Islam: What the West Needs to Know (full documentary)

reply to post by mekhanics

Islam is a “social justice movement,” not a religion, and since Christ supposedly supported “social justice,” that makes him a Muslim.

Erm...what?

I am also a supporter of Social Justice - I am a credentialed Social Worker - social justice is WHAT WE DO!! - and I am NOT - and never will become - a Muslim. NOR am I a "Christian." I am a humanitarian, first, foremost, and ALWAYS.

NO Abrahamic Religion has a monopoly on morals, social justice, or 'absolute truth.' ALL OF THEM are flawed. Jesus was more akin to Buddha and Krishna.

I DO believe Jesus studied in India while he was "away" (as far as bible-lore goes), and that he DID agree with the values of Buddhism and Eastern Gnosticism - and I furthermore think that he survived and recovered from the crucifixion and went to Kashmir to live in exile.

That does NOT make him a "muslim" - although I have read (in Dr Hassnain's book 'The Fifth Gospel') that he possibly sparked EARLY MUSLIM tenets of peace, compassion and love (which obviously evolved later into crusading and tyranny).

What Mohammed did with "ISLAM" is the same thing Paul did with "CHRISTIANITY" - and in my opinion, they are BOTH self-serving, politically savvy, ambitious CON-MEN. NEITHER of them has ANY credibility beyond claiming they had a 'vision' or were contacted by 'an angel' - and that is just plain crap.

The "revealed religions" are BOGUS -- by definition.
Sorry, but, that's my opinion. My EDUCATED opinion.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

He freed them so he could "marry them", or "marry them off", or "adopt them"?
Sketchy.

And, correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't Aisha SIX YEARS OLD when he married her? And all of NINE YEARS OLD when he "consummated" that 'marriage'?

What the heck do you expect she would do with 'slaves' (being as she WAS ONE, by definition). A grown man has NO BUSINESS 'marrying" a 6-yr old little girl and 'consummating' said 'marriage' when she is a 9-yr old little girl!!!
She had some EMPATHY!!!

How can you defend that?
For crying out loud, at least Romeo and Juliet were TEENAGERS!
A NINE-YEAR-OLD is in NO WAY, SHAPE, or FORM, an "eligible consenting partner" in marriage or sex.

One of the young women who was nearly hacked to death by her brother was a teenager. She had been MARRIED OFF by her parents to a 60-year-old geezer who abused her. She complained about the abuse, wept for her stripped dignity and innocence to her family, who said, "Suck it up. This is your life."

She ran away with her boyfriend/lover. Who WAS hacked to death by her brother.
Sick.

How do you explain that, Skorp?

edit on 8-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Your never going to get a honest answer, because as usual, the MDL (Muslim Defense League) will just deflect. Anything negative about Islam will be answered with a few basic lines:

Misinterpretation
Only a minority
Islamophobia

maddog

I suggest you learn some basic timelines!!!!! Mohammad was born when?

don't blow a gasket over this. i know it's frustrating but it's the pursuit of information you're after. if you aren't satisfied with the answers and can feel your blood pressure rising, consider doing something else for awhile. i suppose we could appeal to the buddhists for sanctuary, but not sure how much fatalism will help in this situation.

Originally posted by maddog3n8
reply to post by mekhanics

 

Lets take your stupid search of Youtube...because that's a great source of irrefutable knowledge...and expand it to how many Imams or Islamic Scholars buy into that dogma?

edit on 8-6-2013 by maddog3n8 because: Expanded my thought process

Invalid response.

In Islam, Jesus was indeed a Muslim.

Nice try though, mad-dog.

reply to post by mekhanics


BTW...just so we are the same page...I am agnostic. Let me explain that so you don't twist it around.

I believe all dogma...no matter what the religion is...is designed to control the masses!!! However, I do believe there is a Supreme Being (GOD/ALLAH/JAWEH/ETC...) that is the Supreme force of Good.

Agnostic comes from the Greek word "gnōsis" which means "knowledge" or "to know"...therefore agnostic means, literally "to not know" or "no knowledge".

Again, your off topic...because you haven't watched the video...therefore all your comments means exactly Jack and S%%%%...and Jack just left!!!

Originally posted by maddog3n8
reply to post by mekhanics

 

BTW...just so we are the same page...I am agnostic. Let me explain that so you don't twist it around.

I believe all dogma...no matter what the religion is...is designed to control the masses!!! However, I do believe there is a Supreme Being (GOD/ALLAH/JAWEH/ETC...) that is the Supreme force of Good.

Agnostic comes from the Greek word "gnōsis" which means "knowledge" or "to know"...therefore agnostic means, literally "to not know" or "no knowledge".

Again, your off topic...because you haven't watched the video...therefore all your comments means exactly Jack and S%%%%...and Jack just left!!!

Relax

reply to post by mekhanics


Show me in the Koran where it says that?

From the rebuttal...

…. The greatest crime, the greatest “sin” of Mohammad in the eyes of the Christian West is that he did not allow himself to be slaughtered, to be “crucified” by his enemies. He only defended himself, his family and his followers; and finally vanquished his enemies. Mohammad’s success is the Christians’ gall of disappointment …. He did not believe in any vicarious sacrifices for the sins of others.

This hits the nail on the head.
The Christians were to live with the principle of "turn the other cheek" (not that they actually practice it)... but Muslims were allowed to fight against the enemy, like the Old Testament figures. Mohammad was a warrior prophet like Moses and wasn't willing to go down without a fight.

reply to post by mekhanics


the blaze?
REALLY?

Okay, even I admitted that the interviewees in the OP video could be equated with Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and the freaking "Dominionists".

I even thanked you for your link to the blog!!!

But when you use 'theblaze' as a source, sorry, you are, in my book, immediately dismissed as NEITHER credible nor properly educated.

GLENN BECK IS NOT A JOURNALIST - he is a joke.

reply to post by mekhanics


jesus was a semite, like most arabs and jews. that means he was part white european/caucosoid and part black african. since most pharaohs were also a mix of indian and mongoloid, there's a real good chance he was also indian and far eastern. jesus was also a supporter of women. when you bring this up to a fundie muslim, however, they claim those verses which depict jesus supporting women, were added by roman catholicism. the problem with that is, roman catholicism was just as anti female as islam. so i'm gonna call BS on the idea that jesus was a muslim in the proper sense of the word. you don't bring peace to the world by treating 50% of its population as inferior lifeforms.

reply to post by undo


LOL...thank you for your concern!

I am very adamant about people defending there beliefs w/facts. Clearly, these two hockeypucks can't do so...and think that I am too stupid to sift through their subterfuge.

I am probably going to call it a night...as this is becoming a "Oh yeah...well my Daddy can beat up your Daddy" diatribe!!!

Be Well!!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by mekhanics

 

the blaze?
REALLY?

Okay, even I admitted that the interviewees in the OP video could be equated with Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and the freaking "Dominionists".

I even thanked you for your link to the blog!!!

But when you use 'theblaze' as a source, sorry, you are, in my book, immediately dismissed as credible and educated.

GLENN BECK IS NOT A JOURNALIST - he is a joke.

The above statement was structured for viewers mind in order to discredit my link and to take the eyes off from the OP.

Thanks love

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Holy cow. I mean, holy pig.
PROJECT MUCH?

Of ALL the people on this forum, it seems to me that I am among the MOST inquisitive and open to discussion - I had NO OPINION about Muslims, nor did I pay ANY attention to them, until 9/11. SINCE THEN, I have done duly diligent research (LONG before I joined ATS) and I have sincerely sought out 'real' information.

You have not only failed to watch the OP in the vid, you have also failed to refute it credibly.

WHY are you defending Islam, skorpion?

I defend neither Islam nor Christianity nor Judaism. I defend THE DISENFRANCHISED and OPPRESSED.
Uniformly. Wherever they live. People are VICTIMS of 'religious dogma'.

reply to post by wildtimes

You have not only failed to watch the OP in the vid, you have also failed to refute it credibly.

I will not watch the video until you first establish what makes these anti-Islamic people on the video "experts"?
And secondly what makes them better "experts" on Islam than actual practicing Muslims, who would have a far superior understand of the subject?

I dismiss the source of the video for the same reason you dismiss certain sources as "the blaze".

wait before you go, watch this

this is an iranian lady with police officer, stopping women in the street to correct their attire. note at the 1:12 mark, a guy walking by in jeans and a t-shirt, lalala, not a care in the world, meanwhile the females are being grilled inquisition style by some ladies who look suspiciously like catholic nuns, and carted off to the dreaded "bus" for further interrogations and jail time. oh dude, do not let this happen to the planet. it's like 2 totally different cultures, one for the men, where they can do pretty much anything they want and are basically free spirits, that dress and behave like free people, and then the women, are like ......it's like, i dunno how to express how bad this looks

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Actually, as I stated in my reply to mekanics...it doesn't.

How can you comment on a rebuttal, when you haven't watched the video?

Because, and the irony here is very ironic, you will not admit that nothing in that video was misrepresented!!! Because if you did watch it, then you would have to defend it!!! Plain and simple!!!

So in essence, you refuse to listen to what was said and then comment that what was said was wrong!!!

Your kidding me with this, right?

You really think that the people on this website are that stupid?

reply to post by undo

so i'm gonna call BS on the idea that jesus was a muslim in the proper sense of the word.

A "Muslim" in the proper sense of the word is someone who submits to God.
There is plenty of scripture in the NT that shows Jesus submitted to God and taught others the same... so yes, Jesus was a Muslim in the proper sense of the word, as was Abraham and Moses and Noah and all those Old Testament prophets. Not Mohammadan Muslims, but Muslims nonetheless.

Unfortunately, Christians follow a belief that Jesus was God himself... or fully man- fully God. Doesn't change whats in the NT.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

And what makes them better "experts" on Islam than actual practicing Muslims, who would have a far superior understand of the subject? (And I'll keep bringing this up until someone answers)

Here's your answer:

ACTUAL PRACTICING MUSLIMS (or Christians or Jews) do NOT necessarily know about the history of their chosen "religion".

MOST of them have NOT read their own "holy books" -- or studied them with critical thinking and accurate translation in mind. It has been my experience - and is now my understanding - that the 'trouble-makers' like myself know MORE about the Bible, Torah and Koran than MANY of the 'adherents.' You and logical have admitted this yourselves:
"They are ignorant." = 'the extremist violent Muslims'.
But 'they' appear (just like "Real" non-denominational 'Christians') to be zealous, war-happy, violent, and 'vague' about what their "not religion, but spirituality" represents. They are EQUALLY suspect, and EQUALLY dangerous in this 'non-committal' approach to dogma. JUST READING A "Holy Book" does NOT make a person 'well-versed', knowledgeable, credible, or "correct".

ALMOST ALL OF THEM simply hear what their "imam" or "preacher" or "pastor" or "priest" says -- OR, they read the books and 'decide' that their personal interpretation is peachy......which indicates that they are either too arrogant or too unable to attempt to digest philosophical and historical treatises, or to read through the many, many available writings of real "EXPERTS" in the fields of history, theology, anthropology, philosophy, and sociology.

reply to post by maddog3n8


Going by the synopsis... the video contains the same old arguments that I have seen before as videos, blogs and forum posts and I've spent a good amount of my online time refuting them. Go through my posting history.

If you believe the video contains a unique argument that I am unaware of please give me the time marker or post a transcript. Just don't expect me to sit through 90 minutes of a documentary to find it.

Click here for more information.