Fluoride in drinking water.

Yep, back to the old argument that "people don't know how to take care of themselves, so we'll do it for them." Though to be fair, there are communities in the USA who have voted it out of their water system.

People also don't need bleach to survive, and they don't ingest it because their body can handle it in small amounts. Unhealthy teeth are a personal concern in my opinion. If a person can't take care of their own teeth, there are consequences. It's a personal responsibility issue in my opinion, and fluoridated toothpaste seems more than adequate for teeth.

I can understand a virus being a public health concern, but a person with an abscess or jaw infection would probably not affect the general public. And most people around here have some missing teeth, especially the older folks, but they still seem to enjoy life =)

Anyways, I don't know how much further I can go on this topic lol, I think that was a lot covered so far

reply to post by Philippines

Though to be fair, there are communities in the USA who have voted it out of their water system.

Thank you for being fair. Let's be a bit more fair. There are communities which have voted to have it in their water system.

People also don't need bleach to survive, and they don't ingest it because their body can handle it in small amounts.

Right they ingest it because it's really good at killing microorganisms that can make you really, really ill. That's why water is chlorinated in some places.

I can understand a virus being a public health concern, but a person with an abscess or jaw infection would probably not affect the general public.

Really? Who pays their medical bills if they can't do so?

Originally posted by Philippines
Yep, back to the old argument that "people don't know how to take care of themselves, so we'll do it for them."

That is not the argument at all (though it is clear from this thread that some people are completely clueless about their personal healthcare).

The argument is that government has a responsibility for the welfare of the people, and since a healthy population is a strong working population, some form of contribution to the welfare of the people is ultimately profitable for us all.

.

Harvard study

“Fluoride seems to fit in with lead, mercury, and other poisons that cause chemical brain drain,” Grandjean says. “The effect of each toxicant may seem small, but the combined damage on a population scale can be serious, especially because the brain power of the next generation is crucial to all of us.”

EPA lists Fluoride as a neurotoxin

Chemicals with Substantial Evidence of Developmental Neurotoxicity

.

reply to post by R0CR13

Harvard study

That is not exactly a Harvard study. It was a metastudy of 27 studiesdone in China and involved very high levels of natural fluoridation. They also admit that the data used for the metastudy is not completely reliable.

EPA lists Fluoride as a neurotoxin

No it doesn't. It is on a list of potential developmental neurotoxins to be studied in a program to establish a database.

That "Substantial Evidence" means there was a report from more than one laboratory. It says nothing about the validity of those reports.

(3) substantial evidence: reports from more than one laboratory.
The chemicals in the latter group will be especially useful for vetting protocols that
have been proposed as screens for developmental neurotoxicity

Did the anti fluoride people all go on vacation at the same time? I could hear the crickets chirping from outside my house!

flouride is just poison. It's a way to softkill the sheep

reply to post by Sankari


Surely you would agree that people have the right to choose wether they are medicated or not. It is not plausible for you to suggest that people simply collect their own water for drinking. In many places this is simply not possible and in others it is illegal..

and you think this stuff is good for you.

Good thing they put fluoride in the water supply all over the United States of America, including here in Boulder where I live. In a study published July 20 online in Environmental Health Perspectives, a US National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences’ journal, the researchers found, amongst other things that: The children in high fluoride areas had significantly lower IQ than those who lived in low fluoride areas.

libertyblitzkrieg.com...

Looks to me like a great way of dumbing down a population...

reply to post by purplemer


Following your link to here, they go on to further state:

When considering their consistency with numerous animal studies, it is very unlikely that the 37 human studies finding associations between fluoride and reduced IQ can all be a random fluke. The question today, therefore, is less whether fluoride reduces IQ, but at what dose, at what time, and how this dose and time varies based on an individual’s nutritional status, health status, and exposure to other contaminants (e.g., aluminum, arsenic, lead, etc). Of particular concern is fluoride’s effect on children born to women with suboptimal iodine intake during the time of pregnancy, and/or fluoride’s effects on infants and toddlers with suboptimal iodine intake themselves. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, approximately 12% of the U.S. population has deficient exposure to iodine.

They are comparing it with the "consistency with numerous animal studies" without saying EVER what the doses were. Plus, I didn't know we could measure animal IQ.

Also, that it is "very unlikely the 37 human studies.....can all be a random fluke". How far apart were these studies done all in Asia? Was it all natural fluoride, or were they fluoridating the water?

Only 37 studies done ever?!? Or only 37 that show what they are wanting to write about? I'm sure if we dug deep enough, we would see MANY studies done on fluoride. Meaningless's town had a study done with another town and one of them wasn't fluoridated. I would love to see that data, but, unfortunately, he/she does not want me to know in which are they live in for fear of a Saskatchewan guy knowing. (OS anyways).

(1) Average IQ of High F group (92.02 + 13.00) is significantly lower than average IQ of Low-F group (100.41 +13.21).

Is that + really that far off? They are stupid.....give or take 13.21 IQ points for both groups. That would make them close to even if you went one way, and really far apart if you went the other way. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally posted by spartacus699
flouride is just poison. It's a way to softkill the sheep

edit on 28-6-2013 by spartacus699 because: (no reason given)

Table salt is a poison too. Where is your source?...or did you forget to add the words, "I believe" in front?

Originally posted by Sankari

Originally posted by Philippines
Yep, back to the old argument that "people don't know how to take care of themselves, so we'll do it for them."

That is not the argument at all (though it is clear from this thread that some people are completely clueless about their personal healthcare).

The argument is that government has a responsibility for the welfare of the people, and since a healthy population is a strong working population, some form of contribution to the welfare of the people is ultimately profitable for us all.

edit on 11/6/13 by Sankari because: typo...

So if the argument is that the government has a responsibility for the welfare of the people, and since a healthy population is a strong working population:

How can you measure the effects of fluoride on the following (in the USA):

1. Unemployment rate (over 20 years)
2. Overall health of the population (over 20 years)
3. Average "profit" for us all because of fluoride

I also agree with purplemer about the choice of labeling. People should have a choice of what they drink just like what they eat.

If the governments really cared about health of their people, why not put vitamins and minerals in the water instead of fluoride? Would you agree water soluble vitamins and minerals which have known positive health effects would be better to add than fluoride for people's health?

reply to post by Philippines


The only problem I can see with that is having too much vitamins/minerals in your diet can be harmful. How do you regulate that and teach people what the maximum amount of vitamins/minerals they should have after drinking a cup of water, 2 cups, etc.? At least for fluoride, it is hitting the teeth, and the most harm (at treated conditions) would be fluorosis of the teeth as present data states.

Besides toothpaste, what else do people consume/use that would cause them to ingest more fluoride?

The same cannot be said for vitamins/minerals. I get what you are saying, and I do agree with it, but how do you make sure that you are not making someone sick by giving them too much iron, vitamin d, vitamin a, etc? You would have to know their diet and regulate their water intake tailored specifically to them...fluoride on the other hand, the only way that we do ingest it is in the water, toothpaste is meant to be spat out.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by Philippines

 

The only problem I can see with that is having too much vitamins/minerals in your diet can be harmful. How do you regulate that and teach people what the maximum amount of vitamins/minerals they should have after drinking a cup of water, 2 cups, etc.? At least for fluoride, it is hitting the teeth, and the most harm (at treated conditions) would be fluorosis of the teeth as present data states.

Besides toothpaste, what else do people consume/use that would cause them to ingest more fluoride?

The same cannot be said for vitamins/minerals. I get what you are saying, and I do agree with it, but how do you make sure that you are not making someone sick by giving them too much iron, vitamin d, vitamin a, etc? You would have to know their diet and regulate their water intake tailored specifically to them...fluoride on the other hand, the only way that we do ingest it is in the water, toothpaste is meant to be spat out.

When it comes to water and salt -- both can be toxic if you ingest enough. Ironically, the human body also needs water and salt to live. The human body also needs vitamins and minerals to live. Of course, all of these body requirements to be healthy need to be done in moderation. Any excesses of these substances and the body will do its best to cleanse itself of those substances.

Ingesting Fluoride is not needed for any healthy function of life and it accumulates in the bones, which could result in skeletal fluorosis. According to mainstream science, fluoride applied directly to the teeth (as in fluoridated toothpaste) is sufficient for protection of dental caries.

Why add fluoride to the water? In case people don't brush their teeth? In case their toothpaste does not have enough fluoride?

This is going back to "leaders" making decisions for other people for what purpose? Again, I'm a believer in personal responsibility. If a person does not want to drink fluoridated water then they should have that choice. Just like a person who does not want to ingest vitamin/mineral pills, they have that choice too.

I don't agree with individuals making the decision on what others ingest when the people have no choice or say in the matter.

reply to post by Philippines

I don't agree with individuals making the decision on what others ingest when the people have no choice or say in the matter.

In the US you either pay for bottled water or you pay water and sewer so you are wrong you do have a choice but nothing in this life is free.

If by chance someone does get their water for free then they really do not have a complaint or at least they shouldn’t. Only a moron would complain about something they get for free.

reply to post by rickymouse


um no. There is no use for fluoride in the human body. It harms the thyroid. It's in bones because fluoride is tightly bonded to calcium. You should do some research before you talk. There is no good ratio of fluoride either. It will disrupt and replace iodine in systems until it finds calcium. You only pee out like thirty percent of what you intake? I think. But yes I do agree with you on one thing. It should be taken out of water.

reply to post by Phage


You don't know much about chemistry do you. It isn't listed much because most studies have been placed under water. Literally. It helps teeth topically. It replaces iodine in the system and causes thyroid issues until it finds calcium. Eighty percent of the population is iodine deficient because of fluoride. You remind of the actor you chose for your picture. Sucks at acting.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Philippines

 

I don't agree with individuals making the decision on what others ingest when the people have no choice or say in the matter.

In the US you either pay for bottled water or you pay water and sewer so you are wrong you do have a choice but nothing in this life is free.

If by chance someone does get their water for free then they really do not have a complaint or at least they shouldn’t. Only a moron would complain about something they get for free.

When it comes to bottled water you have a list of ingredients on the back of the water bottle so you can make an informed decision. It's been awhile since I've lived in the US, but does the public water utility company(s) provide a list of ingredients on the water bill, or some other location to be informed of what is in that water?

As for public tap water through a utility company, I don't think they give the water for free. Free water is usually from springs, wells, or collected from rain etc. imo

reply to post by Philippines


Again, I understand what you are saying, but this thread was started saying that fluoride is harmful with not enough information to back it up, it was never brought up in the OP whether or not people should have the choice (and they do if they vote).

Fluoride is added as a preventative measure for tooth decay. There are millions of poor people (especially kids) that cannot afford proper dental care. This is one very small step in trying to help them. If they can't afford dental care, then they sure as heck cannot afford healthcare, and when they get sick from lack of dental care, who do you think pays for their hospital visit?

When it comes to bottled water you have a list of ingredients on the back of the water bottle so you can make an informed decision. It's been awhile since I've lived in the US, but does the public water utility company(s) provide a list of ingredients on the water bill, or some other location to be informed of what is in that water?

Not directed at me, but, yes they do. Anyone can come to the water treatment plant that I work at and I will show them exactly what is taken out of the water, and exactly what we put into the water, down to the .01 mg/L. We have to test the water daily and record everything for it, including dosages. All people have to do is not be lazy and find out by going to either the local elected officials office, or to the water treatment plant. Unfortunately, we only ever hear about stuff like this when scared people hear the word "fluoride" and they aren't sure why it is being added.

PS- Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about the pic of the fluoride label, I just haven't been to that treatment plant yet.

Originally posted by autoprotolysis
reply to post by Phage

 

You don't know much about chemistry do you. It isn't listed much because most studies have been placed under water. Literally. It helps teeth topically. It replaces iodine in the system and causes thyroid issues until it finds calcium. Eighty percent of the population is iodine deficient because of fluoride. You remind of the actor you chose for your picture. Sucks at acting.

Unfortunately, what you failed to include in your post (besides the passive aggressive personal attack) was the fact that most people who get skeletal fluorosis, get it from a naturally occurring site with very high fluoride levels. Approx 2.7 million chinese people have it. Link

reply to post by autoprotolysis


I utilize fluoride every day in my diet. I am experimenting with organic fluoride...naturally in coffee...since I discovered that fluoride has diuretic properties. I have always had a problem with hypovolemia, hope I spelled that right, it is where a person doesn't have a lot of blood. I need a lot more salt than most people to feel right, if I don't have enough I pee it all out and get weak. I am trying to understand Automatic craving functions now. Fluoride will remove Chloride from the cells, Chloride removes Bromide from cells, Bromide replaces Iodine from cells. Since with me, bromide seems to be more of an issue along with the hyponatremia that is plaguing me more now than it used to, I eat more salt and less sodiums of other kinds. Even though I am big, I have little problem getting around. I have to drink about three to four cups of coffee a day to get rid of the chloride though. I am not sure exactly what is going on in the body, finding research on this is hard.

Organic fluoride has good properties of removing excess water, it is used extensively as a water pill. I'd rather drink coffee or eat dandelion greens than take a water pill though. Fluoride is in almost everything we eat, it is a common ion. It is not bad for a person unless it isn't bound or unless we consume too much. It is in the wrong form when added to water, it is not organic. Adding it to water is only done in my opinion to try to dope up people.

I know very much about fluoride, I have been researching it since the seventies, every article I came across. I knew an older woman back then who gave me tons of literature on the bad effects, I read it all. We do need fluoride for regulation in the body. Fluoridated water being good for you is one of the biggest misconceptions that has been spread in this country.

The devil tries to talk you into taking poison, he can't poison you himself without bringing down the wrath of god on him. The devil is a deceiver not a killer. I pretty much understand the ancient writings and what they were talking about. Deceit is legal, lies are not. I can't understand why Americans will not accept all the evidence against adding fluoride to the water. The evidence is real, yet people will take the poison just because they think it will keep their teeth looking nicer. People are so vain, they think appearance is better than health. Too much fluoride makes your teeth look worse though, then people protect their thinking by saying "just think how bad it would be if I wasn't using extra fluoride" People are so naive, they believe deception even though their body is falling apart from it.

Want fluoride in the diet? Drink coffee or tea or eat grapes which are naturally high in organic fluoride. Study what naturally has fluoride in it in a safe form, the antidepressant properties of natural organic fluorides are well known. As with anything, always use moderation.

Another thing that people don't understand. Sometimes Kelp has high amounts of Bromide in it depending on where it is from. This makes the Iodine unavailable since Bromide is taken up easier to cells. Knowing where your kelp comes from should be a must and examining research should be done on the Bromide levels of the areas kelp