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Islam: What the West Needs to Know (full documentary)

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posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Oh...ok...I should forget that you have made very unambiguous arguments that these people don't know what they are talking about...even though you haven't watched the video...and then I should go back through and give you time hacks...of where they made comments that shed Islam in negative light...ok ...here ya go:

from time hack 00:00:10 to 01:38:56.

That good enough for you?




posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by undo
 



so i'm gonna call BS on the idea that jesus was a muslim in the proper sense of the word.


A "Muslim" in the proper sense of the word is someone who submits to God.
There is plenty of scripture in the NT that shows Jesus submitted to God and taught others the same... so yes, Jesus was a Muslim in the proper sense of the word, as was Abraham and Moses and Noah and all those Old Testament prophets. Not Mohammadan Muslims, but Muslims nonetheless.

Unfortunately, Christians follow a belief that Jesus was God himself... or fully man- fully God. Doesn't change whats in the NT.


this is my position on that subject:
there were 3 gods from which the gods of the bible and quran are based. 2 were sons of a father god. the father god's name was anu. he was heavenly father. normally you would think this is who muslims and jews worship, but this is not so. they worship his son, enlil, who's symbol is the crescent moon and star. i am not kidding you. i can prove enlil is one version of the biblical jehovah in the old testament, but he is not the only jehovah in the old testament. there's another one. one that supports his creation (human beings) and one who does not. remember the book describing adam and eve in the cave of treasures? remember how the bad guy was the one who basically hated humans? well that's enlil. you, my friend, are following the guy who hates you, and as a result, has piled tons of extreme laws on your heads, that even the most accurate robot would have trouble following to a T.

thiinnnnnnnnnnnnk. think think think, deep breath... think! sadly, christians who keep appealing to old testament mosaic laws, regarding the stringent treatment of children and women and homosexuals, are following the same guy. the bible was compiled in such a way to negate the jehovah who created us, in favor of the jehovah who hates us for being human.

put it together. i know you can.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by mekhanics
 


NO. The 'above statement' was to POINT OUT that I have already likened the presenters (interviewees) in the OP vid to Beck, Limbaugh, Jones, and the New Apostolic Dominionists (like Bachmann and Palin, among many others), who are the "Christian" equivalent.

They are ALL crap, as far as I can tell.

Pick your poison. Either way, you're poisoned. You're welcome, "love".



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



ACTUAL PRACTICING MUSLIMS (or Christians or Jews) do NOT necessarily know about the history of their chosen "religion".


So in other words, those with opposing views on a subject in question have the best understanding of the subject.

If those anti-Islamic people on the video have the best understanding of Islam, then....

The Nazis had the best understanding of the Jews.
The Westboro Baptist Church have the best understanding on homosexuality.
The KKK have the best understanding of blacks.
Creationists have the best understanding of evolution.
... and so on.

Ridiculous.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by maddog3n8
 


Okay, I've been starring your posts. But - when you say

Jesus is God....you frakking moron....every hear of the "Holy Trinity"?!?

you have crossed the line into "zealous dogma promoter who has not studied all of this in earnest".

So, sorry, but no more stars for you.

You were doing pretty well there for a few, though.

Thanks for contributing.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Ridiculous is right.

THOSE WITH OPEN MINDS who have conducted careful study and analysis are the 'experts'.



edit on 8-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by maddog3n8
 

you have crossed the line into "zealous dogma promoter who has not studied all of this in earnest".


well theoretically, the hyksos pharaohs were biblical patriarchs and as such were considered god men, not in the sense of men of god, but in the sense of divine humans. god in the body of a man. yeah. the old testament, as i mentioned before, is an egyptian book in disguise with some mesopotamia thrown in here and there.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by maddog3n8
 



There is no question that he is talking about slavery! I will not posit in conjecture why he said these things...but to me...he is clearly condoning the practice! Regardless of what the trolls say, he was for slavery!!!

I agree, there is no real question about it. It's indisputable.

Still, that does not 'excuse' your claim that "Jesus is God" and calling the other member a "frakking moron." Your views are just as narrow as his are.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Agreed.
Thanks.
I fear we are losing the 'balance' of calm heads vs frantic believers.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



THOSE WITH OPEN MINDS who have conducted careful study and analysis are the 'experts'.

I think you mean "careful study and analysis" aimed towards the conclusion that Islam is bad. A lot of things can pass off as "careful study and analysis". It isn't necessarily the truth.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Dude, ALL of the Abrahamic religions are flawed and suspect - by the very nature of their 'holy books' being "revealed", translated umpybillion times from 'dead languages' by various people with agendas, and having no real evidence. That is the bottom line.

And anyone who claims to be an adherent to ANY of them, but is neither a theologian nor a historian nor a linguist is NOT an expert. Some may be very well-read, and well-versed, and have tried out various 'flavors' of God-ism, and decided on one that is CLOSEST to their sensibilities - some may even have gone to seminary or whatever - but that does NOT mean they were taught actual doctrine. It means they were taught what the teachers decided to teach them.

Intelligent, well-educated people will ALWAYS acknowledge that they 'don't really know' and are going by 'the book' or the 'opinion' at which they have arrived - NONE OF THE Abrahamic 3 can be proven.

Sorry.
It is what it is.


edit on 8-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by undo
 


Agreed.
Thanks.
I fear we are losing the 'balance' of calm heads vs frantic believers.


it makes sense. when he said he was god in the flesh, he was telling them he was the pharaoh. and since he was from the root of david, he was the messiah (that's who they were looking for--a guy who owned the planet). not sure the scribes and pharisees knew that by the time he was on the scene. he even gives them his title, alpha and omega, which means first and last. he was the last pharaoh, and presumably, the first pharaoh as well. but this follows the notion that the pharaohs were all osiris continually resurrected and buried and resurrected, to rule again.

then there's the alpha and omega as symbols of power, which are here likened to the rod and staff of jehovah or the crook and flail of pharaoh


alpha and omega. there's more to this story than anyone suspects, a great deal more. so much more, i'm disgusted that it has been withheld from us as a people. i blame the guy who doesn't like humans, personally, but that's assuming he's an actually living entity that hasn't passed on.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 11:56 PM
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and to punctuate that, there's this video that proves we have been left out of a very important loop (i don't necessarily agree with all its conclusions but holey toledo it lays out some pretty strong evidence that something extremely important has been hidden from everyone, deliberately)




posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by maddog3n8
 


I believe all dogma...no matter what the religion is...is designed to control the masses!!! However, I do believe there is a Supreme Being (GOD/ALLAH/JAWEH/ETC...) that is the Supreme force of Good.

Agnostic comes from the Greek word "gnōsis" which means "knowledge" or "to know"...therefore agnostic means, literally "to not know" or "no knowledge".

So why did you say "Jesus was God, you frakking moron"???

I am an agnostic also - it means, like you said, I DON'T KNOW. It means 'I doubt all of it and will continue to look at it without "calling sides". '

You can't honestly claim to be an agnostic AND honestly claim "Jesus was/is God." Doesn't work.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:05 AM
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I'm widely known here as Mr. Confusion, and that I am. I thought this thread would be clear cut. Heated, yes, but at the same time it would address issues of concern and provide some clarity. Well, it hasn't yet, and i can only guess at why. Why not try this:

1.) There is a sizeable number of people in every part of the world who fear, or have experienced, death and destruction by people fighting under the banner of Allah. (Regardless of the reason, or lack of reason, for it.)

2.) This fear could, quite logically, result in policies adopted by the nations of the world which will bring even more death and suffering.

3.) If there is a deisre for peace and cessation of the violence of those claiming to be Muslims, the fear described in 1.) and 2.) should be reduced.

4.) The only people who can reduce this fear are the Muslims themselves, with words and actions showing this fear to be unreasonable.

5.) In the world, and in this thread, there appears no significant effort to persuade anyone that the violence described in 1.) will stop.

6.) My confusion? Why isn't there a significant effort as described in 5.) above?

7.) It appears that the answer is that Muslims can not, or will not, make that significant effort.

8.) If Muslims can control the violence, but choose not to, the fear is justified and Muslims are guilty.

9.) If Muslims can not control the violence, but want it to end, why not offer aid to countries that are trying to end the violence?

It does no good to say there are only a small handful. Daily experience shows that to be incorrect.

It does no good to say to the fearful, they are not following Islam. The violent think they are, and are not being stopped by the "real Muslims."

If all of this is not understood and accepted as the thinking of many non-Muslims, what else is there to say? What do we talk about?

Why not have every Muslim leader in the world make this speech? (modified for the country they are in):



"The killing must stop! The hatred must stop! We are in Britain. We can follow our religion, but we have to follow their laws. You haters are painting Allah as a monster, you must stop. We will not tolerate violence from our community, we will help the authorities stop you. It is the will of Allah.

"And to you non-Muslims, we are sorry for the pain we have caused. We must stop hating each other. We will stop. We beg you to stop. If you agree, meet with us. We will gather here in six weeks. We will pray together, bring your religious leaders. We will share games and stories. We will greet you as friends and brothers, Children of God. We will learn from you, you will learn from us. We are all Britons. God Save The Queen!"

I'd pay money to hear that speech.



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


No...you can do whatever you want with your stars...but if you read...I said I was agnostic...that doesn't mean I didn't study the bible...his assertion was that Jesus wasn't God...I stated...and rightly so by Christian viewpoints....that the Christian dogma was the Jesus is God...the Son of God...part of the Holy Trinity...do I believe that...no...but he was asserting the Bible said otherwise.

Don't give me stars...I don't care...this isn't about how many stars I receive. This is about taking the Bible out of context...to authenticate the Koran!


Read things in context before you cast aspersions on me!!!



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


No..your inserting your own prejudice...she didn't say Islam is bad...how about you stay within the boundaries of what was said!!!



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by undo
 

That is an awesome documentary. Watched it a year or so ago.

Makes a person wonder, eh??



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 



1.) There is a sizeable number of people in every part of the world who fear, or have experienced, death and destruction by people fighting under the banner of Allah. (Regardless of the reason, or lack of reason, for it.)

And don't forget the sizeable number of people who fear and have experienced death and destruction by people fighting under the banner of the American army. Are those lives meaningless to you? What happened to your Christian values?



The only people who can reduce this fear are the Muslims themselves, with words and actions showing this fear to be unreasonable.

There ARE Muslim governments fighting terrorists. Mali is a very recent example. You never seem to bring it up.
Also when do you suppose the American people start taking action to reign in their government thats killing women and kids in Pakistan? Or are they going to conveniently wash their hands off this responsibility?



posted on Jun, 9 2013 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


And you never want to bring up the topic of the documentary!! Which has absolutely nothing to do with American Imperialism!!! How about you stay on topic!!!!



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