GOD - The Slave Massa

If God was just going to give them over to their desires then there is no point for a bible existing in the first place. What's the point if God will just say "yeah... thou shalt not kill - that's what's in my eternal word but now you have my permission".

It is just a way to defend the nonsense that God does.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I just said I blamed the Israelites for their choices. I am not condoning their choice but I'm also not passing judgment on God because of wars, regardless of semantics wars still happen, and most people agree that sometimes war is necessary. Looks like we still don't get it.

reply to post by sacgamer25


But god told them to do it.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

But god told them to do it.

He told them he was going to tell them to do it. He also correctly predicted the doctrine of "Original Sin" taught by the Catholic Church.

Guess what that must mean, he predicted it; he must have known it was going to happen, and he allowed it to happen. So either he Orchestrated it to happen or he allowed it to happen. I believe it to be Orchestrated. But it is still just semantics.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Oh, I get it! Since god knew that he was going to tell them to do it beforehand, that means god didn't really tell them to do it! Even though he did.

That makes perfect sense.

Where did you read that god said he was going to say it? All I saw was him telling them to do it.

If god orchestrated it, doesn't that mean he caused it? So god wanted those babies to die, right? If he didn't then why did he orchestrate it?

Originally posted by sacgamer25
...he allowed it to happen. So either he Orchestrated it to happen or he allowed it to happen. I believe it to be Orchestrated.

So he allowed it to happen..... but he didn't because he orchestrated it? Did I just read that right?

This is what religion causes: cognitive dissonance. You should really look that term up because you just showed a perfect example of it.

You completely contradicted yourself within two sentences. That's close to a record I think.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Oh, I get it! Since god knew that he was going to tell them to do it beforehand, that means god didn't really tell them to do it! Even though he did.

That makes perfect sense.

Where did you read that god said he was going to say it? All I saw was him telling them to do it.

edit on 8-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I already posted. I only made one assumption which is really just logic.

God told Samuel to tell the Israelites if they choose a King they would go to war and die in war.

Later it says God told the Israelites to go to war, and throughout the OT many Israelites died in war.

So I made the logical assumption that when God told the Israelites what would happen if they choose a king he had already planned the outcome, and thus he credits himself for causing what he said would happen to happen.

The entire OT, all of the profits agreed. When the Israelites worshiped God by pursuing love they found peace and prosperity. When they failed to love one another they were challenged in war, often times captured into slavery, they found no peace.

The message when you pursue love you find love. When you pursue something that is not love you do not find love. Pursue love and you will find peace. This is what the OT says and Jesus said the same thing.

reply to post by sacgamer25


But he still "orchestrated" it. Or did he allow it? You still haven't cleared that part up yet.

Excuses excuses. "God done it. I don't need nothing else."

I guess since god knew he was going to say it, that means he really didn't say it and didn't order them to do It. Gotcha. That's almost comical.

Okay, I'm done. You said something about the blind leading the blind? I hope you're not a leader, because you'd lead people into a pit.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

But he still "orchestrated" it. Or did he allow it? You still haven't cleared that part up yet.

Excuses excuses. "God done it. I don't need nothing else."

I guess since god knew he was going to say it, that means he really didn't say it and didn't order them to do It. Gotcha.

That's almost comical.

Okay, I'm done. You said something about the blind leading the blind? I hope you're not a leader, because you'd lead people into a pit.

edit on 8-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I said he orchestrated it according to scripture. You fail to see the point.

Let me make this real simple.

1st God is real

2nd 9/11 happened

3rd The US knows it happened and did nothing to stop it.

These are facts.

Weather the US made it happen or it just happened it still happened. Nothing can change the fact that the twin towers collapsed on 9/11.

Whether God orchestrated Hitler or Hitler just happened by random Chaos God is the author of random Chaos, knowing the possible outcome of such Chaos, and he let Chaos happen. Or he Orchestrated it all by design, apart from Chaos. DNA, Mathematics, Science, all suggest a more organized and intelligent approach then random Chaos.

Meaning that quite literally everything good or bad that has ever happens, happens according to God's orchestrated design, using our own decisions against us as he judges us perfectly.

You must have a belief.

God let everything happen, Chaos.

God made everything happen, Order.

There is no God.

Even if we are all God, that simply means we are all Hitler, thus we all made Hitler happen. Thus all things are still orchestrated by God if we make up God.

No matter what you say you cannot escape the fact that God knowingly lets evil exist.

reply to post by sacgamer25


But you said that he allowed it, then you said he didn't allow it but orchestrated it. Which is it?

You still haven't explained why god TOLD them to kill those babies. If he didn't want them to kill those babies, he wouldn't have told them to do it, but he did.

ETA: By the way, I know god lets evil exist. If he didn't then there would be no evil, and there is. I fail to see how that proves your point though.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

But you said that he allowed it, then you said he didn't allow it but orchestrated it. Which is it?

You still haven't explained why god TOLD them to kill those babies. If he didn't want them to kill those babies, he wouldn't have told them to do it, but he did.

I have answered you, now you are not answering me. So we will not continue our debate.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Your answer was that god knew he was going to tell them beforehand. How does that negate the fact that he told them to kill babies?

What was your question again? I didn't see one in your previous post.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


What do you believe?

You must have a belief.

God let everything happen, Chaos?

God made everything happen, Order?

There is no God?

Even if we are all God, that simply means we are all Hitler, thus we all made Hitler happen. Thus all things are still orchestrated by God if we make up God?

No matter what you say you cannot escape the fact that God knowingly lets evil exist.

reply to post by sacgamer25


God let's everything happen, but my God is not the same as your god.

I fail to see how god allowing evil proves your point. You believe he orchestrates everything, so you don't believe in free-will, which means he doesn't "allow" things to happen, he "makes" them happen.

If he orchestrated the killing of those babies, he wanted them killed.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

God let's everything happen, but my God is not the same as your god.

I fail to see how god allowing evil proves your point. You believe he orchestrates everything, so you don't believe in free-will, which means he doesn't "allow" things to happen, he "makes" them happen.

If he orchestrated the killing of those babies, he wanted them killed.

I'm going to ask this again, throw away everything you have ever known and thought about religion and try to understand why both views are not against each other.

You believe that God created a world of free-will, a sort of Chaos only dictated in small part buy our own moral code and book of laws that is meant to help us obey certain rules when using our free will. So you believe that Hitler was merely a result of our free will.

This is at the surface of understanding, because you don't excuse Hitler for his actions by blaming God. This is good, you are correct.

But there is a deeper spiritual truth that the bible teaches. The bible teaches us to think past what we see, and look deeper into what is really happening. You must be able to "See" that we did not choose much of the condition that we are currently in.

Maybe I am assuming so correct me if I am wrong. You believe in reincarnation and evolution of spirit. Meaning you believe that through evolution of spirit you will be reincarnated on a higher plane of existence, closer to the truth with each incarnation, assuming you actually pursue love.

Doesn't that suggest some control that is outside of your own? Who makes the decision on what plane you exist, or even where or if you exist? There has to be something higher than us that makes such decisions?

If you can accept that the when, where, and why are all determined by God, why not just accept that everything is under his control. Right now you are being presented with a choice. You can look at it 2 ways. You can hold onto what you believe or you can accept a higher understanding of free will and foreknowledge.
Really try to absorb this next part.

God placed me in my mother's womb, decided who my mother and father would be. God knew everything that was going to ever happen to me according to the will of others and yet he still allowed each of those situations both positive and negative. Since he placed me here and knew what would happen he is the one for me to blame or forgive for those who sin against me. Since it is impossible to blame God it forces me to look for the lesson. Since the sin that was against me was known by God and allowed by him, there must be something that I can learn or some way that I can use my pain to help others.

By the same token God put every obstacle that has ever come to me in front of me. I have always been where he wanted me and have made the choices he knew I would make. So now when I look back at my sin I no longer sit in judgment of myself. I know that God put me there, knew my failures, and let me fail. Since God himself directed my life knowing that I would sin, I know that he has forgiven me.

Since Jesus promised me I have God's unconditional love I know that although I felt away from God's love at times that he was always there. God was faithful even when I was not.

If I said God put me in the bank, presented me the option to rob the bank, God knew through foreknowledge that I would indeed Rob the bank, and sure enough I robbed the bank. Who is to blame?

The reality if you can accept it is I should blame myself, the bank should blame God for allowing me to be in that position. Do you see the bank employees really need to forgive God for allowing that to happen, so they can be one with God? I must repent for myself even though I know God has forgiven me, because he loves me unconditionally.

This is why Paul says I can do anything but not everything is good for me. God loves us unconditionally and would never allow us to do anything which would separate us from his unconditional love. This is universalism, believing that God forgives everyone, anything that they do as a result of God's loving gift, free will.

You have free will to make a choice but God is the author of the choices that will be put in front of you. This is not meant to make one accept that they should be free from guilt, what it should do is allow one to accept forgiveness from God for anything done against love.

If you still can't understand, then I don't think I can explain myself any clearer.

reply to post by sacgamer25


You tell me to throw everything I have learned about religion away, yet you refuse to do the same. Very ironic.

The bible was put together to create religion, that is a fact.

I don't believe in higher planes of existence, I believe this is the one and only plane of existence in which I will reside forever. The only think that can become "higher" is my understanding of this plane.

I control my own destiny, nothing controls when or where I will end up in my next life. Think of it like gravity, nothing "controls" it, it is just a part of nature that has a set of rules that have always been. The same goes for reincarnation, it is just a part of nature and nothing "controls" where and when you will be reborn.

God loves us unconditionally and would never allow us to do anything which would separate us from his unconditional love.

If you believe in hell, then his love isn't unconditional and he does allow us to do things that separate us from his love. If he didn't allow us to be separate from his love, then why did he create hell?

Or do you not believe in hell?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

You tell me to throw everything I have learned about religion away, yet you refuse to do the same. Very ironic.

The bible was put together to create religion, that is a fact.

I don't believe in higher planes of existence, I believe this is the one and only plane of existence in which I will reside forever. The only think that can become "higher" is my understanding of this plane.

I control my own destiny, nothing controls when or where I will end up in my next life. Think of it like gravity, nothing "controls" it, it is just a part of nature that has a set of rules that have always been. The same goes for reincarnation, it is just a part of nature and nothing "controls" where and when you will be reborn.

God loves us unconditionally and would never allow us to do anything which would separate us from his unconditional love.

If you believe in hell, then his love isn't unconditional and he does allow us to do things that separate us from his love. If he didn't allow us to be separate from his love, then why did he create hell?

Or do you not believe in hell?

I believe Hell is only an emotional state of mind and this too is supported in the bible. Hell as a place of judgment after this world is contradictory to end times prophecy the way I read and understand the prophecy.

The only other question I have is, have you finally realized that assuming God is in contol in no way diminishes my ability to love.

When you are presented a situation it is random and you make a decision to love or not to love. You base your decision on what you will.

When I am presented the situation it was presented to me by God. Since God put the situation in front of me, I know God's will is to love, so I do his will and accept his outcome. Since I did his will, his will is done. If I love and you do not, then it is you being judged because I have received God's love for obeying his son. If you love and I do not, then I must repent and find the lesson in my wrong, because it was God himself who presented me with the option to love, and I failed, thus emotionally separating myself from the love I could have felt.

You see I believe God is love, and Love is in control, and that everything is for the purpose of love. Love has become my God, and the Spirit of Love my Lord. I wish to do nothing but to obey my God, Love.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Do you not think I also had to throw away everything I believed? It is not like you can Google the concepts that I say are clearly presented in the bible. But yet their they are clearly presented.

reply to post by sacgamer25


So Why do you think love would order the Hebrews to kill babies? You keep going in circles, how do you not see it? Love would NEVER allow or order the killing of innocent babies. If love is in control of everything then why is there so much evil?

Like I said, cognitive dissonance. It is VERY strong in you. I'm going to go ahead and cut my losses now because you will obviously never get it.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Religion taught you to accept everything in the bible. How exactly has that changed? How exactly have you dropped that when you still accept everything in it?

Cognitive dissonance.