Obama Should Not Be Impeached - And Surveillance Program Is Legal - Do You Agree?

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posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:02 PM
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Just curious.. How many here feel that Obama should not be Impeached? And does anyone here also feel that the surveillance program is legal and should proceed?

I am wondering just how much the US is in the hole, and if there is any chance of digging it out. So if you feel that the Obama admin. supporting the surveillance program is kewl, I want to hear from you. And also, since you support this, do you feel the constitution should be invalidated?

Myself? If you haven't figured it out by now via my threads, I am totally against Obama and every last one of his unconstitutional acts.

Now if you agree with me, my question is, are you going to do something about this? Right now Rand Paul is planning on challenging this with a class action lawsuit for the Supreme Court. I will participate, will you? If so, watch Rand Paul's Facebook page for updates.
edit on 9-6-2013 by elouina because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:40 PM
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I would like to see everyone from both the Obama and Bush administrations in jail. And don't forget the 535 scumbags in congress.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:46 PM
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Well, I'll go first for the unpopular view, since I need to log and get RW stuff done for awhile anyway. I don't think Obama should be impeached. Why? 2 reasons.

#1. This only happens once ..if that. It has to be done right. 100% right. I don't see anything yet that supports the level of charges required to carry not only an impeachment but conviction to follow in Harry Reid's Senate. Nothing even close. The only thing worse than not doing it will be attempting that and failing...for there won't even be talk as a joke of a second try.

#2. If he's impeached....then what? Or more to the point, then who? Biden would likely go with him and on the same basis. This isn't Bush/Cheney where they're never in the same place at the same time. These two are buddies more often than not, it seems, when the big stuff happens. So, what Obama is good for, so it 'ol Joe. Who does that leave? President Boehner? Oh... No. No. No. I'll take a chastised and clipped Obama to an arrogant and fiery Boehner every day and twice on Sunday.

After all this, Obama is likely to be one of two things. Humbled and less a problem....or outrageous and #1 answers itself by proof that comes at that point. Humbled? He's no half the threat that someone roaring in to replace him under those conditions would be, especially Boehner. That's no Gerald Ford we see there, IMO.

.....and no, the program isn't legal in my view. A court, we hope, will be allowed to determine that and outside classified session.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by elouina
Just curious.. How many here feel that Obama should not be Impeached? And does anyone here also feel that the surveillance program is legal and should proceed?

I am wondering just how much the US is in the hole, and if there is any chance of digging it out. So if you feel that the Obama admin. supporting the surveillance program is kewl, I want to hear from you. And also, since you support this, do you feel the constitution should be invalidated?

Myself? If you haven't figured it out by now via my threads, I am totally against Obama and every last one of his unconstitutional acts.

Now if you agree with me, my question is, are you going to do something about this? Right now Rand Paul is planning on challenging this with a class action lawsuit for the Supreme Court. I will participate, will you? If so, watch Rand Paul's Facebook page for updates.
edit on 9-6-2013 by elouina because: (no reason given)


He's following the constitution. However he knows where the loop holes are. So did the last admin and pretty much every one of them before. Since Bush and then Obama place the nation in a state of emergency via EO, he can pretty much continue without the threat of impeachment as he has stated, Congress has been informed and signed off on it. Now have they gone beyond that by playing loose with some of the requirements they still must meet? Maybe so.

Personally, I think every one of the bums should be tried for treason by violating the spirit of the law and the trust we placed in them.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by elouina
Just curious.. How many here feel that Obama should not be Impeached? And does anyone here also feel that the surveillance program is legal and should proceed?

I am wondering just how much the US is in the hole, and if there is any chance of digging it out. So if you feel that the Obama admin. supporting the surveillance program is kewl, I want to hear from you. And also, since you support this, do you feel the constitution should be invalidated?

Myself? If you haven't figured it out by now via my threads, I am totally against Obama and every last one of his unconstitutional acts.

Now if you agree with me, my question is, are you going to do something about this? Right now Rand Paul is planning on challenging this with a class action lawsuit for the Supreme Court. I will participate, will you? If so, watch Rand Paul's Facebook page for updates.
edit on 9-6-2013 by elouina because: (no reason given)


I will participate, but dont use fakebook, so I will wait for it to appear on ATS.

I agree that Obama has broken the law many times now, and the intrusions under his admin make the watergate scandal look a a misjudged cookie judging competition.

So I think he should be impeached, thrown out of office, and then tried, along with most of his senior leadership, as they all seem to be complicit in this.

Just my 2 cents......



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Bilk22
 


There are no loop holes to the constitution. Just imagined ones for those who choose to break it. Either you agree with the constitution, the way it stands, with probable cause, or you don't.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


But I do agree with everything else you have to say.
edit on 9-6-2013 by elouina because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


So what do you intend for the government and ourselves to do to stop him? Perhaps we should just vent on forums and news articles and do nothing else? There is only one way you can stop a president and you don't agree that it is time yet. So what will it take for you to think it is time? This is an honest question here, and please don’t take offense. We are on the same side here. And when I say side, I mean in support of our constitution, and not Democrats vs. republicans. Right vs. wrong is exactly what it is. You can't pick or choose what parts of our constitution will be enforced according to who you like or don't like.

Finally, there is no humbling with Obama. Every time he gets off scott free with the citizens, he takes a deep breath and continues forward.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by elouina
 

Well, show me a crime he has committed. Not a theory based 'crime' but in the federal code of criminal statute and within the elements necessary to prosecute the crime, show me one he's actually, literally violated. I don't know of any. I honestly don't.

Yes, we're on the same side as far as the Constitution goes. I also can relate to how powerful the feeling is to see something done or to 'do something' for the sake of doing something. However, doing the wrong thing in the atmosphere we're entering in this nation is far worse than doing nothing while waiting for a clear path to act...if one appears.

As far as what 'needs to be done'? I do hope you don't mean armed force of any kind. I wrote a thread on that myself awhile back. It's been quite some time though so I don't expect many to recall it.

Calling for revolution is the worst kind of ignorance! (Nothing personal..That was the title)

Armed action, for those who would consider it, may some day come. I don't know and that's my biggest point on that right now. I'm 39yrs old with no armed forces experience. I'm not delusional. Even with all the private sector tactical training my finances could allow, I might last 5 minutes against a well trained and proper military unit. More likely? Less than a minute. That's just flat out honest and pragmatic.


(Few outside the Vets here are better equipped..and among those, I doubt many are anything like they were while carrying a rifle and standing a post in the Service, at this stage)



So...What to do.... Well, I'm not sure at this moment. I suppose I'm in a holding pattern like millions of others. Another movement like Occupy would have my energetic physical and logistical support. It may not come. A 3rd party run with a viable candidate will absolutely have my electoral support from campaign to caucus to general election as Ron Paul's people helped show me the way to accomplish. That may not happen though.

Given what may never come? We may well be on our own to solve our problems without outsiders to save our day for us. For that? I don't even know where we stand. Given the NSA revelations? They may well know our thoughts better than WE do. In which case, we need to assess the level and extent of that before moving ONE STEP further on anything , lest we just casually walk into the slaughter, re-education camp or prison, whistling as we do.


I just know impeachment isn't a viable option when charges don't exist under actual, specific law to pursue it under. Without that CLEAR and provable violation in a hostile Senate chamber? There is NO chance. As I said in my other note. Attempting that and failing is worse than not having attempted it.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I am going out to garden right now, but here is a quick response to what he has done that necessitates impeachment. I will catch up later. As the president of the US he swore under oath to defend our constitution. And he supports and defends this surveillance program. Although he has done many things wrong, this is one we can catch him on 100%.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by elouina
 


Therein lay the problem. You feel what he's done is a crime. I agree with you 100%. However, he did this thing by the authorization of a Court of Law and by advise of legal counsel indicating it was entirely legal to do. That shoots at least one element of ANY crime and maybe more.

Then we need to find the actual law his actions have violated. It's not enough to have a vague statement of violating his oath. In what way, specifically, has his oath been violated? Where, in what moment in time, did the violation take place that the U.S. Senate will convict him on, following the indictment/impeachment of the house?

See what I mean? If we're talking a normal vent/rant type thread about this, then sure... Hang 'em high and throw him out!


If we're talking serious and real world about this as something to actually seen done? Then the path isn't nearly that clear and I actually don't see a path at all. Not at the moment anyway. That may change as time and revelations go on. We can hope.....and then figure our how we'll all like President Boehner by appointment to the Office. (shudders)



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Oh I really need to get outside.
This was already found to be unconstitutional by the Justice department. And the 86 page report has been deemed "top secret". So there is our proof, hidden away, even from our elected officials.


the Justice Department was due to file a court motion Friday in its effort to keep secret an 86-page court opinion that determined that the government had violated the spirit of federal surveillance laws and engaged in unconstitutional spying.


Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by elouina
 


Well, answer when you come back... lol.... We think it's been ruled that way though.
Top Secret is Top Secret and until we can see that whole report, start to finish? It's rumors that what we 'know' of it is the full and complete truth with proper context.

I don't mean to be difficult. I really don't. I'm also no one who can EVER be mistaken for an Obama supporter. It's just a world of the law we enter into here. A majority of Congress are lawyers. It's their trade by education and profession in more cases than is decent. As the saying goes ..... In the law? It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

We also have a wild card here that hasn't been thrown yet ..but it probably will be soon. The President can bring down the curtain of executive privileged any time he sees fit to call it. I'm not sure how that is defeated. I imagine it can be. I HOPE it can be. The separation of powers within the U.S. Government are a bit odd that way though. Each of the 3 branches have some absolute powers that essentially protect them from abuses coming from 1 or both of the other two. I hope that Privilege isn't one of them for Obama.

Throwing that card would make life infinitely more complex. Not impossible ...as he cannot force people to remain silent, that I know of. He can punish but he cannot force. This is all fast entering waters no one has a proper map for.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by elouina
 


This isn't the only impeachable thing he's done though .
Nixon was impeached for the same thing ,but on a much much much smaller scale . Right ?
My worry would be ,the sitting vice president ,would then be president ,and then its business as usual .
The entire admin needs to be impeached ,and I'm beginning to think Hilary knew what she was doing when she left the admin .



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by PtolemyII
 


Nixon was never impeached. He resigned before the House could start actions against him but he saw it coming. It's very reasonable to assume it was going to happen if he hadn't stepped down first.


Could this one......? Nawww.... He'd never quit. Even faced with certain doom for his term and career. He'll never ever quit, is my feeling.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


You know I never realized that . I always thought he was impeached . I think they started proceedings ,didn't they ?
And no,this one would never step down ,and like with all illegal politicos,they allow them to break the law with impunity . This one is literally coddled so ....



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by PtolemyII
 


Don't feel bad on Nixon. I didn't realize it either until proceedings against Bill Clinton started moving and I had any reason to start paying attention. I'd always heard it put as 'Nixon was impeached' and just figured that was what happened with him resigning to avoid the final outcome of that having happened.

Add to that, Impeachment isn't even removal. That's only the House doing the equivalent of a Grand Jury indictment. The real stuff happens in the Senate where the actual trial gets held. More little details I had no reason to know before watching Clinton endure it. That experience was a civics lesson for all the wrong reasons... lol



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 

In answer to your third paragraph, I am a peaceful person and don't want to see what is in store for this country. Eh, I always hate bringing this up, you see I am a psychic. But the future is quite changeable with gentile persuasion. There are so many variables in such a situation, that one small thing can set it straight. Just the same as one small thing can do the opposite. Right now? I feel that although I am looking at peaceful ways, there is a storm brewing. Obama needs to stop while he is ahead and let that man be. For his own sake and for the sake of this country. We need to try and get this solved peacefully and thus why I am trying so hard to set this straight.

Meanwhile, while attention is set on this, combined with Obama and his staffs other lack of expertise, there is another storm brewing. Except this one is major. You see they need to concentrate more on weapon build ups in other countries rather then to put so much effort into spying on Americans to gain power. This man has no clue how to run a country. And he has done so much wrong, that he can single handedly destroy it.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by elouina
 


Well, I have nothing to hide and they can listen and read all my communications if it will keep us safer. People doing illegal things are the ones that are worried.



posted on Jun, 10 2013 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by elouina
Just curious.. How many here feel that Obama should not be Impeached? And does anyone here also feel that the surveillance program is legal and should proceed?

I am wondering just how much the US is in the hole, and if there is any chance of digging it out. So if you feel that the Obama admin. supporting the surveillance program is kewl, I want to hear from you. And also, since you support this, do you feel the constitution should be invalidated?

Myself? If you haven't figured it out by now via my threads, I am totally against Obama and every last one of his unconstitutional acts.

Now if you agree with me, my question is, are you going to do something about this? Right now Rand Paul is planning on challenging this with a class action lawsuit for the Supreme Court. I will participate, will you? If so, watch Rand Paul's Facebook page for updates.
edit on 9-6-2013 by elouina because: (no reason given)



Queue Sankari in 5...4...3...2...



posted on Jun, 11 2013 @ 04:07 AM
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reply to post by elouina
 


Obama hasn't done anything worth impeaching him over as far as I know.

He actually hasn't done anything really out of the ordinary as far as I know. No big gaffes with wide scale effects. Hardly anything I can even complain about.

I wouldn't expect any more from the man he would be replaced by if he was impeached.





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