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Gay Colorado couple sues bakery for allegedly refusing them wedding cake

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posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Credenceskynyrd
 



Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd
This is a ridiculous bit of attention seeking from this homosexual couple, dressed up as "rights"


And was Rosa Parks "seeking attention" by insisting on riding in the front of the bus when she could have just chosen to keep riding in the back? Or was she making a statement about her rights as a human being?


what a ridiculous analogy- a state enforced law on public transport versus the decision of a small business over a cake

Most businesses would accept their money, this should be a tolerant enough society to accept private businesses who don't

Cease your ridiculous hyperbole




posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by HandyDandy
reply to post by Honor93
 


How many times does it need to to be spelled out to you?

The gay couple did NOT ask for ANYTHING extra that the baker does not do already. How is this concept a hard concept?

Oh, I know, he doesn't make "gay" wedding cakes because a cake can be gay right?



you and I may think it is a stupid decision- but ultimately, private business should be free to make such decisions- very authoritarian and dictatorial to want to get the state involved

Most cake businesses would accept their cash, they are being drama queens



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd
you and I may think it is a stupid decision- but ultimately, private business should be free to make such decisions- very authoritarian and dictatorial to want to get the state involved


I'll ask again:

Would it be A-OK for a Muslim baker to refuse making a cake for a Jew based on religious objections? And don't give me the whole Kosher thing...I mean the cake that the Muslim baker makes on a daily basis and sells to others......

Or would we tell the bigoted Muslim to shut the hell up and by law make the damn cake?
edit on 9-6-2013 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd
you and I may think it is a stupid decision- but ultimately, private business should be free to make such decisions- very authoritarian and dictatorial to want to get the state involved


I'll ask again:

Would it be A-OK for a Muslim baker to refuse making a cake for a Jew based on religious objections? And don't give me the whole Kosher thing...I mean the cake that the Muslim baker makes on a daily basis and sells to others......

Or would we tell the bigoted Muslim to shut the hell up and by law make the damn cake?
edit on 9-6-2013 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)


I would let him be, he wouldn't be very successful- I am not authoritarian



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:20 AM
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just so we are clear, I don't care who they want to restrict their sales to, people with tattoos, piercings, people who have ginger hair

I don't care, butt out I say- their won't be too many successful businesses like that



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd
you and I may think it is a stupid decision- but ultimately, private business should be free to make such decisions- very authoritarian and dictatorial to want to get the state involved


I'll ask again:

Would it be A-OK for a Muslim baker to refuse making a cake for a Jew based on religious objections? And don't give me the whole Kosher thing...I mean the cake that the Muslim baker makes on a daily basis and sells to others......

Or would we tell the bigoted Muslim to shut the hell up and by law make the damn cake?
edit on 9-6-2013 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)
That is a very good argument. Religious belief has won in the past, especially when regarding Muslims. Did not a NJ judge take the side of Sharia law in a beating case because of religion verses abuse laws. New Jersey Judge Rules Islamic Sharia Law Trumps U.S. Law



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:29 AM
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I am not talking about law or public services, I am talking about small private enterprise- sell to whoever the hell you want, most businesses will not have any discriminatory criteria they just need to survive, miniscule number will have this sort of attitude

But oh no, a couple need to have their moment in the sun, look at me wha wha wha

Cry babies



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by AuntB
 


Bad example. From your own link:


Charles’ ruling was overturned last month by New Jersey’s Appellate Court, which ruled that the husband’s religious beliefs were irrelevant and that the judge, in taking them into consideration, “was mistaken.”



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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but it is 'discrimination' regardless of freedoms or lack of freedoms, the end result is discrimination based on Sexuality, why would anyone support discrimination of any kind?

is utilizing Freedom of religion a pass on discrimination?



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Darth_Prime
but it is 'discrimination' regardless of freedoms or lack of freedoms, the end result is discrimination based on Sexuality, why would anyone support discrimination of any kind?

is utilizing Freedom of religion a pass on discrimination?



don't shop there, shop at the 99%+ cake makers who don't give a shiny turd what your sexual orientation is

We as a society should also be tolerant enough to accept a tiny minority of businesses who sell to who they want



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd
you and I may think it is a stupid decision- but ultimately, private business should be free to make such decisions- very authoritarian and dictatorial to want to get the state involved


I'll ask again:

Would it be A-OK for a Muslim baker to refuse making a cake for a Jew based on religious objections? And don't give me the whole Kosher thing...I mean the cake that the Muslim baker makes on a daily basis and sells to others......

Or would we tell the bigoted Muslim to shut the hell up and by law make the damn cake?
edit on 9-6-2013 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)


The Kosher 'thing' is an established set of beliefs. You are again, like these guys, are trying to creating an issue that you 'know' will make waves.

My point in all of this is not non-tolerance of gay marriage and I am not defending the baker. I am defending the fact that in America you used to have a choice. The ability to make your own decisions without outside influence or the government MAKING you do something or passing a law favoring one group over another.

Take emotion away and look at this with a little common sense. Do not take a side....

1. Gay marriage is not recognized so how can it fit into that law in Colorado. This is where the gray area starts.
2. Any establishment should have the right to refuse as it is a private business. This is not communist Russia
3. There are 100's of other bakeries and I am sure one of their gay or straight friends could have suggested one.
4. Rosa Parks did not have a choice of other buses
5. Raising a child who is homosexual is not a difficult experience, but an enlightening one for sure. You should show them what they can have, how they are not different and can integrate. This is where is correlates with being black in some cases. I would not put my son/daughter in the middle of any fight such as this as it would cause more harm to them each day to know that there are those that are ignorant enough to hate when you should place them in an environment that is safe and loving.

BigFatFurryTexan -



Call me on it. I don't care. Because I certainly hope you don't think that is actually going to go anywhere. I have a long, well established membership. Somewhere in my thousands of posts you can find quite a few mentions about my oldest son being gay. I would bet I posted something once or twice on my blog about it, too. Have fun fishing.


You could have joined yesterday. I do not care. I can see that you are a long time member(but I have 3 years on you btw
) and you know how people will do that in these forums. Don't play dumb and that veiled threat that something would go nowhere also falls flat. Nice try.

So tell you what...

Since you fancy yourself a scholar/writer let's make is go somewhere. Set up a debate between you and me about this issue. Mano y Mano? Does the legalization of 'gay marriage' destroy the basic foundation of freedom of religion? It is my experience when i do this that nothing else happens. Use your powers you feel you have achieved on this site you Big Ape.



edit on 9-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
but it is 'discrimination' regardless of freedoms or lack of freedoms, the end result is discrimination based on Sexuality, why would anyone support discrimination of any kind?

is utilizing Freedom of religion a pass on discrimination?



don't shop there, shop at the 99%+ cake makers who don't give a shiny turd what your sexual orientation is

We as a society should also be tolerant enough to accept a tiny minority of businesses who sell to who they want



But it's a law in Colorado, so if he feels that way he should move his business? does that sound correct?



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
but it is 'discrimination' regardless of freedoms or lack of freedoms, the end result is discrimination based on Sexuality, why would anyone support discrimination of any kind?

is utilizing Freedom of religion a pass on discrimination?



don't shop there, shop at the 99%+ cake makers who don't give a shiny turd what your sexual orientation is

We as a society should also be tolerant enough to accept a tiny minority of businesses who sell to who they want



But it's a law in Colorado, so if he feels that way he should move his business? does that sound correct?



yeah, but I personally think on a wider scale, that sort of law should be repealed- it may have been born out of good intentions, but it is ridiculous when you look at this case



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
but it is 'discrimination' regardless of freedoms or lack of freedoms, the end result is discrimination based on Sexuality, why would anyone support discrimination of any kind?

is utilizing Freedom of religion a pass on discrimination?



don't shop there, shop at the 99%+ cake makers who don't give a shiny turd what your sexual orientation is

We as a society should also be tolerant enough to accept a tiny minority of businesses who sell to who they want



But it's a law in Colorado, so if he feels that way he should move his business? does that sound correct?



yeah, but I personally think on a wider scale, that sort of law should be repealed- it may have been born out of good intentions, but it is ridiculous when you look at this case


as i stated prior, there should never have to be a law in place, people are right to their personal beliefs, but should never turn into discrimination, sadly it's not the case, i am the last person to want a bunch of Laws, but if we have to deal with what life is 'now' that is what is in place, he either abides by it or breaks it, his conscious either way



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:36 PM
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To take this even further, this is how the government was able to pass Prohibition . They used woman's suffrage as a platform. The government knew that if they took a group of people who needed or wanted something, they could use it is infringe or take away other rights. The same thing is happening here.

By using gay rights as a platform, they are pushing another persons view upon you as a citizen even if you do not agree. A person has the right to not support gay marriage or gay unions. However, this is making it against the law. It is not about discrimination, it is about choice, but as it was in the early 1900's, the government is using emotion to strip away the rights of everyone and in the end could not care less about gay marriage. Ask Michelle Obama at her latest speech where a lesbian woman was dragged from the home of two lesbians who held the speech. Who has who's back...no one folks. In the end you will still be on your own but the government will be able to tell you what you can do during your time.

The FIRST amendment folks... " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" . The SEODA law in Colorado is simply unconstitutional. It is not there to protect, it is there to push an agenda on everyone even if they do not agree. Sounds like the law causes discrimination against free speech also as well as freedom of religion. which is protected in CODA.

And like I have said many time to friends, please, allow gay people to marry as it would pump billions in the free market economy each year and also let them experience not only the ceremonial aspect of it, but getting a divorce, alimony...etc.


edit on 9-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
The FIRST amendment folks... " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" .


So, you are all for a Satanist who exercises his religion by sacrifycing babies to be able to do such things?

Where do we draw the line?

Oh, wait, that's right...you can exercise your religion until you interfere with another person's rights.


The gay couple did nothing to stop the cake maker from exercising his religion. But, the cake maker DID infringe on the rights of the gay couple.

I'm done arguing this point in this thread. We will see in September what the Law says. My money is on the couple.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by HandyDandy
 




let me get this straight, you are using an example of a satanist sacrificing a baby in order to compare with the story of a gay couple not getting a cake from one particular cake maker (even though all or nearly all of the rest would supply it?)

Seriously, did you just do that



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by esdad71
 


what about using Religion to push an agenda? and an idea? how much countless religious propaganda are there?

has not the Bible persuaded people into 'what' to believe, how to act etc? you could say the same with everything,

we just want to be equal, to be not thought of as a 'Sub-Human' and not just 'Gay' but as a Human regardless of our sexuality



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by esdad71
 


Your comparison is still wrong. The only person who is having rights taken away is the person who is not having a good provided to him because of sexual orientation.

The shop keeper didn't want to sell a cake to a gay couple solely because that cake was going to be used in a gay couples ceremony. The shop owner was worried about what his cake was going to be used for once purchased. He wasn't being asked to make something that is different from any other wedding cake. His decision was based solely on their sexual orientation.

Prohibition is in no way related to this. Prohibition was about a group taking away rights that they don't like. It was about meddling in the private affairs of others.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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In continuation,

The Constitution - Separation of Church and state.

he has every right to believe in whatever religion, practice whatever religion, but doesn't override the 'State'

Likewise "All men will be treated equal", so is he denying the "Constitutions" because he wont give a wedding cake to a gay couple? regardless of his 'religious beliefs' if all men are to be treated equal he should give a wedding cake to any couple man or woman gay or straight

as far as them being 'Drama Queens' and 'crying about it' if he feels that strong about it, why doesn't he take it to the state? if he feels the law is unjust and against the "constitution" why not take it to the State, get signatures and petitions, have them vote on it, see what the people of Colorado want,



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