The whole Gay/Lesbian issue just took a step in the wrong direction

reply to post by markosity1973


Yes, exactly sexual abuse can lead to all sorts of confusion. But its a different thing to actually knowing that , that is what you are.

When you know what you are. You cannot change or rather should not have to.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I've always known I like girls waaaay before I knew my dinker had a purpose other than for peeing out of.

It seems that some gay men weren't sure they fancied other males till they reached puberty, which I find odd.

And still other gay men, it would appear, were 'turned gay' due to an unwanted or accidental sexual encounter with another male at an impressionable age.

The English comedian/author/polymath/celebrity Stephen Fry was sodomised by an older male whilst a young boy in boarding school.

And, of course, now he's gay.

I find that interesting.

There are highly religious homosexuals that don't believe in Gay Marriage and believe it is a sin against god, if they could 'alter' their sexuality, it seems they would be the first candidate

Likewise, two boys could be molested, one could end up Gay and one straight, how do we know the molestation caused it?

reply to post by Agit8dChop



If you are "born that way" then you cannot be raised towards a sexuality. Being "born that way" implies that no human efforts can alter it.

so i am unsure what the uproar here is.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

If you are "born that way" then you cannot be raised towards a sexuality. Being "born that way" implies that no human efforts can alter it.

so i am unsure what the uproar here is.

Because many people don't believe we are 'Born this way' and its just a choice,

reply to post by Darth_Prime



My oldest son is gay. My youngest son is very masculine (his life's ambition at 15 is to "grow a lumberjack beard"). Same parents, 1 is gay, the other isn't. Explain that within the paradigm you stated above

OH look another thread about gays and lesbians.

Another opportunity for me to spread the news about an evolutionary explanation.

So HERE it's:
www.news-med ical.net - "Kin selection hypothesis" may explain homosexuality from an evolutionary point of view...

I'm improving peoples knowledge about this. Get a rush of dopamine.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

My oldest son is gay. My youngest son is very masculine (his life's ambition at 15 is to "grow a lumberjack beard"). Same parents, 1 is gay, the other isn't. Explain that within the paradigm you stated above

Not mine, i am Gay, i've always said you are Born this way, i'm saying many people claim that we are not 'Born' gay that it's a choice we make,

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

My oldest son is gay. My youngest son is very masculine (his life's ambition at 15 is to "grow a lumberjack beard"). Same parents, 1 is gay, the other isn't. Explain that within the paradigm you stated above

Not mine, i am Gay, i've always said you are Born this way, i'm saying many people claim that we are not 'Born' gay that it's a choice we make,

You don't know that you were born that way. You didn't even consider a sexuality until you were a certain age. I spent too much time with my female cousins as a kid - cried when i couldn't wear a dress. Maybe if that exposure had continued i may have ended up a cross dresser. I don't remember this period it is only proven through photograph.

You don't know what caused you to attract to the same sex. Nobody does at this point. Theory vs theory, but it sounds like you have your mind made up because it works for YOU. Some of is would like there to be more research to know more about it and possibly suppress it. It does not seem to be what nature intended, or we would have able to reproduce under those circumstances. sorry to say. If you say you were born gay then you are also saying you were never meant to create offspring. That cannot sit well if i imagined it correct. I would rather believe that luck didn't have it my way but there are ways to cope and deal with it.

I know your going to say everything i said was wack and im heartless or what ever but Im only looking for the logical explanation without all the liberal crap. Equality??? get in line!

reply to post by FirstCasualty


You logic falls apart under the scrutiny of the link provided above on the evolutionary advantages of homosexuality among a more narrow segment of any culture.

The presumption that we must go on is that human behavior is natural until proven otherwise. Homosexuality, therefore, must be natural. But like many other natural behaviors (I am looking at you, booger eaters), not all members participate.

Originally posted by FirstCasualty

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

My oldest son is gay. My youngest son is very masculine (his life's ambition at 15 is to "grow a lumberjack beard"). Same parents, 1 is gay, the other isn't. Explain that within the paradigm you stated above

Not mine, i am Gay, i've always said you are Born this way, i'm saying many people claim that we are not 'Born' gay that it's a choice we make,

You don't know that you were born that way. You didn't even consider a sexuality until you were a certain age. I spent too much time with my female cousins as a kid - cried when i couldn't wear a dress. Maybe if that exposure had continued i may have ended up a cross dresser. I don't remember this period it is only proven through photograph.

You don't know what caused you to attract to the same sex. Nobody does at this point. Theory vs theory, but it sounds like you have your mind made up because it works for YOU. Some of is would like there to be more research to know more about it and possibly suppress it. It does not seem to be what nature intended, or we would have able to reproduce under those circumstances. sorry to say. If you say you were born gay then you are also saying you were never meant to create offspring. That cannot sit well if i imagined it correct. I would rather believe that luck didn't have it my way but there are ways to cope and deal with it.

I know your going to say everything i said was wack and im heartless or what ever but Im only looking for the logical explanation without all the liberal crap. Equality??? get in line!

to be fair i can create offspring, i can utilize a surrogate with my sperm

i know for certain i never made a choice in life to be gay or not, i was never attracted to females, not once,

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


And just what are the on the evolutionary advantages of homosexuality?

reply to post by Darth_Prime


I'm not implying that you were ever attracted to females. Its possible that your sexual attraction to males was built before you became sexually attracted to anything at all. Most of the influences a child is exposed to in the first couple years is what decides how all the major connections are made (this is also the period I'm sure most of us have little to no memory of) For what ever reasons, and I say that meaningfully because we don't know the reason's a lot of people end up becoming a lot of different ways, the combinations of experiences at different times that we could all experience is phenomenal. No two people end up exactly the same way minus a few CORE traits that are likely a product of the society that we are raised in. MOST fear what they don't know, don't like to see harm done to others, get angry when they feel wronged, wish to make more money than people they know, aaaaand men marry women and vice versa.

If we wanted to be a gay only society it would be quite simple just by making sure that the children from birth only seen same sex couples. To survive in that state we would need to do gene manipulations and what not so my fiction tale here is relying on the fact that we won't instinctively attract to the opposite sex to save our undoubtedly dwindling species, because we have found a way around it. Heteros will be the 2% just from mathematical odds of all the combinations of experience that would lead a child to his or her choice of orientation.

but if i made that choice, i could 'unmake' that choice? regardless of what my brain my be 'programed' if i was not born with certain chromosomes and DNA etc, i could turn straight?

i was brought up with people trying to 'brainwash' me straight, i don't want to go into details, because not only they horrific, just stir up emotions, but i'm still Gay, there have been research and reports on how our brain is different etc,


don't take this as me telling you you shouldn't think a certain way, i just believe and know myself i was born this way

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

And just what are the on the evolutionary advantages of homosexuality?

To be fair, i mentioned that another poster had provided this link when I threw that out there.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
OH look another thread about gays and lesbians.

Another opportunity for me to spread the news about an evolutionary explanation.

So HERE it's:
www.news-med ical.net - "Kin selection hypothesis" may explain homosexuality from an evolutionary point of view...

I'm improving peoples knowledge about this. Get a rush of dopamine.

edit on 8-6-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by FirstCasualty

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

My oldest son is gay. My youngest son is very masculine (his life's ambition at 15 is to "grow a lumberjack beard"). Same parents, 1 is gay, the other isn't. Explain that within the paradigm you stated above

Not mine, i am Gay, i've always said you are Born this way, i'm saying many people claim that we are not 'Born' gay that it's a choice we make,

You don't know that you were born that way. You didn't even consider a sexuality until you were a certain age. I spent too much time with my female cousins as a kid - cried when i couldn't wear a dress. Maybe if that exposure had continued i may have ended up a cross dresser. I don't remember this period it is only proven through photograph.

You don't know what caused you to attract to the same sex. Nobody does at this point. Theory vs theory, but it sounds like you have your mind made up because it works for YOU. Some of is would like there to be more research to know more about it and possibly suppress it. It does not seem to be what nature intended, or we would have able to reproduce under those circumstances. sorry to say. If you say you were born gay then you are also saying you were never meant to create offspring. That cannot sit well if i imagined it correct. I would rather believe that luck didn't have it my way but there are ways to cope and deal with it.

I know your going to say everything i said was wack and im heartless or what ever but Im only looking for the logical explanation without all the liberal crap. Equality??? get in line!

to be fair i can create offspring, i can utilize a surrogate with my sperm

i know for certain i never made a choice in life to be gay or not, i was never attracted to females, not once,

mM
I didn't address the offspring. Yes obviously you CAN produce offspring, but it won't be genes split between you and your actual partner that the child shares. And if the surrogate does not stay to complete the mother role then likely the mothers genes will not be nurtured as it would be the original host of those genes. Ya ok that was a little more philosophical than logical perhaps.

What is true is that in order for there to be a free flow of children provided to the entire gay community to offset their inability to create their own would take a fair sized organization. We would be producing humans for... human aid? for equality?

Originally posted by FirstCasualty

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by FirstCasualty

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

My oldest son is gay. My youngest son is very masculine (his life's ambition at 15 is to "grow a lumberjack beard"). Same parents, 1 is gay, the other isn't. Explain that within the paradigm you stated above

Not mine, i am Gay, i've always said you are Born this way, i'm saying many people claim that we are not 'Born' gay that it's a choice we make,

You don't know that you were born that way. You didn't even consider a sexuality until you were a certain age. I spent too much time with my female cousins as a kid - cried when i couldn't wear a dress. Maybe if that exposure had continued i may have ended up a cross dresser. I don't remember this period it is only proven through photograph.

You don't know what caused you to attract to the same sex. Nobody does at this point. Theory vs theory, but it sounds like you have your mind made up because it works for YOU. Some of is would like there to be more research to know more about it and possibly suppress it. It does not seem to be what nature intended, or we would have able to reproduce under those circumstances. sorry to say. If you say you were born gay then you are also saying you were never meant to create offspring. That cannot sit well if i imagined it correct. I would rather believe that luck didn't have it my way but there are ways to cope and deal with it.

I know your going to say everything i said was wack and im heartless or what ever but Im only looking for the logical explanation without all the liberal crap. Equality??? get in line!

to be fair i can create offspring, i can utilize a surrogate with my sperm

i know for certain i never made a choice in life to be gay or not, i was never attracted to females, not once,

mM
I didn't address the offspring. Yes obviously you CAN produce offspring, but it won't be genes split between you and your actual partner that the child shares. And if the surrogate does not stay to complete the mother role then likely the mothers genes will not be nurtured as it would be the original host of those genes. Ya ok that was a little more philosophical than logical perhaps.

What is true is that in order for there to be a free flow of children provided to the entire gay community to offset their inability to create their own would take a fair sized organization. We would be producing humans for... human aid? for equality?

Indeed, there is also adoption, likewise we know that it's not a 'Free Flow' of children, just like straight couples not everyone desires children too

There's a lot of back and forth over whether people are 'born gay', or 'choose' to be that way inclined. I myself am of the belief that our sexuality is defined by our genetics in most cases.

However, there are tthings which can happen to people as they grow up which can affect the way their sexuality develops. For example, a person of the Catholic faith who wishes to become a Priest and deny themselves of marriage with a female may have terrible issues with their (unresolved) sexual desires. Not to taint all Priests with the same brush, but the Catholic church has ongoing issues with the sexual abuse of children.

Is someone born a pedophile or rapist? In my opinion no. Sex should be of love and giving. Taking power over another for sexual pleasure is wrong on so many levels, the most obvious being that no consent is given. Take away normal healthy sexuality from someone (even by choice as in the Catholic Church) and that suppressed energy is going to rise up.

With the current state of our society (not necessarily any worse than at any other time in history regarding the family unit), there are plenty of abused, unwanted and mistreated children who are growing up in unhappy abusive marriages, or with single parents who may struggle to support a child and themselves. If gay couples can provide a nurturing environment for children, there is no reason for them to be denied the rights of being parents.

Can a gay family which provides an environment conducive to the upbringing of children really be worse than a dysfunctional family that struggles to prioritise their children over addictions and other weaknesses? If the children are truly wanted, that is a step up from plenty of babies born from a bottle of alcohol or an overheated sexual congress between virtual strangers.

There are women having children in their late thirties and early forties as well as couples not choosing to have children. There are (as there always has been) teenage mothers who will have several children to several different fathers, as there are predatory males who leave a trail of seed, but have not the responsibility to be a father to their children.

If people want children, really want them, and are prepared to offer what is required for a family, then they should not be denied of either marriage nor the rights of parents, regardless of their sexual orientation.

reply to post by cuckooold


Indeed, we should not be denied any rights/privileges/benefits that any other 'Human' has,

especially with the Separation of church and state, Holy laws should never influence nor dictate the "laws" in place, regardless if you agree with them or not,