The whole Gay/Lesbian issue just took a step in the wrong direction

reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

Maybe it is you that thinks like an ape. Yes, sex was only for making babies. Not to mention, if a hetrosexual couple are going to have anal sex then, the man might as well be gay and the woman might as well be with another woman. There is my answer to that.

No doubt I have an ape-ish thought now and then seeing as how I evolved over time from something similar.
Yes, heterosexuals "might as well be gay" if they have anal sex. That there is one radically well thought out response. I imagine you believe if I masturbate I am eventually going to get warts too. Thank the lord folks like you are the eency weency minority. Go get laid, have some oral sex, and go sit on the porch after and have a cig. You may find yourself a little closer to heaven.

CJ

Originally posted by markosity1973
reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

 

And I guess your expectation is that we listen to and accept your mindless opinion as fact instead.

Here is an actual fact about homosexuality for you;

Your facts are only facts to you and those who support the LBGT community. I have no expectations for you, you couldn't meet one expectation I would have for you.

I love debating with people like this. It provides such swift and inexpensive entertainment Looks like his username could not be closer to the truth!

The truth to you is the reflection of yourself.

In the television age we've also witnessed the freakish behavior, the religious intolerance and chauvinism, the fake healing, false prophesies, homophobia and exploitation (never mind the child abuse).
These people really do come across like a bad circus side-sideshow, out of touch with any reality.

Clearly some people escape from fundamentalism and cults at a young age, while others are drawn to the behavior.

But they can be helped and drawn to moderate, loving religion, if they admit they have a problem.

I bet most people would rather be told they have a lesbian as a child, rather than a child with a genetic aberration to join a cult for life, who will cut out unbelieving family members who don't share the delusions.

We are what you think we are, but you are the same to us. Now if you really want to get technical, the LBGT movement is a cult within it's self. Just like globalist. When you make a decision to believe something, you have essentially conformed to a cult, therefore we are all in cults if you really want to go there. Everything you say is complete nonsense.

Can anyone present a non supporting view of Homosexuality without looking like a raving lunatic?

If this is a raving lunatic , I would hate to see what you do when you really encounter a lunatic. A honest raving lunatic would be chasing you with knives, wanting to kill you for your orientation, that isn't me buddy.

sadly that has been the case of the last couple 'Gay Topics'

a lot of good discussion exist within the drivel, likewise a lot of support, that seems to get buried by ignorance

Thank you for complimenting me on my successes in defending my beliefs, in which I do have the right. Thank you, again!

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

 

Maybe it is you that thinks like an ape. Yes, sex was only for making babies. Not to mention, if a hetrosexual couple are going to have anal sex then, the man might as well be gay and the woman might as well be with another woman. There is my answer to that.

No doubt I have an ape-ish thought now and then seeing as how I evolved over time from something similar.
Yes, heterosexuals "might as well be gay" if they have anal sex. That there is one radically well thought out response. I imagine you believe if I masturbate I am eventually going to get warts too. Thank the lord folks like you are the eency weency minority. Go get laid, have some oral sex, and go sit on the porch after and have a cig. You may find yourself a little closer to heaven.

CJ

Come on now. This is the everyday norm for most people. So, if you want to go do those things, do what you wish, but this describes what most people EVEN in middle school have experienced. Been there done that, there is more to life than just sex. Besides, as far as cigarettes go, I prefer being smoke free. I am not suicidal like that.

Originally posted by mindlessbrainpower89

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

 

Maybe it is you that thinks like an ape. Yes, sex was only for making babies. Not to mention, if a hetrosexual couple are going to have anal sex then, the man might as well be gay and the woman might as well be with another woman. There is my answer to that.

No doubt I have an ape-ish thought now and then seeing as how I evolved over time from something similar.
Yes, heterosexuals "might as well be gay" if they have anal sex. That there is one radically well thought out response. I imagine you believe if I masturbate I am eventually going to get warts too. Thank the lord folks like you are the eency weency minority. Go get laid, have some oral sex, and go sit on the porch after and have a cig. You may find yourself a little closer to heaven.

CJ

Come on now. This is the everyday norm for most people. So, if you want to go do those things, do what you wish, but this describes what most people EVEN in middle school have experienced. Been there done that, there is more to life than just sex. Besides, as far as cigarettes go, I prefer being smoke free. I am not suicidal like that.

I agree there is more to life than just sex. But that wasn't my point. Life is hard. It is ok to enjoy life. The dogma of the Catholic church states you need to be ashamed and feel guilty for doing so. I am not ashamed. And as for the cig, a post-coital drag wont kill you, unless you are having sex 24/7...three times in a night is tough gig as it is...

CJ

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

Originally posted by mindlessbrainpower89

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

 

Maybe it is you that thinks like an ape. Yes, sex was only for making babies. Not to mention, if a hetrosexual couple are going to have anal sex then, the man might as well be gay and the woman might as well be with another woman. There is my answer to that.

No doubt I have an ape-ish thought now and then seeing as how I evolved over time from something similar.
Yes, heterosexuals "might as well be gay" if they have anal sex. That there is one radically well thought out response. I imagine you believe if I masturbate I am eventually going to get warts too. Thank the lord folks like you are the eency weency minority. Go get laid, have some oral sex, and go sit on the porch after and have a cig. You may find yourself a little closer to heaven.

CJ

Come on now. This is the everyday norm for most people. So, if you want to go do those things, do what you wish, but this describes what most people EVEN in middle school have experienced. Been there done that, there is more to life than just sex. Besides, as far as cigarettes go, I prefer being smoke free. I am not suicidal like that.

I agree there is more to life than just sex. But that wasn't my point. Life is hard. It is ok to enjoy life. The dogma of the Catholic church states you need to be ashamed and feel guilty for doing so. I am not ashamed. And as for the cig, a post-coital drag wont kill you, unless you are having sex 24/7...three times in a night is tough gig as it is...

CJ

Well, if you want to do that, that is fine. Not me though. Honestly, I don't care what you do, as long as you don't do it around me. Call me crazy, call me what you will, but this is me, this is who I am.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Just to add to my last post. I know there are some people that may see me as heartless but, I honestly do care about all of humanity. It's just we have to meet in the middle. There has to be boundary lines drawn where neither side crosses. Love and peace is the ultimate goal we all strive for. At least for those who care.

Originally posted by mindlessbrainpower89
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

Just to add to my last post. I know there are some people that may see me as heartless but, I honestly do care about all of humanity. It's just we have to meet in the middle. There has to be boundary lines drawn where neither side crosses. Love and peace is the ultimate goal we all strive for. At least for those who care.

I am glad to hear these are your goals, commendable in every way. Live your life as you see fit -I applaud those that are comfortable within themselves. Just make sure you let others do the same.

CJ

reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

Well, I'm not going to compromise my membership on ATS to get into a personal bickering match.
There are much more advanced anti-gay and religious people I have debated with, without getting personal.

I stand on what I've said about fundamentalist religions and cults, and that the science of the brain is also taking an interest in them.
That's just a fact, whether I mention it or not.

Yeah, and there are people who would describe the LGTBI movement as a cult.
I wouldn't agree with that however, because it includes people from virtually all religious and cultural backgrounds, who often agree on very little, apart from being broadly attracted to the same sex.
However, gay people should keep discussion alive, whether its on gender issues or political differences.
We should make sure that we never become like a conformist religion or cult.
Sure, there might be some urban gay culture that is global in major cities, but behind that there are local sub-cultures.

With religious fundamentalists I'd be debating about gay issues today, but tomorrow I might see them at each others' throats over some theological difference.
They actually do have a lot in common from whichever church, mosque or temple.
Yet they never celebrate any commonality.
They will try and convert each other or reject each other over minor differences.
They will condemn each other to eternal hell-fire.
There's no world-wide alliance of cults and fundamentalist churches or sects.

reply to post by CJCrawley


And common sense would tell you that all gay people realize it when they are teens because they hit puberty then. When did you first think of yourself as straight? Certainly not before your teens because we don't think about sex until puberty duh.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by CJCrawley

 

And common sense would tell you that all gay people realize it when they are teens because they hit puberty then. When did you first think of yourself as straight? Certainly not before your teens because we don't think about sex until puberty duh.

The irony. This is why I am done with this debate. People like you can't even understand the entire point without getting emotions involved. Peace.

as much as i do think being gay/lesbian is a choice, influenced, as all choices are, by a person's environment. a choice that develops over time through brain plasticity (yes, people can mold their brains through conscious and unconscious thoughts and actions), but a choice nontheless.

however, what i find disturbing is that these parents are mandating that their child be a "lesbian" from the get go. what if he/she doesn't want to be, or isn't, gay?

with the same breath they claim it isn't a choice, they choose to label their child's sexual preferences before he/she is even born.

more than half of my friends are gay, and i find their descriptions of their childhood experiences and feelings over time more than suggest it to be a gradual neurological and hormonal change. as synapses change and are pruned, and the old connections cease to be, it gives the impression of always being in that state to the one experiencing it.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

Although I agree that the campaign was ill-advised and highly problematic, I'm a bit confused about the notion of "choice" on the one hand, and hormones and synapses on the other.

It seems you postulate an environmental argument for homosexuality in gay people (fair enough), but yet you say it is a choice?

So when do you think gay people choose to be attracted to the same sex, and they cannot respond sexually to the opposite sex?

Or do you perhaps think gay people are just very naughty or disappointed straight people, and that they're just pretending to be turned on by the same sex to peeve everybody off?

What about all the gay people who've tried their utmost to be straight, and went from aversion therapy to hormone therapy to try and be straight?
What about gay people who tried to ignore it and married somebody of the opposite sex, only to live a double-life?
What about gay religious people who struggle with the fear of hell daily?

I bet there's very few gay people of my generation in SA who haven't tried hard and sincerely to be straight.
We didn't hear about gay people on SA television, and nobody spoke about it, yet we were gay.

People judge gay people so easily.
They don't even know what a struggle it is.

Why haven't gay brains changed like plastic with their deepest and most intense longing to be straight?

I guess eventually everyone must make peace with what they are, although they may not have chosen it.

reply to post by halfoldman

a purely nature or purely nurture standpoint on the issue would be naive.

certain situations arise, and one's responses to those situations affect the brain. plasticity is greatly increased in kids and young adults, this is why children/teens have a greater susceptibility to influence, they can learn languages faster, and preferences can shift more dramatically.

i never said switching back and forth was easy or fast, but that conscious desires over time influenced by the interpretation of different interactions affects what sex one finds attractive. your brain's synapses and the choices you make are rarely driven by logic. claiming that the logical choice (and therefore the choice that SHOULD happen, if it weren't for nature) of a persecuted group is to abandon that which causes their persecution would simultaneously validate all the world's religions. they must either hold to their convictions (what i believe happens), or by nature they ascribe to a religion and cannot convert because that's who they are.

i can't claim to know exactly what you went through, and i don't judge you or anyone for being gay. as i mentioned, literally more than half of my friends are either gay or lesbian. these are the people i spend time with and love.

reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89


Perhaps you should read who wrote the text I quoted before making bold claims

Originally posted by mindlessbrainpower89

Originally posted by markosity1973
reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

 

And I guess your expectation is that we listen to and accept your mindless opinion as fact instead.

Here is an actual fact about homosexuality for you;

Your facts are only facts to you and those who support the LBGT community. I have no expectations for you, you couldn't meet one expectation I would have for you.

I love debating with people like this. It provides such swift and inexpensive entertainment Looks like his username could not be closer to the truth!

The truth to you is the reflection of yourself.

In the television age we've also witnessed the freakish behavior, the religious intolerance and chauvinism, the fake healing, false prophesies, homophobia and exploitation (never mind the child abuse).
These people really do come across like a bad circus side-sideshow, out of touch with any reality.

Clearly some people escape from fundamentalism and cults at a young age, while others are drawn to the behavior.

But they can be helped and drawn to moderate, loving religion, if they admit they have a problem.

I bet most people would rather be told they have a lesbian as a child, rather than a child with a genetic aberration to join a cult for life, who will cut out unbelieving family members who don't share the delusions.

We are what you think we are, but you are the same to us. Now if you really want to get technical, the LBGT movement is a cult within it's self. Just like globalist. When you make a decision to believe something, you have essentially conformed to a cult, therefore we are all in cults if you really want to go there. Everything you say is complete nonsense.

Can anyone present a non supporting view of Homosexuality without looking like a raving lunatic?

If this is a raving lunatic

, I would hate to see what you do when you really encounter a lunatic. A honest raving lunatic would be chasing you with knives, wanting to kill you for your orientation, that isn't me buddy.

sadly that has been the case of the last couple 'Gay Topics'

a lot of good discussion exist within the drivel, likewise a lot of support, that seems to get buried by ignorance

Thank you for complimenting me on my successes in defending my beliefs, in which I do have the right. Thank you, again!

of course you have the right to your beliefs, i have not and will not attack anyone for that, but they should never cross into 'Discrimination'

i think many people have misguided views on Homosexual, you don't have to believe i was born gay, i know i was, and you don't need to 'accept' me, but the end of the day i am Human, as you are Human, i deserve every right any other Human gets

I know people who realised they were gay in their infancy. Incidently no one taught them and their parents were straight!

I feel for them its an instinct. Just as its an instinct for straights to fancy the opposite gender.

They arent doing it to rebel or hurt anyone intentionally.

And Im not too sure about " gay conversion therapy".

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
I know people who realised they were gay in their infancy. Incidently no one taught them and their parents were straight!

I feel for them its an instinct. Just as its an instinct for straights to fancy the opposite gender.

They arent doing it to rebel or hurt anyone intentionally.

This is the most frustrating part about being gay. Sure, we can handle that not everyone likes us for who we are, but to be constantly told that it was a 'choice' gets old after a while.

And I'm not too sure about " gay conversion therapy".

Here is a video about a boy who was told or rather trained to be less effeminate. And they tried to make him not gay.www.youtube.com... Later they regretted trying to change him.

edit on 8-6-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)

When I was younger I considerd this conversion therapy. I read all the info and it is based on the idea that there are 5 (if I remember correctly) reasons that one becomes gay.

They believe that by facing this reason, praying lots and pretty much forcing yourself to believe that you are straight you will become attracted to women. Problem is that I read about 30 testimonies of people who had been 'cured' they all admitted that they were still 'tempted' i.e. they were still attracted to men and they all beat themselves up over it.

Here is an article on the group 'Exodus ministries' whom I had dealings with.

I concur, and i find the same, it becomes tiresome, i am all for freedom of thought, speech, expression etc. but constant attacking, and misguided perceptions takes it's toll, where it begins we defend and it seems as if we are 'attacking' peoples right to think, which is not the case

I think in select cases conversion gay therapy can work. But definately not for everyone.

If it is psychological only for some then this method is fine if that is what they want.

But for others for whom, its an instinct, and a very " natural" one then, I think this could do more damage. Not less. Because the shame, is something that should not go with being gay.
I know many gays can be afraid to be openly gay due to hate crime. And I think its wrong as it isnt something you choose to be.

There should be a survey done of gay parents, Im sure the survey would show that children of gay parents do not neccessarily turn out gay. That its not taught or caught.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
I think in select cases conversion gay therapy can work. But definately not for everyone.

If it is psychological only for some then this method is fine if that is what they want.

But for others for whom, its an instinct, and a very " natural" one then, I think this could do more damage. Not less. Because the shame, is something that should not go with being gay.
I know many gays can be afraid to be openly gay due to hate crime. And I think its wrong as it isnt something you choose to be.

There should be a survey done of gay parents, Im sure the survey would show that children of gay parents do not neccessarily turn out gay. That its not taught or caught.

edit on 8-6-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)

There have been many studies done and they all come to the same conclusion;

www.huffingtonpost.com...

There is only one case where therapy might help homosexual people and that is those who were sexually abused as children. Understandably, these people can become extremely confused in their sexuality because of what was done to them before they had time to discover their sexuality naturally.

There are plenty of people such as myself who were not sexually abused have no such confusion as we grew into our sexuality as naturally as a heterosexual person does.