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Gay Colorado couple sues bakery for allegedly refusing them wedding cake

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posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


to learn? The insults just keep coming with you do they not? You won't answer if you practice religion but you sure want to protect your gay agenda at the cost of belittling other people. Pathetic.




posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
He does not believe in same sex marriage according to his religion.


What does same sex marriage have to do with selling a cake?

The man isn't being hired to marry a same sex couple, the man is being hired to fill an order for a cake. Does his religion expressly forbid him from baking a cake for a gay person? No, it doesn't.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


If you are a Muslim you are spot on...another star for you



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by esdad71
 


We know you hate the Muslims but that isn't the topic of the thread...
Why not answer his question instead of trying to divert?
Also why throw a paddy fit saying he is insulting you? I have not seen it....maybe he is getting sick of the fact he and others have explained why the baker is wrong 20/30 times but you refuse to see it.
edit on 18-6-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by boymonkey74
 


Hate is a very. very strong word. I am feeling it now though from many of you. You hate a voice the opposite of what you preach. what question...I have answered many but BH does not answer mine. I am asking for help to understand but it is not given. Just more rhetoric....
edit on 18-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by esdad71
 


If a law is passed that forces the baker to marry someone of the same gender, THAT would be infringing on his beliefs. Forcing someone to bear arms in war when their religious belief is against killing would be infringing on their beliefs. But having to make a cake when you are in the business of making cakes can, in no way, be infringing on your religious beliefs.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by esdad71
He does not believe in same sex marriage according to his religion.


What does same sex marriage have to do with selling a cake?

The man isn't being hired to marry a same sex couple, the man is being hired to fill an order for a cake. Does his religion expressly forbid him from baking a cake for a gay person? No, it doesn't.


Truth Girl,


so are you saying that under the protection of 'Freedom of religion' it is okay to discriminate, as long as you believe in the religion that tells you to discriminate?

you keep talking about the constitutional laws, what about 'All Men treated equal' were those 'Men' treated equal as a Man-Woman couple?



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by esdad71
 


We know you hate the Muslims but that isn't the topic of the thread...
Why not answer his question instead of trying to divert?
Also why throw a paddy fit saying he is insulting you? I have not seen it....maybe he is getting sick of the fact he and others have explained why the baker is wrong 20/30 times but you refuse to see it.
edit on 18-6-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)


A paddy fit?


Baiting me will not work but if you do not have anything to add to the thread I am sure you will eventually be censored.

If he will sell a cake and employ people who are gay,. So is it just partial discrimination?
edit on 18-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by esdad71
 


So, answer my question. If his religion told him that people of other religions should be killed, and he BELIEVED it, but the law didn't allow him to kill, is he being discriminated against?

If there is a question that I haven't answered, please, let me know and, unlike some, I will be HAPPY to answer it.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I will answer your question

If he was Muslim, yes, he is discriminated against. If he is Christian, he would be breaking a commandant so it would not fit in regards to the baker. Same sex marriage is not a holy sacrament to him.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I will answer your question

If he was Muslim, yes, he is discriminated against. If he is Christian, he would be breaking a commandant so it would not fit in regards to the baker. Same sex marriage is not a holy sacrament to him.


Curious.. which commandment covers not baking a cake for a gay man. Serious question.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by esdad71
 


I would tell the person who runs the business good job. I run a business. It isn't mine. The guy who owns it runs his own business and doesn't do anything with this one other than collect wire transfers when we do disbursements.

The business and the owner are separate. Semantic cartwheels notwithstanding.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


Because the person did not build the business right, you did? The consumer? Consumers have a choice, a business does not. A consumer can go where they want when they want.

I think you do not understand America and I am tired of people chipping it away brick by brick.


So when you have had your ash handed to you, you instead move the goal posts to what you find appealing personally and not what the law of the land is?

Just a few pages back you were arguing law.

How many more ways do you want to be wrong?



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by esdad71
 



Originally posted by esdad71
If he was Muslim, yes, he is discriminated against.


So, you would argue for his "religious freedom" to kill people, just as you are arguing for the baker's right to discriminate... Interesting.

I think I know pretty much everything I need to know, then. Thanks for playing.


And I don't follow a religion. But I'm not gay either. So, I have no horse in this race, so to speak. I just believe in equal treatment under the law of all citizens.

When you show how the baker's freedom of religion is being violated by making a cake for a gay couple, but it's OK for him to make a cake for a dog couple... You know what? Never mind.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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This thread is done.

esdad sorry man.

But you can't keep on just defending the indefensible.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


Because the person did not build the business right, you did? The consumer? Consumers have a choice, a business does not. A consumer can go where they want when they want.

I think you do not understand America and I am tired of people chipping it away brick by brick.


I didn't see your response before now, and I apologize.

A person is separate from a business in one key legal distinction.

A business license.

A business needs a license to operate because a business has sets of rules and regulations around it, and to operate a business, an individual must agree to these rules. Now, these rules vary from domain to domain, but most adhere to generally the same codes of conduct and all are under the jurisdiction of federal laws as well, that are agreed to the moment a business license is applied for and given.

A businessman has a choice. Adhere to the rules that he agreed to when applying for a business license, or do not be in business.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I did not say i would defend anything, I answered your question as presented. I think those that kill in the name of religion are idiots.

You play a good game but in the end word games will not make a court case. We shall see what happens when this goes to court and then to the Federal level.

I stand by the fact though this was not discrimination against gays but against a persons right to not believe in same sex marriage. If they had asked for a birthday cake or even a civil union cake it would have been made based on what the baker has said.

Problem is that in each state the laws will differ and there needs to be protection for all, not just one group. I do not like discrimination nor am I for it. Never said I was. I am simply for equality for all.

Waste of time, no, because i have a better understanding and confirmation on where the nation stands. That is, a small group or even one person can be a voice for an entire group even if some in that group do not agree. Not one respone to the link I posted on the gays who do not believe in marriage either. Not one. So that shows the close minded attitude of many of you. I tried to engage and you simply would not look at the other side of the coin as I did for you stating he should have made the cake.

Peace..

edit on 18-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by esdad71
 


You know nothing about our nation if that is your understanding.

In our nation it is about the rights of the individual. Not the individual business, but rather the individual human. There are no "groups" in our form of rule of law. Any perceived "groups" are typically semantic in nature. And those semantics would not be needed were everyone to agree that it is wrong ti discriminate. Especially when people use their religion as a weapon of hate and descrimination.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
Not one respone to the link I posted on the gays who do not believe in marriage either. Not one. So that shows the close minded attitude of many of you.


Actually, it shows that people aren't interested in red herrings.

If you want to discuss your link, please start a thread about "Gays that don't believe in marriage" and u2u me the link. We can discuss it there if you like.



posted on Jun, 18 2013 @ 05:56 PM
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You keep mentioning 'equality for all' yet you agree that he had a right to deny them a cake based on his religious beliefs, so what trumps the other? what right is first? religion? or equality?



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