Suppose we lived in paradise and everybody had what they needed and wanted - how would we BE (think/

If we were ALREADY in heaven, would there be any need to be compassionate? You don't have to worry about making anyone happy because everyone is already happy. They're in paradise!


If we were ALREADY in heaven, would there be any need to be service-to-others? There would be no reason to give anything to anyone because everything is provided for EVERYONE if they choose to have it.

So, this "service to self", "love thy neighbor" stuff, seems like it only needs to exist in a world where there is LACK and we use compassion to help others...

But if we lived in a perfect paradise where everyone already had whatever they wanted so we didn't need to worry about anyone else, wouldn't we be more selfish? More following our own joy? Since we know that there will be no consequence of anyone suffering as ALL is free to do the same and have all they need?

Well, for the 1%, that's what its like here.

reply to post by arpgme


If we were all demi gods and had the power to summon anything we desired or wanted then we would become apathetic eventually, and we would lose the sense of hunger that only can come from beings with imperfections of longings that form from their dreams and desires. We would basically turn into a race of perfect Demi Gods who are equally as boring as a Sunday afternoon that never ends.

suspect if we wanted for nothing, and nobody else wanted for anything.
We would then have to simply be judged and act by who we are and not by what we own or can give away.

Telling someone they have a nice car is meaningless. Telling someone they are funny..now that's a complement.

reply to post by arpgme

Suppose we lived in paradise and everybody had what they needed and wanted

Humans are never satisfied with what they have they always want more.

probably the closest thing i can relate to what you are saying are Enlightened Buddhist monks or Yogis, they practice meditation and are satisfied with what they have. Just look how they live and thats probably how we would live except on a bigger scale and grateful for new ideas

even though sometimes some of them dont even have a bite to eat

Sounds boring.
But then again, bored in Paradise.


Hey. What a great idea for a song!

Bored again in paradise
Nothing much to do....

reply to post by arpgme


I think people would get bored eventually. I cant see where people would get there motivation and drive from. If there is no accountability for the choices made then it would be more appropriate to call them actions not choices. A series of actions without cause and effect seems autonomous and perhaps lonely.

also it depends on paradise.

My paradise requires people to suffer and have less than me. therefore a sweet virtual reality system with brilliant games for me to express my darkness and ego would be a requirement...don't see me getting bored of that anytime too soon.

But that's ego.

Paradise for me is a nice barbecue with family and friends, all healthy, laughing, and good food. Temporary, but achievable often in life.

reply to post by arpgme


But keep in mind what i said and also that they are following the Buddha path to become enlightened same with other practices that follow a path to enlightenment. But if we could atleast practice the concentration and patience like those people have then maybe we could live in a world of Harmony but at the same time be great inventors and travelers without harming other living things. Basically live the world that we live today but in a more peaceful matter.

Of course there will always be disagreements but that doesn't mean that we have to kill each other about it. We as people can take a different approach because we have the brains to do so. Imagine once we start inhabiting other planets with this mentality?? were just going to keep destroying other things that we are not satisfied about.

Perhaps that is the cause of human suffering; we never feel like we have everything we want

reply to post by SaturnFX

Paradise for me is a nice barbecue with family and friends, all healthy, laughing, and good food. Temporary, but achievable often in life.

well said

reply to post by arpgme

My opinion is that our mind and body are the same. I do not believe in a substance dualism. I also believe in evolution. Thus, our mind has evolved solely to fit the constraints of our world.

If we were placed in an environment where we could have what we want, we'd probably destroy ourselves. Our genetics expect death and destruction in X amounts. More or less would be a selective pressure. So if peace and long life were increased, our ability to survive might actually go down. Generally, the greater the change, whether lesser or greater, produces a higher risk.

We will require time to live in a better world. Much time. My opinion.

I'm not an atheist, btw. Mostly agnostic.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Paradise for me is a nice barbecue with family and friends, all healthy, laughing, and good food. Temporary, but achievable often in life.

You inspired me. I've got more.

Bored again in paradise,
Nothing much to do.
Bored again in paradise,
But it's all right if I'm with you.


C'mon...Everybody sing!

reply to post by arpgme


The universe is a big place...

im sure for those who desire to care, that they will find plenty to do.

reply to post by Tlexlapoca

Which makes me think again of how "wealth" is somewhat subjective. To someone browsing art, a painting might have great value, but to a practical person, it might only be some paper and paint. To a rational person, belief in God might seem archaic and troublesome, but a religious person might feel their belief has great value far in excess of any real world example. To a person reading fiction from the past century the stories come alive and have value, but to some people that same fiction is just some ink and paper and wasted opportunity. What we think we need is somewhat subjective. We of course want food and water and shelter, but beyond that, I think humans are flexible.

I read that happiness peaks at $75,000 income. I think this was in the US.

I think a lot of what we think we need/want is cultural or regional in origin.

reply to post by arpgme


I enjoy watching optimism turn to pessimism.

Happy doesn't mean anything if you have never a bad day.

We are created like them and that means emotions will be part of heaven.

My 2 cents : Change what heaven means for you and what it will be better from any other place being dead ?

Originally posted by arpgme
If we were ALREADY in heaven, would there be any need to be compassionate? You don't have to worry about making anyone happy because everyone is already happy. They're in paradise!


If we were ALREADY in heaven, would there be any need to be service-to-others? There would be no reason to give anything to anyone because everything is provided for EVERYONE if they choose to have it.

So, this "service to self", "love thy neighbor" stuff, seems like it only needs to exist in a world where there is LACK and we use compassion to help others...

But if we lived in a perfect paradise where everyone already had whatever they wanted so we didn't need to worry about anyone else, wouldn't we be more selfish? More following our own joy? Since we know that there will be no consequence of anyone suffering as ALL is free to do the same and have all they need?

There wouldn't be a need to be compassionate, nor would there be a need to give service to others. But in that same regard, there would be no need to be selfish. By your own hypothetical situation, there is no need, period. Everything needed is already taken care of.

In this hypothetical situation, I think everyone would sit around happily, in contentment, until we all died. Certainly not a bad way for a species to end.

Originally posted by Phage
Bored again in paradise,
Nothing much to do.
Bored again in paradise,
But it's all right if I'm with you.

Bored again in paradise,
Sitting here with my lemonade with ice.
Bored again in paradise,
It's alright because it's so nice.

Did I win?

On topic though, how do you know that paradise is like that? For some, paradise IS helping others.

Originally posted by arpgme
But if we lived in a perfect paradise where everyone already had whatever they wanted so we didn't need to worry about anyone else, wouldn't we be more selfish? More following our own joy? Since we know that there will be no consequence of anyone suffering as ALL is free to do the same and have all they need?

In a perfect paradise, another's joy is everyone's joy. Each soul would delight in the delight of each and all.

The question of selfishness would never arise as there would be an infinite source of joy and bliss open to all and enveloping all.

Your bliss is my bliss is our bliss, and we are all blissful together.

The problem with your OP is that what you advocate is not really a perfect paradise. You see, in a truly perfect paradise, everybody would be happy and everybody would still have the capacity to feel compassion and have the desire to help others. There would still be a yearning to think and share ideas with others as well as have new experiences where everyone develops their knowledge further.

People often use the "but if we were in a perfect universe...we couldn't/wouldn't..." argument to excuse God for creating an imperfect and unjust world.