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The whole Gay/Lesbian issue just took a step in the wrong direction

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posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by wiser3
reply to post by Darth_Prime
 


Isn't it strange how so many say it's a choice but when we question when they made the choice to be "straight" they either can't give a "straight" answer or just deflect and avoid the question!


indeed, seems to be a common occurrence,

i mean everyone is free to believe what they want, and i wont be offended if they believe i am making a choice, because i know i didn't select to be gay, i was born this way.

but it seems many utilize that argument to explain 'discrimination' as if you didn't "Select" to be gay you wouldn't have these problems

it's easier to hold up a magnifying glass than a mirror




posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by Darth_Prime
 


No see that's not what I'm getting.
Its not a decision you make one day.
It takes years and years of your surroundings, your environment, your upbringing...
Your life molds you into the person you are, you don't just chose and you aren't just born with it.


I agree with the direction you are going, if I may, I'd like to give a similar but unrelated example.

I often tell people I was born a Metal Head, but I know, that it's not true because when I was born I did not know what music (music on it's own) and the Heavy Metal lifestyle was. As I was growing up, I listened to all kinds of music, but the one that I wound up enjoying was Heavy Metal and Classical Music, and to be honest, I believe it had a lot to do with the way I was feeling emotionally when I heard Heavy Metal or Classical, and thus the response of my feelings and emotions.

With that being said, I say, to each his own, if you feel the need to justify how you came to be who you are, then you're not so sure yourself. Just be yourself, and don't ask me what I think because you might not like it, just know that in the end, I don't really care, I don't really want to know, as long as we all keep it cool that's all that matters.

---------------------------------

Also, I'd like to add, I agree with some gay friends (male and female) (I'm straight by the way) how, the whole homosexuality seems to be commercialized (not sure if that is even the right word) or "popular" in some circles, but they brought it up and I began to notice too, that it is now "cool" to be gay, and there seems to be plenty of "fake" gays that they say is an insult to people who really are "gay" [also, not all agree to that observation, so it's clearly debatable]



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 05:10 AM
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reply to post by wiser3
 


No, its not your CHOICE!

You didn't decide it, your life, your surroundings and experiences moved you in that direction.
But you were'nt born with it! We started on a clean slate and over the years things, interests, people, events made us who we are, gay or straight.

It just happens that a nuclear family (mother and father) is the normal, natural way.
Thus majority of people follow in these steps... a man and a women!

Now and then major things happen like abuse, pedophilia and it pushes the person to homosexuality.
Or maybe, in your younger years you found members of the same sex nicer to you, more friendly to be around and you naturally created this sense of being homosexual. It's not a bad thing, no one is saying it is but its definitely something your life evolved into, not something you were born with... like a cleft lip or blue eyes.




posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by LordDerpingtonSmythe
 


what the hell is half gay?



A bisexual.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 05:17 AM
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does a heterosexual marriage on average indoctrinate offspring to be hetero too?
does a gay marriage on average indoctrinate offspring to be gay too?

I would have a problem with either if they directly try to influence a child one way or the other, but that shouldnt matter because people are born one way or the other right?



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
But I have issues with this 'fact' people trumpet that your born gay or straight.

I believe its more to do with your values and attitudes in your life, your upbringing and that you ultimately trend towards being straight or being homosexual.


There is a Kinsey spectrum, most people fall somewhere a bit off-center with their attraction to guys / girls. I would imagine in a Christian society you would have some gays who were married to women.

Honestly, I think it does have to do a bit with upbringing and personal experience - but there are some gays who honestly do think like a woman. My friend Griffin thinks like Peggy Hill from King of the Hill, and he came from a straight family and everything.

Gays have neurological differences between them and straight folk - in particular, they have a larger Amygdala, which connects the two hemispheres.

The Gay Male Brain

Wikipedia: Amygdala and Sexual Orientation



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 06:23 AM
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Don't get sexual attractions confused with sexual orientation. While we are not born with sexual feelings, we all know that as we mature, those sexual feelings will come. They always do. Therefore, we are born with the propensity for future sexual feelings. Sexual orientation is the most basic and fundamental part of those future sexual feelings. It is at the very core of those feelings. It is NOT the same at all as being attracted to blondes, or big-bottomed women, or liking muscle-bound men, or men with beards. Those kinds of sexual attractions ARE formed during life experiences. I believe that 99% of sexual orientation is decided before birth. I think there may be very rare cases of confused individuals who were exposed to some extreme conditions - but I think this IS rare, and those people usually have many other issues besides just sexual ones.

I understand and agree with the point of the ad campaign, although I think it could have been done better.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


I was born gay! There is nothing you can say that will even come close to convincing me otherwise so don't even bother!

I was born gay!
I live gay!
I will die gay!

I just want to add that even though I am GAY, I am not what many people think of when they (incorrectly) lump all gays in one basket, I service my own car, I have built an extension on my house, I do not sway my hips when I walk nor do I wear makeup of any kind, I am not effeminate but I am gay!
When I said in my previous post that I knew that I was attracted to the male of the species at an early age I was not even ten years old when I knew that males held a special attraction for me! Not that I ever acted out on those feelings, I had my first sexual experience after I had completed my military service by which time I had already turned 20!
edit on 7/6/13 by wiser3 because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/6/13 by wiser3 because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/6/13 by wiser3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


How bout we look at this another way.

A Child that has TWO Parents that Love him... How can that be a Bad thing.


if you don't mind my bluntness, can two women understand and relate to a male mentally or biologically? love is nice and all but love is not going to raise a child by itself. a female has many differences in thought and behavior that conflict with a males, it's not so easy to get past that with just love, and a boy who grows up without a father is far more likely to become violent and angry as he gets older regardless of how much love is given, looking at it from here i think two mothers is no better than a single mom and no father.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 06:59 AM
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But gays realise they are gay at different times in their life. Some realise as young as 4yrs old and others later in life.

This isnt a wrong direction its a fact. People come out of the closet at different points in their life. Depending on their feelings.

Its better that teenagers come out of the closet if they are gay, its fairer to them and their family. Because hiding it is no fun. And not fair to them.

Why should they live a life in fear?.. For what they are. Let them be themselves as soon as they know. Cos they arent going anywhere. You can push them underground but they will always exist. ..

If my children turned out to be gay. Id rather know sooner. I dont like suprises, id rather just get on with it.
edit on 7-6-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


Well . . . I was arguing that homosexuals carry a gene that makes them that way, and if in fact that is true, they should have gone extinct thousands of years ago. Just like we breed bad genes out of livestock. (I am a farmer).

But after I launched that argument here on ATS I was convinced by another poster that I was wrong, because I was a life long opponent to gay marriage. He was successful in convincing me that gay marriage was a good thing.

His theory is that these bad genetics will disappear in our populations if we allow gays to marry each other, since that would prevent them from infiltrating and being under cover int he heterosexual population, and that because of them interacting with each other (male to male or female to female) they would not be producing as many offspring with that atavistic gene.

So it now appears to me if these people decide to chose donor sperm or eggs they will continue to perpetuate the genetic problem which has caused them to invade the heterosexual population in the past when they married and had families and remained in the closet practicing their deviant acts undercover.

So the way I see it, do not let them adopt children, but if they do, they will not be transferring the bad genetics to those children who were fathered by straight parents. But do not let them have access to sperm banks or egg banks in order to share their genetics with the offspring and perpetuate this problem. In my mind their practices are not acceptable, the recent recognition is merely a sign of the decline of Western Civilization as it was in Rome when these practices were openly accepted. Adios Amigos. John



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by CJCrawley
I think the OP may have a point.

I used to think gay people were born that way, but I'm not so sure now.

Years ago I had a conversation with a gay bloke as part of my nurse training (we visited the local LGBT centre).

I asked him at what age did he first realise he was gay.

He replied, "In my teens."

But he hadn't finished; he went on to say that all the gay men he knew said the same thing....not until they were teenagers.

How does that fit with being born gay?

I also had a male patient who was gay.

He didn't at all fit the stereotype....a bit of a roughian, to be honest.

He always put his gay condition down to having been sexually molested by a male paedophile when he was a kid.

I have no idea if this was true, but that's what he said.

I suppose the burden of my song is that this is a complex subject about which not a very great deal is known.


Oh dear, why does every debate on any given gay issue become about whether we choose to be gay or not?

Every human being on the planet is different. We all have different experiences in our lives and we all see the same thing from different angles.

I knew I was gay from the get go. Before I was sexually aware, I just knew I was different. My first crush was on a boy and so was my first everything else. Never been there with a woman and never will because it just doesn't feel natural. Girls are just people to me - they make the most awesome friends but sexually they are inert. No pedohpilia, experimentation or nothing in my personal experience. Just grew up this way.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by markosity1973
 


Thank you for confirming what I have been trying to tell others! But no matter how often we say it people who are not gay and have not experienced being gay from as far back as we can remember will still try to convince us and others that they know better than we do and that we were not born gay!



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by Faust100f
 


Hahaha! Good luck in your endeavours to rid the world of the infestation that is the gay population!

Born this way, here to stay!



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by wiser3
 


No, its not your CHOICE!

You didn't decide it, your life, your surroundings and experiences moved you in that direction.
But you were'nt born with it! We started on a clean slate and over the years things, interests, people, events made us who we are, gay or straight.

It just happens that a nuclear family (mother and father) is the normal, natural way.
Thus majority of people follow in these steps... a man and a women!

Now and then major things happen like abuse, pedophilia and it pushes the person to homosexuality.
Or maybe, in your younger years you found members of the same sex nicer to you, more friendly to be around and you naturally created this sense of being homosexual. It's not a bad thing, no one is saying it is but its definitely something your life evolved into, not something you were born with... like a cleft lip or blue eyes.



Hmm, my life experience vs your convoluted opinion.....

Wonder which has more merit?

Nope, gonna go with my own personal experience here.

Sorry, did not wake up one morning and decide that is was a nice day to be gay. Did not try to kill myself over a choice that I had made, would have just unmade the decision instead. Most certainly did not choose a life that meant I would be treated as a second class citizen at almost every turn.

*Edit* I would also add that my mother swears to this day that when I was born, she sensed there was something different about me. Being catholic, she thought (well more liked hoped) that she had given birth to some pious saint. She was rather disappointed to learn the reality was that I was gay.
edit on 7-6-2013 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:33 AM
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Only thing i would worry about a child raised by 2 mom is not that he will be gay, it just that he would be more feminine than average men, but that is also varies depending on their genes, some are born predisposed with so much testosterone, that it will be hard for them to be feminine.

On the vice versa side, a daughter born to 2 gay men would be brought up with more masculinity than...average women, even if the two dads are "feminine"...

As long as the child is not "nurtured" in a specific way and taken care of, i don't really care. We already have other type of "nurturing" like Sunday school and religious brainwashing, or parents with racist mindset... all these are type of nurturing as well.

I agree this advertisement is shedding bad lights...no point of provoking. its like saying "im gonna raise whatever in my belly in a lesbian lifestyle"



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by luciddream
Only thing i would worry about a child raised by 2 mom is not that he will be gay, it just that he would be more feminine than average men, but that is also varies depending on their genes, some are born predisposed with so much testosterone, that it will be hard for them to be feminine.

On the vice versa side, a daughter born to 2 gay men would be brought up with more masculinity than...average women, even if the two dads are "feminine"...

As long as the child is not "nurtured" in a specific way and taken care of, i don't really care. We already have other type of "nurturing" like Sunday school and religious brainwashing, or parents with racist mindset... all these are type of nurturing as well.

I agree this advertisement is shedding bad lights...no point of provoking. its like saying "im gonna raise whatever in my belly in a lesbian lifestyle"


While I agree that the advert is provocative and could be perceived as poor taste, it is trying to promote the theory that children are born gay by showing a make believe concept that the doctor can somehow tell that this child is a lesbian at birth.

How that links to gay marriage, I am not really sure.

All in all I would agree with the OP that it is not really a step forward in the advancement in the argument of gay marriage as it only inflames the argument of nature vs nurture



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 08:21 AM
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I don't think that ad is helping their cause.

As far as influence on a child I witnessed a scene about 6 yrs ago.
This 2 1/2 yr old has 2 lesbian mothers, one was telling me how she was doing in
preschool. "Oh she's doing great. She even grabbed another girls butt. We're teaching her right."
All I could think was a child of that age wouldn't do that normally.
She was copying what she sees, and they were encouraging it. Even laughing about it.
So I can understand the point the OP was making about the environment influencing the child.

I don't care what people do, as far as marriage or gay rights etc. It's just situations like this that bother me. It didn't seem like the girl had any way of sidestepping the mold her mothers wanted her in. So they can say "We're having a lesbian"



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 08:27 AM
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I can't see a gay person programing their sexual orientation on their children as a good thing.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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The whole LGBT crap is more political. Nothing to do with social awareness. The liberals are using them just as they use the unions.




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