The whole Gay/Lesbian issue just took a step in the wrong direction

Proof or not that they are born that way.
They have what is a " natural" urge to mate with the same gender.

This naturalness may not just be psychological. Or developed out of choice. It may feel to them like a genuine desire to be at one with the same gender.

Why would they rebel in such a way? Its very dangerous to be gay in certain places. I dont think they would do it just out of choice. That isnt to say that there arent gays who are gay from choice.
Infact, when they decide to live a fully gay lifestyle, they make that choice.

When they have tried to be with women maybe it felt uncomfortable for them physically, in which case Id argue its biological and cannot be fixed. Its not as if they are just thinking " Oh I may as well go for men" as if they are choosing between shoes. That is for the actual gay people.

Obviously there is a bisexual spectrum. And on the bisexual spectrum people have what is called choice. I mean they can say I will go with a woman or a man. And make that actual decision if they want. Although the same applies for them its a natural feeling. It isnt something they choose at 4yrs old " Oh when I grow up I want to be a bisexual" its deeper than that.

And therapy wont make their desires go away. Because its not always psychological.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by Rosha

 

I was more referring to

Other humans DON'T have this opposite sex arousal....and that factoid doesn't make them sick sad bad aliens

Look, maybe this issue is a little close to home for you and hey that's fine.
But don't accuse me of inciting hate or infringing on your personal life.
I'm accepting of what ever sexuality you want to be, I never brought my sexuality into this thread or others.

However, no one has offered up any proof or evidence for this 'fact' that your born different and thus are gay.
I find that hard to believe just because you (and others) say it is so. My life experience tells me I never chose to be straight or gay I simply became straight through experience.
Why you have such a hard time accepting that possibility I dont understand. Its not like we're accusing you of being less than human or outcasts, I'm simply saying we were born equal. And through no fault or CHOICE of our own, we became who we are through life experiences.

take it or leave it, but dont accuse me of being some stone age thug type nazi. Cause your barking up the wrong tree.

This whole thread is insulting as far as I am concerned and it has little to do with my personal life and preferences, and more to do with the utter ignorance, anti-intelligence and presumption it has had from the first post.It wasn't you I was accusing..it was I guess, the existence of this thread at all.

I do see the point you are making, however I do not hold to the principle that human beings are born asexual blank slates and then develop into some kind of natural mono-sexuality based on socialization alone. In my life, I have still yet to meet a truly hetero sexual being!

My life experiences, my observation of nature, everything in my socialization has told me were are born - among many other attributes - bisexual beings, and from infancy these dual and often dueling sexual drives ultimately determine orientation. The formation of biological preferences is an observable phenomenon, physically and psychologically.

Mono-sexuality based on social conditioning, physical attractions and psychological acceptability ( their individual personal psychology not group think) does occur but again this is not true for all, some, if not many people, remain bisexual for life. Some consciously and willfully, for some it stays latent.

To my understanding the how what where and why of this process of sexual development is about molecules and their impact on genes - and their subsequent expression - not a matter of personal choice in the first instance.

Socialization as an impact and as I have studied it, has very little to do with gay/straight orientation choices inside the biological sphere, outside of it, yes of course it does have a role, though, as I have witnessed it, its role is not determinative as much as its impact has been observed best as an agent of oppression as relates to the social oppression of choice or as relates to oppression of the natural development of innate sexual drives and need sets as a whole.

I can declare brown eyes a sin, bad, evil ,wrong, abnormal and demand a brown eyed person turn their eyes blue..but it isn't going to happen..sure, they can use contacts to please me, bow to social pressure etc or they ay even desire blue eyes,want them, wish and pray for them....but its still a fact their eyes are blue and that is a matter of inborn biology and DNA expression, epigenetics and ancestral genetic influence..as, to me..is sexuality in the first instance. for me, to say otherwise is to say that sexuality is purely pf psychological origin..when we already know..it isn't. Gender for example, is determined in the same way and similarly, sans choice.



Rosha.

reply to post by FreedomEntered


correction, its not mating.

Verb
(of animals or birds) Come together for breeding; copulate: "successful males may mate with many females".

for the last... friggen... time..

no one is saying its a choice..

where have I said you choose to be gay? that you decided hey.. Im going to be gay.

Because its not always psychological.

So... what % would you put it at being 'natural' or 'psychological'?

My life experiences, my observation of nature, everything in my socialization has told me were are born - among many other attributes - bisexual beings, and from infancy these dual and often dueling sexual drives ultimately determine orientation. The formation of biological preferences is an observable phenomenon, physically and psychologically.

Are you not agreeing with me here?

People are born bisexual (neither gay or straight) at infancy, then sexual dueling determines sexuality.

Isn't that the same as being born with a clean slate and having life experiences turn you into the person you are?

I agree sexuality is not taught. It could be taught.
But its also biological.

And if people think that others just choose what gender they fancy, then they are wrong.
Its an urge, inside of us.

I can think of many celebrities who are gay and have children. And often their children are not gay.
Then you take someone like Cher, who has a lesbian daughter. She didnt condition her to " feel" this way or to have this urge.

Ive also heard that even if someone is a mostly non-gay environment or area and have never mixed with gay people they still know when they are gay. So ... there you go.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


The point is a gay may never have met another gay in their life but still know that they are gay.

It happens! Its very primal for them. As it also is for straight folk.

the only problem with that thought process is what experience can 'make' someone gay? and if two brothers grew up in the exact same environment with exact same experience how come one can be gay and one be straight?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

My life experiences, my observation of nature, everything in my socialization has told me were are born - among many other attributes - bisexual beings, and from infancy these dual and often dueling sexual drives ultimately determine orientation. The formation of biological preferences is an observable phenomenon, physically and psychologically.

Are you not agreeing with me here?

People are born bisexual (neither gay or straight) at infancy, then sexual dueling determines sexuality.

Isn't that the same as being born with a clean slate and having life experiences turn you into the person you are?

No..as, as far as I can tell, the duel between sexual orientations much like the duel between genders and physical genitalia/sexes, stemming from this biological basis of bisexuality, has every chance of forming a 'born gay' human as a 'born straight' person. These duels being inter uterine by nature and usually formed or close to completion by birth, the expression is what comes at birth and soon after..but it is based on that initial duel/cementation of orientation.
When I say we are born bisexual, I mean to say that despite this formation,personal choice and preferences or oppression, can make an impact, as can events in early sexual experiences etc..where as being born with external plumbing, doesn't offer that choice. That's where it seems to end though...and eventually as many latent homosexual people have found out, biology often wins out in the end anyway.



Rosha

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
the only problem with that thought process is what experience can 'make' someone gay? and if two brothers grew up in the exact same environment with exact same experience how come one can be gay and one be straight?

There are some great twin studies on this subject

2nd line.

Ro

Originally posted by Rosha

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
the only problem with that thought process is what experience can 'make' someone gay? and if two brothers grew up in the exact same environment with exact same experience how come one can be gay and one be straight?

There are some great twin studies on this subject

2nd line.

Ro

Indeed, i believe UCLA has done research on Identical twins, one being gay the other not

so you are saying that experience can trigger certain genes or chromosomes to become 'activated' thus making me attracted to men?

what about my femininity?

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
A person attracted to their same sex and a person
attracted to children is two different attractions.

Children are just that, children.
They deserve a childhood; not forced
into adulthood rolls.
It should be a crime to exploit children in
pageants, make-up commercials,
sexual identity or in any other way !
This 'trend' is very disturbing and it seems that the
boundaries are pushed more each day.
Adults using children as
Guinea-pigs for adult agendas is just sick.
Kids are just kids, if you can't accept that
then you are self serving and have a criminally
disturbed mind.

__________________

Everyone is genetically different to each other. How our brain is wired differs from person to person.
Therefore our inclinations differ based on chemical and physical make up.

I dont see whats hard to understand about this....

If people accepted this we wouldnt have found for " thousands" of years gays being persecuted and treated how they are were which was grossly unfair. It isnt some " sin" that they secretly love doing just to annoy right wing Christians and such like .
That is THEM.

Even twins differ in genetics especially inregards to how their brains are wired up. Hence you see them making differing choices, and having different talents in life and so forth.

I am left handed.

Was I born this way, or are all people born ambidextrous, and favour one hand or the other through social conditioning?

reply to post by cuckooold


True, I tried to get my kids to be ambidextrous. I couldnt they just naturally would pick up crayons and pencils with one hand.
So when I tried to take them out of their hand and move to the other hand. They hated this and went into a huge temper tantrum over it. So to be honest, pointless trying. At least I wont be doing that again in a rush

Here's what I believe on this subject.

The majority of gay people are indeed born that way.

It's all about the action of testosterone on the developing foetus.

Male foetuses' brains are sexualised to become masculine.

Female foetuses aren't exposed to testosterone, therefore their brains remain feminine (ie non-masculinised).

Sometimes nature doesn't work so well, so the male foetus - for reasons that aren't entirely clear - fails to produce testosterone, thus their brain fails to become masculinised and remains female. These males are then born with a natural bias toward other males.

The same I think goes for female foetuses but in reverse....their brains become masculinised, and the individual is born lesbian (or primed to become one, at any rate).

We've all heard the expression, "a woman in a man's body" or "a man in a woman's body" which, I believe, is a fairly accurate reflection of what has happened.

However.........

Some people who are ostensibly heterosexual from their earliest years appear to 'turn gay' due to an unwanted/accidental sexual encounter at an impressionable age with another member of their gender.

I do know of such people, so it's a definite phenomenon.

I think the OP has painted himself into a corner in this thread by insisting that ALL gay people become gay due to life experience alone, when it's really only a certain percentage that applies to.

Conversely, not ALL gay people are born gay.

Yeah, here is a story of a man of who tried not to be appear gay. And by appear gay I mean behave in effeminate.
www.youtube.com...

I think there are alot of " straight acting" gays as they call them. But for the ones who are naturally more happy with feminine mannerisms or lesbians happier with more masculine mannersism. I think its very hard for them to hide what they are ever. And it brings about alot of pain for them to have to be something they are not.

reply to post by Agit8dChop

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Now, I haven't seen this billboard I am purely going off the article but this worries me, in the fact that it is almost starting to encourage people to raise their kids towards their sexuality.

If one could "raise their kids toward" a certain sexuality, there would probably be no gay people. Why would someone raise their child such that they would be hated, feared and discriminated against?

I think the purpose of the billboard is to get people to think and talk about the issue. I mean, what's so "scary" about the thought that your kid might naturally be BORN a lesbian?

I think the billboard is thought-provoking and therefore a good thing.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Now, I haven't seen this billboard I am purely going off the article but this worries me, in the fact that it is almost starting to encourage people to raise their kids towards their sexuality.

If one could "raise their kids toward" a certain sexuality, there would probably be no gay people. Why would someone raise their child such that they would be hated, feared and discriminated against?

I think the purpose of the billboard is to get people to think and talk about the issue. I mean, what's so "scary" about the thought that your kid might naturally be BORN a lesbian?

I think the billboard is thought-provoking and therefore a good thing.

i concur, it's the way people view Homosexuality though, it remains quite Taboo, whilst there has been a social progression, there are still Taboo factors,

that's why we have to 'Come Out', it makes it something other than just being 'Normal' you have to 'Come out'

even parents that are more open minded to having an homosexual child, some are still thinking in th eback of their mind, 'what if'

I was here for the beginning of this thread and was infuriated because I
thought the OP was moronic.
After reading for a couple of days and talking to my child (who is gay), I have reached
a point where I must change my opinion on this.

First, there is no conclusive evidence that validates that homosexuality is something
you are born with (I have really tried to find it) and my child really did feel they were born gay.
To me it seems maybe science is a little scared of where this may lead.
If it is found that homosexuality is infact a psychological disorder or can be traced to
a root cause in the physical environment,then maybe it can be treated.
Just saying this makes my pc morality compass spin out of control !

Until it can be proved that the cause of homosexuality is not related to the environment
the child is raised in, Allowing gay couples to raise children and therefore,potentially
influence a childs behaviour towards homosexuality, could be the wrong thing to do.
my pc morality compass just shattered.

My research raises questions for me that, I had not even contemplated before about my own child.
Could it be that I and my wife, even though hetrosexual, created an environment that lead to our
child being gay ?

Regardless of the questions I now have, my child is gay, Its not a problem for me and I will love
and support them until my last breath.

If the ad's intention was to get people thinking, it worked on me.

reply to post by LordDerpingtonSmythe

Originally posted by LordDerpingtonSmythe
Could it be that I and my wife, even though hetrosexual, created an environment that lead to our
child being gay ?

If you, as a heterosexual, created an environment that caused your child to be gay, they why would you consider that a gay couple would be more inclined to create that same environment? It doesn't really make sense. After all, straight people are pumping out gay kids right and left. Always have.