Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

reply to post by Bilk22

It could be, but they should really know by now. Here is an interesting article that asks the question 'What if Edward Snowden was placed there to be used by a third party?" I disagree with people saying he is stupid, or didn't have a college degree. That statement was corrected in the breaking online article. He is clearly intelligent. And employers break hiring standards for good network savants.

From a newsletter from Jon Rappoport at NoMoreFakeNews.com

By Jon Rappoport
June 10, 2013
www.nomorefakenews.com

First, I'm not doubting the documents Ed Snowden has brought forward. I'm not doubting the illegal reach of the NSA in spying on Americans and the world.

But as to how this recent revelation happened, and whether Ed Snowden's history holds up...I have questions.

Could Snowden have been given extraordinary access to classified info as part of a larger scheme? Could he be a) an honest man and yet b) a guy who was set up to do what he's doing now?

If b) is true, then Snowden fits the bill perfectly. He wants to do what he's doing. He isn't lying about that. He means what he says.

Okay. Let's look at his history as reported by The Guardian.

In 2003, at age 19, without a high school diploma, Snowden enlists in the Army. He begins a training program to join the Special Forces. The sequence here is fuzzy. At what point after enlistment can a new soldier start this training program? Does he need to demonstrate some exceptional ability before Special Forces puts him in that program?

Snowden breaks both legs in a training exercise. He's discharged from the Army. Is that automatic? How about healing and then resuming Army service? Just asking.

If he was accepted in the Special Forces training program because he had special computer skills, then why discharge him simply because he broke both legs?

Circa 2003 (?), Snowden gets a job as a security guard for an NSA facility at the University of Maryland. He specifically wanted to work for NSA? It was just a generic job opening he found out about?

Also in 2003 (?), Snowden shifts jobs. He's now in the CIA, in IT. He has no high school diploma. He's a young computer genius?

In 2007, Snowden is sent to Geneva. He's only 23 years old. The CIA gives him diplomatic cover there. He's put in charge of maintaining computer-network security. Major job. Obviously, he has access to a very wide range of classified documents. Sound a little odd? Again, just asking. He's just a kid. Maybe he has his GED by now. Otherwise, he still doesn't have a high school diploma.

Snowden says that during this period, in Geneva, one of the incidents that really sours him on the CIA is the "turning of a Swiss banker." One night, CIA guys get a banker drunk, encourage him to drive home, the banker gets busted, the CIA guys help him out, then with that bond formed, they eventually get the banker to reveal deep banking secrets to the Agency.

Snowden is this naïve? He doesn't know by now that the CIA does this sort of thing all the time? He's shocked? He "didn't sign up for this?"

In 2009, Snowden leaves the CIA. Why? Presumably because he's disillusioned. It should noted here that Snowden claimed he could do very heavy damage to the entire US intelligence community in 2008, but decided to wait because he thought Obama, just coming into the presidency, might make good changes.

After two years with the CIA in Geneva, Snowden really had the capability to take down the whole US intelligence network, or a major chunk of it? He had that much access to classified data?

Anyway, in 2009, Snowden leaves the CIA and goes to work for a private defense contractor. Apparently, by this time, he knows all about the phony US war in Iraq, and yet he chooses to work for a sector that relentlessly promotes such wars. Go figure.

This defense contractor (unnamed) assigns him to work at an NSA facility in Japan. Surely, Snowden understands what the NSA is. He knows it's a key part of the whole military-intelligence network, the network he opposes.

But he takes the job anyway. Perhaps he's doing it so he can obtain further access to classified data, in advance of blowing a big whistle. Perhaps.

Snowden goes on to work for two private defense contractors, Dell and Booze Allen Hamilton. In this latter job, Snowden is again assigned to work at the NSA.

He's an outsider, but he claims to have so much sensitive NSA data that he can take down the whole US intelligence network in a single day. Hmm.

These are red flags. They raise questions. Serious ones...

Would the third party be another agency, another country or someone who wants to bring the chaos?
My gut is that Edward Snowden is a good guy, but there is an inkling about a planned series of disclosures. Maybe these are the White Hats we hear tell of.

Originally posted by ProfessorT
Edward Snowden is NOT an American hero. I sincerely hope the security services start extradition proceedings and take him back to the US where he can be placed in front of a judge to answer for his actions. The leak of the information to The Guardian was reckless and Mr Snowden should never have breached national security. PRISM is in place for the right reasons - to protect people.

Ditto.... Mr. Snowden is in line for the death penalty IMO......breaching national security on a level this large calls for the strictest penalty possible. EVERYBODY (myself included) who has a Top Secret clearance signs a non-disclosure agreement that states the penalties you face..... he has made his own bed, now he has to lay in it.

Knowing some folks in the government contracting circles, I feel compelled to clear up a couple things.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

He worked for a side contractor, not the big cheese govt. Was inept and unqualified for the real big cheese jobs....

(A) He only worked for Booze-Hamilton for 2.5 months, before that he was NSA, CIA via various jobs for 5 years. He is something like 29 years old.

(B) You have it backwards. The government pays well, but the private contractors pay much better....and they have perks the gov doesn't offer. Snowden was working for Booze-Hamilton in HAWAI and getting paid silly money vs. Less Money in DC/Virginia. When it comes to this work the Gov. get's out-bid by private contractors daily. The fact that he was Private vs. Gov. just means he was good enough where the Gov. could no longer afford him.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

now we know why and his inability to handle classified material only justifies the failings he had trying to work in govt.

He is a very sharp guy and for the role he was in he passed multiple security screenings and interviews. He had the "ability" to handle classified material, but made a choice to disclose this particular material. He also has a storehouse of knowledge that could profoundly damage the intelligence community, but will not be sharing any of that information. This was a specific disclosure and for reasons he felt neccessary despite the risks.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
He will get everything coming to him that he agreed to when he signed the documents to get his job.

His first allegiance is to the Constition and the United States of America. Any documents that require him to undermine or disregard the constitution of the United States is not valid.

reply to post by TinfoilTP

These idealist Ron Pauler types are not gonna save the world. They only make it more dangerous.

Sounds like something John McCain would say.
I couldn't disagree with you more.

Originally posted by RickinVa

Originally posted by ProfessorT
Edward Snowden is NOT an American hero. I sincerely hope the security services start extradition proceedings and take him back to the US where he can be placed in front of a judge to answer for his actions. The leak of the information to The Guardian was reckless and Mr Snowden should never have breached national security. PRISM is in place for the right reasons - to protect people.

Ditto.... Mr. Snowden is in line for the death penalty IMO......breaching national security on a level this large calls for the strictest penalty possible. EVERYBODY (myself included) who has a Top Secret clearance signs a non-disclosure agreement that states the penalties you face..... he has made his own bed, now he has to lay in it.

Gangs really hate snitches.

Originally posted by RickinVa

Ditto.... Mr. Snowden is in line for the death penalty IMO......breaching national security on a level this large calls for the strictest penalty possible. EVERYBODY (myself included) who has a Top Secret clearance signs a non-disclosure agreement that states the penalties you face..... he has made his own bed, now he has to lay in it.

Said the employee who is likely prominently flagged amongst the PRISM filtering algorithims....and I don't fault you for that.

Mr. Snowden served a role that gave him an unusual high altitude view of the survelience. He acknowledges that innapropriate/unconstitutional targeting of Americans amongst individual analysts might happen only a few times in a career, but from his large scale "infra-structure" perspective, he saw it happen more often and with fewer and fewer safeguards, and with superiors encouraging the trend.

If your government demands that you turn a blind eye to the constitution of the United States of America, the foundation of the peoples counter-balance of unchecked power, then your choices are to continue to contribute to that erosion of the constitution, or make the people aware so that democracy may endure whatever the outcome.

reply to post by Indigo5

Well put.
I am happy to give you a star on that post!!!

reply to post by RickinVa

..breaching national security on a level this large calls for the strictest penalty possible

Breaching the constitution on a level this large calls for the strictest penalty possible.....

reply to post by RadicalRebel


Every would be terrorist now knows beyond a shadow of a doubt which social media to avoid to escape early detection.
Many innocent people will be hurt because of his criminal actions, that is the opposite of a hero and no better than a brainwashed suicide bomber.

They need to dig for evidence of this guys ideology, and I am sure it will come out in his trial.

The only people butthurt over this are the legions of idiots who post their personal lives on social media. It's not a diary, its like a supermarket bulletin board. So don't post how much you hate your boss or what you did to the neighbors cat and everything will be alright.

reply to post by DiscreteParticle

Good post. It's basically what I was asking about the situation. I called him a patsy because that implies he was used and not part of the conspiracy. A lot of what was pointed out in that link suggests as much too. Strange times for sure.

@Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

This being may have observed or came upon sensitive information that many CT discuss... In relation human beings being tracked or observed by whatever () oversees.. Of course 1 hopes the if intents were to support find safety or reasonable circumstances one would encounter by revealing sensitive data...

Its understood by some? it seems.. that w/o some of these global overseeing eyes an (I) detected of (I)(I) (I)(I)z? many ignorantly who follow in group think of illumination FOLLOW instead of actual considering EYES in the WI - FI SKY... That many who remain safe would not be so.. And ths is why its understood somewhat that these and other typs of observations occur..

LORD if there was detection of say actual mind reading & altering techs.. What? would some think then. But alas another thread OP..

But for now this data of global observation HAS been covered within many Conspiracy Theory sites outlets so many shouldn't be surprised. It seems some were / ARE caught off guard outside the LAND MASS central of the interest, of how advanced techs really ARE here on EA*RTH...

Just as with Manning, it will be all about how the media spins this... I sincerely hope the American (and global) public wakes up and says "NO MORE!" but I have seen the apathy of too many people who really care less about their privacy. They will drink the kool-aid all too willingly. The government banks on that fact, I can attest.

reply to post by TinfoilTP


you act as if this "revalation" is going to prevent the govt. from continuing down this road, thats kinda silly...

so what if his ideology is revealed as nothing more than a true patriot/american, what about the ideology of those who persecute people who believe in an "open" society and truth.

it would be a different story if the govt. had said "hey, these bad people use facebook/verizon so were gonna watch for a bit"
but instead they pass these secretive laws/programs judges by secret panels/courts...why hide?

people in general have a tendancy to be social and trusting, we all (for the most part) seem to have a desire to be a part of the whole. We want to share our happiness and sadness and anger and frustration with others, so are you saying we should all just retreat into our shells and be the anti-social guy/gal who walks down the street afraid of everyone?
Actions like these by our (any) govt only serve to spread distrust throughout society, do you condone that?

Originally posted by RickinVa
......breaching national security on a level this large calls for the strictest penalty possible. EVERYBODY (myself included) who has a Top Secret clearance signs a non-disclosure agreement that states the penalties you face..... he has made his own bed, now he has to lay in it.

FYI - I am a fan of hunting down leaks that are malicious in nature and undermine the security of the United States. Leaks driven by animosity or financial gain.

We offer whistle-blower protections for federal employees that uncover missappropriated funds, or racial discrimination and other unethical conduct.

In this scenario, an agency has been circumventing the Constitution of the United States of America.

Should he be charged? Yes...the law is the law...AND he should be pardoned and made immune from prosecution so that he may testify to Congress.

By charging him the law of the land remains consistant and future leakers may be pursued on a case-by-case basis...and prosecuted where malice and espionage are involved.

But "we" as "the people" are the final authority in a democracy. And Mr. Snowden took grave risks on OUR behalf to bring this to light where the public may debate it, as it should be in a democracy.

"We".."The People" should have his back...We should demand a Pardon, given the circumstances. A pardon preserves the channels to pursue and prosecute future leakers.

WhiteHouse Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden
LINK

1 thinks many feel helpless in what they can actually do...

illogic logic is the next ... ???phone/tablet/computer sm. tv will sell tremendously

Originally posted by RickinVa

Originally posted by ProfessorT
Edward Snowden is NOT an American hero. I sincerely hope the security services start extradition proceedings and take him back to the US where he can be placed in front of a judge to answer for his actions. The leak of the information to The Guardian was reckless and Mr Snowden should never have breached national security. PRISM is in place for the right reasons - to protect people.

Ditto.... Mr. Snowden is in line for the death penalty IMO......breaching national security on a level this large calls for the strictest penalty possible. EVERYBODY (myself included) who has a Top Secret clearance signs a non-disclosure agreement that states the penalties you face..... he has made his own bed, now he has to lay in it.

Yes but not everybody is that lame that for the sake of the non disclosure agreement and the fear of getting persecuted, is ready to sell his/her soul to the devil. History is made by great man, not by disgusting insects.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by RickinVa

Ditto.... Mr. Snowden is in line for the death penalty IMO......breaching national security on a level this large calls for the strictest penalty possible. EVERYBODY (myself included) who has a Top Secret clearance signs a non-disclosure agreement that states the penalties you face..... he has made his own bed, now he has to lay in it.

Said the employee who is likely prominently flagged amongst the PRISM filtering algorithims....and I don't fault you for that.

Mr. Snowden served a role that gave him an unusual high altitude view of the survelience. He acknowledges that innapropriate/unconstitutional targeting of Americans amongst individual analysts might happen only a few times in a career, but from his large scale "infra-structure" perspective, he saw it happen more often and with fewer and fewer safeguards, and with superiors encouraging the trend.

If your government demands that you turn a blind eye to the constitution of the United States of America, the foundation of the peoples counter-balance of unchecked power, then your choices are to continue to contribute to that erosion of the constitution, or make the people aware so that democracy may endure whatever the outcome.

edit on 10-6-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

I just starred you. I think that is a first.

reply to post by ProfessorT


There is nothing more dangerous than a man who believes he is absolutely correct.

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
Just as with Manning, it will be all about how the media spins this... I sincerely hope the American (and global) public wakes up and says "NO MORE!" but I have seen the apathy of too many people who really care less about their privacy. They will drink the kool-aid all too willingly. The government banks on that fact, I can attest.

I actually feel differently about Manning. Manning leaked a massive document dump of US foriegn policy communications. It seemed an act of general vandalism.

Edward Snowden leaked a specific program that was operating outside of the US Constitution.

Both leaks warrant charges IMO for the sake of consistency. Manning should serve jail time IMO, but nothing outlandish. Snowden should be pardoned as his leak was specific and cited an over-reach in power that has the potential to change the fabric of our democracy. Manning is a vandal, Snowden is a patriot IMO.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
Just as with Manning, it will be all about how the media spins this... I sincerely hope the American (and global) public wakes up and says "NO MORE!" but I have seen the apathy of too many people who really care less about their privacy. They will drink the kool-aid all too willingly. The government banks on that fact, I can attest.

I actually feel differently about Manning. Manning leaked a massive document dump of US foriegn policy communications. It seemed an act of general vandalism.

Edward Snowden leaked a specific program that was operating outside of the US Constitution.

Both leaks warrant charges IMO for the sake of consistency. Manning should serve jail time IMO, but nothing outlandish. Snowden should be pardoned as his leak was specific and cited an over-reach in power that has the potential to change the fabric of our democracy. Manning is a vandal, Snowden is a patriot IMO.

How do we know he hasn't been leaking sensitive stuff to the Chinese for years and this is his way out because they were on to him?

The ideological hero worship he instantly wrapped himself around should make people suspicious. But not around here, bow to your knees and sign the petition lol, deny ignorance indeed.