Wow this is amazing. The link Atomix posted didn't work for me, but I'll give it another go.

Anyone else got more info?

I think its weird that there are so many references to the end of the world being 2012.

I read The Black Sun. It's great.

However I don't take half of what's in there as fact.

They're all great mind openers nonetheless.

I live on LI and Camp hero is real. It was used as a costal defence positionfor many years and belonged to The navy, army,Army Air Corps., and Air Force in its time. It's most recent use was as a Radar Facilitie during the Cold war. Now here is where the whole Conspiracy part starts, the folowing is not cornfirmed as fact but just theorys. The government learned that the radar was capable of acheiving certaint frequencys that could manipulate human (and animals) emotion (mind control). Also through some type of human interface with the Radar it could be used for remote veiwing, time travel and what not.... The facilitie was closed down and given to Montaulk State Park, and is still part of the park today. I've been there once and the place was crawling with deer ticks so i decided not to stay long and explore much. ALSO the name of camp hero has changed over time depending on which service owned it.

QUOTE : "The only problem i have...is how do we know whether or not these site or similar info/sites are there to disinform or misinform...! "

put your critical thinking cap on

the same logic applies to the origional montauk story

nichols and bielbek {sp} have been caught repeatedly in errors of fact , and outright lies

so dismissing thier detractors as " disinfo" is rather myopic

YRS - APE

Ape, on the Alienshift link I posted above there's an interview with a time traveler from 2036. When first asked about taxes, he states they don't pay them. Later on in the interview, he is asked TWICE and both times states that they do pay taxes. When reading the critical review by the author this was never pointed out. Many, many times it's the smallest most insignificant things that will catch a liar in his/her own trap rather than the more complicated technical components. When I first start looking at a claim, I look for the small inconsistencies, because most liars/frauds are focused on making sure the more technical components appear convincing.

I would label the whole of the Montauk Genre a very far fetched mythos which hoovers in all sorts of wacky fringe esoterica unto a fusion anomaly, it is pure spoof hokum though some of it when analysed may have some grains of truth.

So it works like "Grey" Informations the sort the Spindoctors employ. Truth and non-truth battle it out, it is more like the implanting of a hitech new age genre. All hail the new age of Aquarius bull crap.

Like the reverse of some of the wackiest of the Scientology claims where we discover we are ruled by Xenu Entities throughout a Cosmic Game when we hit the nth past lives past the flesh incarnate of a purely electromagnetic and spiritual intelligenstia.

Anyone can fake memories and anyone can play act past lives and also anyone can play act future selves. The Black Sun slant hoovers in the old so called Nazi Tibet connections.

It's like Michael Hoffman III (sic) what is his Game? (As an old OTO member now turned Anti-Semite who used to write for the "Fortean Times" who also promoted such grandiose Montauk claims of Inter Dimensional Lovecraftian Entities where the so called invisible anti-particle generator was supposed to exist)

Conspiracy theories permeate all sorts of disquietuing agendas and horrifying tilts to the bloated ego's of the few. Unfortuneatly the Far Right seem involved.

In essence we have Occult Conspiracies and also Nuts and Bolts Conspiarcies.

No doubt there exists a strange undercurrent around the fringes of miltary research and developments (I am thinking of psychic research and novel weapons and space propulsion researches) but well time travel and electromagnetic time benders, well this really bends the corn in the midwest just like a faked crop circle!


[edit on 27-8-2005 by castlesonair]

I remember when people were saying that 2000 would be the end of the world, but then when nothing happened, they said 2002, then 2010, now 2012, what's next? 2020

come on people, gimmie a break, people have been thinking that the world is going to end since the begining of it. My Grandma used to tell me about when people would be so scared that the world was going to end back in the 40's and 50's, she said that it would play on the radio, and be published in the news papers. It's the same ole crap, just a different year. This planet has been here for 1,000,000 + years, and we have been here for a few hundred of that. What makes people think that its all just going to come to an end in a couple of years?

As far as the Speed of Light goes! well lets see, 100 yrs ago it was an amazing thing to go 20-30 mph in a vehicle with 4 wheels. In the 50's it was amazing when people were setting records doing over 100 mph on land. In 2005 we now have Space rockets, and aircraft that can fly at over 10,000-20,000 + mph.

Give it some time, few more hundred years and the Speed of Light will eventually be possible.

This is the first I have read about the Montauk project, and it really interests me. Thanks for the links, and keep adding more for me to check out!!

Originally posted by Kamikazi This planet has been here for 1,000,000 + years, and we have been here for a few hundred of that. What makes people think that its all just going to come to an end in a couple of years?

I may be wrong but I think the earth has been around for a little longer than 1,000,000+. And mankind has surely been around for more than a feww hundred years.

And as far as the end of the earth is concerned; lots of Christians and Jews feel we are in the last days according to Biblical prophesy. I applaud your optimism however.

I'm not so confident!!!!


The Mountauk project has been so clouded with allegations/disinfo; I don't see how the truth can ever come out. Still one of the most intrigueing cases around.

[edit on 30-8-2005 by whaaa]

[edit on 30-8-2005 by whaaa]

True true! that's why I slapped that + on the end of the 1,000,000. Been a while since I had my head in a history book

This project is believable, up to the point of a group breaking in and using their mind to unleash a a demon/monster to destroy the project. Once it reached that point, it got flushed.

Sure, is it possible that the project or several of these projects took place. Indeed. We know for a fact that the government, including the military, took a high interest in the occult during and after WWII. Hitler opened our eyes with some of his own projects and trust me, if you have seen the actual "Death Camps" in person, they would open your eyes too.

The CIA in conjunction with the military did do experiments in mind control, remote viewing, and things on this level. Fact? Indeed it is and public knowledge. Now, did those running the project pick up the homeless or runaways? Possible giving the time periods and that the CIA was involved as far as we know.

The problem I have is the lack of security around the base when the account takes place of "Lazar" breaking in. I'm sorry, I have spent my life on military bases, around military personel, and seen stuff that most people haven't. My point is this. I seriously doubt an amteur group lead by "Lazar" would be able to break into a secret base, disrupt an experiment, and then manage to escape. This is real life. Ain't gonna happen. He would be arrested or worse, someone would put a 5.56mm round through him.

Just my thoughts and my own experience thrown in.

I'm going to step into this with what I do know of the subject, even though it isn't much. Basically, Preston Nichols , Peter Moon, and Al Bielek have been spinning a story that gets more complex as the years go on and the book sequels materialize. They have woven in some historical truths --- Montauk was the site of some sort of project, the Philadelphia Experiment of course did really happen, much of the material in "The Black Sun," probably the best book in the series, is hitorically verifiable---and the claims they have made have lured in the talents of some genuinely pretty good writers and researchers, such as Alexandra Bruce, who wrote the somehwhat tied-in with Montauk book "The Philadelphia Experiment Murder." So---it is mostly a deception spun loosely around a few facts. Ironically, as it goes on and more and better researchers become involved, more facts and more quality speculation enter into it. At first it was almost complete fiction.
Why was the initial story spun? Well, that's where the ugly part of the truth creeps in. The previous posts that expose Preston Nichols as a more or less lecherous human being are true, and he basically cooked it all up as a scheme to meet impressionable young men ( I cannot verify whether he's actually a pedophile, but from what I understand it sounds like it---he likes young boys, but in teh Montauk world, it is said that all the "former Montauk boys" that he has "helped" are over 18. I hope that's the case, but I doubt it). Al Bielek has also generallt been proven to be full of BS, although what his motivations are, I'm not sure---probably the oldest in the book, a little notoriety and a few bucks.
That being said, the books are genrally thought-provoking and entertaining, "The Black Sun" in particular is a worthy tome, but basically the Montauk series was set up to have as wide a framework as possible and incorporate as many genuine conspiracies as it can, to keep the series going. Therefore, the longer it goes on, the more true things are inserted into it, but the connections to Montauk become more and more implausible. I would encourage all to read them with a grain---at least of salt---enjoy them for the ideas they present, and use them as a springboard to do further research into the areas they touch upon, such as the Philadelphia Experiment, the occult roots of Nazism, quantum theory, secret government mind control projects, and the like---just realize that the actual ties these subjects have with Montauk itself are tenuous if not downright non-existent, and that Preston Nichols just kind of cooked up the whole thing as a way to meet young men.
---Ryan

im not sold on the complete notion of it, Im almost certain that some sort of sinister activity went on there, I think it was the mind control/medical experiment variety, and not time travel/monsters/aliens and the like.

Hi all,

over the last two years I've been fact-finding in my spare time about the Philadelphia Experiment and Montauk / Phoenix Project, concentrating on not just Bielek's story but the traceable facts of the matter (with the intention of producing a book, which I have half-outlined). Whilst the real intentions behind the PX remain unknown, it's clear that some elements of the research were continued some years later at Montauk. Bielek's story, to me, is just that, a story, built on some of the facts that I have also found in my research - and actually is deflecting attention away from what really took place, which - in my opinion - is fascinating enough without turning it into science-fiction!

My message to anyone interested in the subject would be to take in what Bielek says, by all means, but process it and spit out anything that can't be corroborated. If Bielek hadn't come along, I believe we'd all know far more about what took place from the PX onwards but his story - being so poor - actually served the authorities in being able to discredit anything to do with the subject. The proveable facts point to an actual story that is even more incredible for its believe-ability.

I have little to add here, but I always feel, when given stories like Prestons, that the disinformation specialists would be better at discrediting people who tell these tales than the people would be in defending them - all the power and money would be on one side of the argument.

I attended two lectures by Preston. I did not see him catering to young men during the question and answer time at the end. During the first lecture he looked very presentable. During the second he had a sort of bloated and ill appearance. It appeared as though he had a very serious disease and perhaps not long to live.

During one of the lectures I noticed two men who 'felt' and looked like aliens to me. This, I am sure, will sound like bs to most of you, but I am trying to be straightfoward here. Preston, later on, at the end of the lecture, made the comment that there were two aliens in the audience.

He must have had some interaction with them at some time in order to be able to discern them from ordinary humans - which gave his story more credence in my mind. He also does not 'read' like a con artist. There are many people on coast to coast am who seem so full of it, as well as certain of the hosts at times. If you look for it, you can get a 'flavor' of bs and get better and better at recognizing it. Preston, though the story is so fantastic that I really would not believe it - Preston just seems to be an honest person in my book.

Has anyone knowledgable looked over his technical information?