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GOD - The Slave Massa

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posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


There is no contradiction and you should understand this without explanation.

One is a matter of the physical world, the other a matter of spirit.

In the physical world we have all sorts of masters/bosses/police/government…

In the spiritual we have but one master the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Love that is our lord whom we must obey. There is no other spirit but the Spirit of Love that should be considered Lord.




posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


It's so obvious that you are making your own context to fit your bias.

Paul says that slaves should obey their masters in everything. Do you agree with that?



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So you agree that God allowed slavery to happen then?

He gave those people in Sodom and Gomorrah free-will as well, but that didn't stop him from smiting them. Why would he allow slavery but not sodomy?

Why didn't he say slavery was bad and why would he compel Paul to tell slaves to accept their situation instead of fighting for their freedom? Isn't that the reason Yahweh freed the Hebrews from Egypt, because they were enslaved? Funny that he would help the Hebrews escape slavery then tell other slaves to accept their fate without a fight.
edit on 7-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Careful, you are pointing out things our Christians would gladly gloss over, LOL. That is very inconsiderate of you!



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


First if something happens, then by default God allowed it. It could even be said that he orchestrated it and we could even go as far as to blame/credit him for all the good and the bad. After all in the OT God claims to be the author of everything good and bad.

What you have seen as life has not been what you imagine it is. You think you have control. So ask yourself what do you have control over?

Your birth, your death, your parents, the lessons you learn as a child, the sins committed against you, the religion you were taught to believe, the random people you meet, the people you work with (unless you’re the top boss), the kids you went to school with. When did you have control? Even if it is all random this too is (allowed) by him. So whatever you believe all that has happened has been allowed to happen.

So what do you have control over? You decisions. Past that you have no control. Do you control the outcome of your decisions? Do you control how others react to you? Do you control how others perceive what you say? Do you control the religious views of others? Do you have any control over my will other than that which I may allow you to have?

So either God is in control (as I believe), or no one is in control, complete chaos. Either way it was all allowed to happen.

You see you never have control, and the only time the father gives you control is when you decide love is the only way. If you have control than you should understand what I am saying about those who do not have control. If you do not understand this reply than you still don't have control.

I believe you understand but you are still saying things that are against love, they are your religion. What I want you to see is there could be as many as 7 billion different religions but only one Spirit of Love. I believe that spirit to be Christ Jesus but even that is religion. We must obey the Spirit first and develop our religion second.

No one has control until they have been willing to give away control to pursue love. Maybe for you, you didn’t feel as you were giving anything away, because it could also be perceived as receiving above what you previously attained. This is what is usually termed enlightened, Christians who have been enlightened call it being born again.

Just one question about the Old Testament to someone who believes in reincarnation. You believe in reincarnation, thus you believe in the evolution of Spirit. If you believe in evolution of the Spirit on an individual level, why can you not accept it on a world level. Where 4000 years ago men weren’t ready to let go of their slaves, so God in his patience gave laws. Jesus Christ said that all the old laws were shadows of the laws to come. So maybe don't kill your slave was first, Christ said to love your worldly masters, Paul said it was smart to obey your earthly masters and avoid the rod, The levitacal Code said free all your slaves but we don't obey. Obviously we weren't ready?

Why do those who believe in reincarnation and evolution of the spirit not believe in evolution of the law that goes hand in hand with the evolution of the spirit? You can believe that God orchestrated the good and bad so that we may evolve in Spirit, while only shedding what was mortal to begin with.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


It's so obvious that you are making your own context to fit your bias.

Paul says that slaves should obey their masters in everything. Do you agree with that?



If I am making my own context as you suggest than you should be able to use scripture to prove me wrong. I believe I have been given the meaning of scripture directly from the Holy Spirit, if I am wrong you should be able find a true contradiction, not merely something that you see as a contradiction because I failed to explain myself in a way that you could understand.

I believe in the past in my ignorance I have said some things against scripture, nothing major, but ignorant still. But I don't believe that what I say currently leads to any contradiction.

I would be willing to start a thread but I just don't think I can handle the immaturity (not talking about you) on ATS. So if you can find a contradiction in my words please point them out.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So you agree that God allowed slavery to happen then?

He gave those people in Sodom and Gomorrah free-will as well, but that didn't stop him from smiting them. Why would he allow slavery but not sodomy?


Have you ever considered the actual text of Sodom and Gomorra or just what the church says? These men were not just homosexuals they were a rape party, every male of the city young and old. They formed a rape party to go and rape whoever was there. If the same stuff was happening in Gomorra, I would agree with God's Judgment.



19 The two "angels" arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge!

We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.

12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”


How could anyone read the text and come out believing that God destroyed Sodom because of homosexuality? Because the church coined the phrase Sodomy and no one questioned them? Well I think it is time we question their authority, don’t you?



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So he completely destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for rape, but allowed the Hebrews to rape and kill thousands on their conquests, even ordering them to do so?

What about Rome? They threw innocent Christians and those they enslaved into the Colosseum to be torn apart by tigers and bears. How is that any less worse than rape? And if you really believe the Roman army didn't rape and kill women on their conquests, you are delusional.

It seems like god likes to pick and choose who he does/doesn't want to kill, no matter their allegiance or good deeds.

Why was Rome allowed to grow so large for so long when they never worshiped Yahweh? They were blasphemers for over a thousand years, yet they were allowed to rape, pillage, murder, and expand their empire to most of Europe and the middle east. All while worshiping pagan gods and godesses.

Yahweh was a funny fellow wasn't he?



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I provided the scripture, but you refuse to see the contradiction. You keep asking for scripture but deny anything I bring forward. It's called denial, and that's exactly what you are doing, denying the contradiction is there when it's as plain as day.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So basically you have a loop hole for anything and everything you can't understand or explain? You are in denial of the obvious, and as a defense mechanism you say "god did it". That's the easy way out.

You say you hate religion yet you vehemently deny that the book the biggest religion is based off of is wrong. How can you hate religion yet support the book it is 100% based off of.

So much for your "everything other than love is religion" comment. Looks like you don't believe that after all.

By the way, I DO have control over my life, as do you. Me and you being in control is God being in control. If you really believe you are not in control, then you do not believe in free-will. You can't have it both ways, yet somehow in your head you do, that's called cognitive dissonance.
edit on 7-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Not only did he know it was going to happen this way. It was all prophesized about; the anti-Christ is the Catholic Church. Put that in context with OT from Daniel on through all the end times revelations in the New Testament including the book of Revelation and they all reveal history from about 300 ad until present. The church that supposedly changed scripture did not and it has been known by reformationist for many years. The Catholic Church, Hitler, WW2, it's all in there. Then you have to understand the OT to understand "The End Times" …

If the OT is right the only thing left is for mankind to let go of religion and to embrace love. This is the prophecy that Israel, which is in reality all mankind according to Jesus, will return to worship the Lord. Everyone will worship love and love one another.

Even if I am wrong isn't it worth a shot? The people who wrote the bible foresaw an evolution of man towards love. Astrologists have predicted the evolution of man towards love, Age of Aquarius. Maybe the end of the Mayan Calendar was the end of an age, maybe we are entering into an age of love. A lot of people seem to be waking up in their own way. So who knows, why not?

Let your God be big enough to usher in the age of love and maybe if we all ask in love together we will receive through our prayer the love that we seek for us and all mankind. So that we may all recognize that we are sons of God born to overcome sin and let The Spirit of Love be our Lord, Christ Jesus. Amen



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So basically you have a loop hole for anything and everything you can't understand or explain? You are in denial of the obvious, and as a defense mechanism you say "god did it". That's the easy way out.

You say you hate religion yet you vehemently deny that the book the biggest religion is based off of is wrong. How can you hate religion yet support the book it is 100% based off of.

So much for your "everything other than love is religion" comment. Looks like you don't believe that after all.

By the way, I DO have control over my life, as do you. Me and you being in control is God being in control. If you really believe you are not in control, then you do not believe in free-will. You can't have it both ways, yet somehow in your head you do, that's called cognitive dissonance.
edit on 7-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


It is not my problem for you to believe what I say. It is your problem to prove what I say wrong without bias for your religion. Every time you quote the bible I give you a viable and honest answer, that satisfies the condition of your question. What I say does not contradict Christ or the Bible, what I say only contradicts your religion.

As long as you hold your religion as sacred you will never understand mine. This is not really necessary for us to understand one another but since I understand you, I was hoping to help you understand me. If that is not possible that is something that is up to you.

I am really only talking about what I believe to be the way in which Christ was teaching us to love one another, everything else is religion to me.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


You say you hate religion yet you vehemently deny that the book the biggest religion is based off of is wrong. How can you hate religion yet support the book it is 100% based off of.

So much for your "everything other than love is religion" comment. Looks like you don't believe that after all.


"Original Sin" is not a concept in the bible. All 40'000+ denomenations of Christianity, Muslims, Jews, and everyone who believes in reincarnation (it is the belief that lower forms of humans can't achieve enlightenment like the more spiritually evolved humans). Even atheist although they might be more moral than the religious believe that sometimes its ok to use our free will against love.

So ya everyone believes that we sin because we are sinners, just like the church said. No one believes we are children of God sent to overcome sin. What did Christ Say. "Go and Sin no more". Since he believed in me I will believe in him. You can believe whatever you would like.

But the Christian church is no more a representation of Christ than sin is a representation of Love. Christ taught that we are to love one another, and that the only way to do this is to defeat sin. The church says that because of "Original Sin" this is not possible.

The church is the contradiction. You walk in they say "Welcome you’re a sinner that’s why you are here, It's ok we forgive your sin and so does God. You will never be free from sin so just trust that Jesus will save you. Now go out and love each other, which is now virtually impossible, because how can a sinner who lives in fear ever find the ability to truly love?" You see you go to the church because you are looking for salvation but you only find more sinners.

If you have staked your salvation on a religion based in sin, woe to you, for love you will not find until it is love that you pursue. The one who pursues love, overcomes sin, everyone can trust the Christ, not a lie will be found in his words.

Stop telling me "Original Sin" was founded by the bible. The God of the bible is very much against sin, even when he gives it to the people who asked for it. Oh yes you can ask God for sin, and he will allow it, but you will not find the fruit of love until you let go of everything that causes you to stumble.

All pastors are men who believe in "Oriinal Sin", how can the blind/sinner lead the blind?

edit on 7-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So you have a religion? Because I certainly don't.

If you have a religion then you do not believe in love, because everything besides love is religion right? Cognitive dissonance, look it up.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So you have a religion? Because I certainly don't.

If you have a religion then you do not believe in love, because everything besides love is religion right? Cognitive dissonance, look it up.


I have a personal experience with the Spirit of Love. One that cannot be denied.

My only religion is to believe that Christ Jesus is the Spirit of Love.

Believing that Christ is the Spirit of Love only elevates love itself above me. Because I still falter at times so I consider the Spirit of Love as Lord. The Christ was perfect in love, something that I hope someday I will also be.

How is believing that Christ is the Spirit of Love, and thus doing exactly what he said, against finding love? It is not possible to believe in the Christ by pursuing his words and not find love. Regardless of what he was, he taught love in its most perfect form. True unconditional love, and it was his belief that God whom he referred to as father loved us the way he loved us. Every one of us.

This is what you still fail to see. Believing in Christ the way I do is not against scripture. If it is not against scripture than it cannot be against love. Because Christ taught perfect love. My master, my lord is the man who taught perfect love, and died to defend his belief, that you always choose peace over war. Love would consider giving one's life for peace more profitable than taking one's life for peace.

Christ choose to give his life for peace, so did Gandhi, so did MLK, so did JFK, so do I. What will you do?

I wish you could try to understand, not that you would be converted but simply so you could understand the possibility. When you understand the possibility of what I say you could see how even the Gnostic viewpoints are religion. However the Gonostic viewpoint was also to accept others religion as personal, and although they may debate from their writings it appears they were more open to others religious views. So long as the principles of love and the spirit of love were present "In" a man the Gnostics except the experience as "Spiritual", something that becomes one's testimony, one's religion.

My testimony is Christ is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Love. This does not even conflict with your belief about love, it only conflicts with what you personally think about Christ, your religion.

Religion should not separate us but you continue to use language that shows that we are separate. While I keep claiming that we are one. You simply must "look past" your own testimony, your religion, and accept the religion of others that are only here to love you.

Not to convert you, more rather to inspire, as my understanding of your religion inspires me.

edit on 8-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So you think ordering the Hebrews to rape, pillage, and enslave cities and towns is "love"? Please explain how that is even close to being love.


1 Samuel 15
2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”


How is ordering the Hebrews to not spare anyone, including children and infants, considered love to you? What could those infants have done to deserve death, and why did Yahweh think they deserved to die?

And the animals? Were they evil as well?

ETA: You keep implying that I have a religion. I don't, so stop saying that I do.
edit on 8-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So you think ordering the Hebrews to rape, pillage, and enslave cities and towns is "love"? Please explain how that is even close to being love.


1 Samuel 15
2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”


How is ordering the Hebrews to not spare anyone, including children and infants, considered love to you? What could those infants have done to deserve death, and why did Yahweh think they deserved to die?

And the animals? Were they evil as well?


This is what the Israelites wanted. They wanted to be ruled by an earthly king, well earthly kings settle dispute in war. So you have a problem with God saying you want vengeance yes go to war and take vengeance and kill them all since that is what is in your hearts to do.

For if the Israelites truly loved God they would have obeyed Moses and wickedness would not have entered their hearts. Moses said that they were to love God, love one another, and not to kill. But the Israelites had it in their hearts to seek revenge and murder, so God gave them over to their desires.

Does not freewill dictate that God gives everyone over to their desires, at least within the confides of man's own law for men.

God ordered them to do what was in their hearts to do, God allowed them to do what was in their hearts to do, and this is really just semantics. Weather he orchestrated it or allowed it, it happened. Why do you find it so hard to believe in a God that lets men murder each other when their hearts are set on doing it?

War either happens by God's will or out of Random Chaos, either way it was allowed.

edit on 8-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


There's a HUGE difference between letting them over to their desires and ORDERING AND COMMANDING THEM TO KILL BABIES.

What don't you understand about that? You can apologize all day long, but that doesn't take away the fact that the Israelites claimed to do what they did in Yahweh's name! You are so blind to the obvious that you somehow justify it in your mind. Why?

The Israelites did what they did in Yahweh's name and acted upon Yahweh's orders! He ordered them to do that, he didn't "give them over to their desires" as you claim.

Read the passage again, "This is what the LORD says", not "this is what the Israelites want so the LORD lets them". There is a huge difference and you are creating your OWN CONTEXT.

Even if Yahweh did "let them over to their desires" as you say, then why would Yahweh choose a people so bloodthirsty as his chosen people? If he is a god of peace then he wouldn't have chosen a people who desired war over everything else. You are running yourself in circles.

Blind blind blind. Could you REALLY see Jesus saying that or anything like that? He said to love your enemies, not murder and enslave them! Geez.
edit on 8-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



1 Samuel 8
When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as Israel’s leaders.2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not follow his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.

4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have.”

6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.”

10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers.

14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the LORD will not answer you in that day.”

19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”

21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. 22 The LORD answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”

Then Samuel said to the Israelites, “Everyone go back to your own town.”

God through Samuel predicted what life would be like for Israel if they choose a King. They choose a King and God gave them exactly what they said they wanted. You like most people have a serious misunderstanding of the OT.

It's funny you believe in free will but won't accept that God let's these things happen on purpose. I believe that God orchestrates everything and still blame Israel for seeking an earthly King and Kingdom apart from God. You see this as a contradiction, I see it as beautiful to behold.

My beliefs are firmly based in scripture both the OT and NT. I have not made up my own religion.
edit on 8-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So you justify god ordering the Israelites to kill innocent infants. Thanks for clearing that up.

This is what religion does to the mind, it turns off all logic and replaces it with justification and blind faith.

The fact that god chose people who desired war and conquest is very telling of what type of god he is, a bloodthirsty one.

"Killing is okay. Raping is okay. Genocide is okay. All as long as my version of god allows it." Your god is not a god of love, not even a little.

You know why you refuse to accept that? Because you fear punishment from your god, you fear hell. There is no fear in love, so your god is not love. I can see this is going nowhere, so I'll leave you to your delusion. It's so frustrating to see someone who claims to believe in love call killing babies loving and justified.

Your god ordered the killing of babies, I hope you're happy with that fact. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.



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