countries you are talking about?

Tunisia was overthrown in 2011 and is becoming more and more hardline Muslim.

Link

and adding more Islam to the constitution?

Link

or how about beheading of a Christian in the streets?

Link

This is ok with you? One of the smallest nations and this is what happens.

LIBYA -

Really? Libya....I guess Benghazi means nothing right?

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

One question that is very important to this thread and your responses? Are you Muslim?

It's of no importance whatsoever.

It does not matter if you are but would help me to understand why you are defending a group who beheaded someone in a city street and everyone simply looked on.

I'm defending a 'group' who beheaded someone? Show me where I have done that. First, I would never advocate or defend such an action. And second, no 'group' has been shown to be responsible.

Unless you mean that muslims as a group beheaded Lee Rigby. I'll assume you're not saying that as it would be quite fantastically stupid.

Correctling spelling is also another great way to show someone does not know what they are talking about how about "NEWCsatLE" Spelling and case are now incorrect.

I'm aware that you don't know what you're talking about. I corrected you not to be a pedant, but to show that you are talking about things of which you have no direct experience. I've been to Newcastle. Tonight I will be going for a drink in Whitechapel. I suspect I will escape intact.

Tunisia and Libya? These are the free Muslim countries you are talking about?

I didn't say they were free. I said that your characterisation of them as having no freedom at all was baseless. This remains the case.

I imagine you don't know much about what Tunisia and Libya were like pre-revolution. But I imagine you're also the kind of person who thinks a country is free even if there's no voting, just as long as westerners can visit its beaches.

Look, I don't like militant islam. It is responsible for myriad crimes, nearly as many as capitalism. But to characterise all muslims as complicit is just ill-informed. And why haven't you addressed any of my other points and questions?

- do you genuinely think the EDL's tactics are a peaceful upsurge of popular dissent, expressed with restraint?

- do you still claim that the story of the failed islamist bombers who were jailed was not covered by news sources?

- can you describe one single way in which I, as a Londoner apparently surrounded by militant Islam, have had to conform to Islamic social codes, or even had to be affected by them in any way?

- you say (incorrectly) that nothing has been done in the wake of Rigby's murder. What would you have done?

reply to post by JuniorDisco


For some reason even I don't know your post made my day. I hope you have great night.