Awareness. The creator of experience.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Ok then it was used to refute the op.

You weren't asking it because you were genuinly interested in the answer, it was obviously meant to prove a point, namely that there was something wrong with his op.

You can keep on deying that but it looks a bit silly.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
No words can properly identify what you are. You are the seer, not the seen. You see subjective interpretations of objects. Nothing you have ever seen is really the way it is. To try to see your self is to make yourself an object for examination, at which point the self becomes a subjective interpretation. This is the making of a false identity and the beginning of delusion.

Leaving the self, or contemplation of the self, out of the experience, out of the mind, puts the self at its proper function as the experiencer. Leaving yourself uncreated gives you the freedom to create. As the pure subject, your experience is unique. No other can have the same experience as you. You own your experience, and therefore, you are responsible for what you experience. No other is responsible for an experience that they will never have.

It is your duty as a unique experiencer to apply your will. What you desire to experience, you will. Most regard awareness as a receptive observer, but this is not entirely true. It is important to understand that you have a will for.a.reason. The will is not a.delusion, although it may be.misguided and ineffective. This is due to the delusions caused by self identity and trying to create, using the will, as the object you have erroneously defined yourself as. The will doesnt come from the object, it comes directly from the subject, but gets distorted along the way and loses its power as it is misapplied, or attributed to the false identity.

The core of the self, which is often referred to as "awareness", is the one with the will. Awareness, therefore is not.entirely receptive. The will happens after awareness. The will stands between the object and the subject. This is why you will.always see what you desire. Awareness is not just the passive receiver of experience, it also determines what is seen. It is your right to determine what you see, but you can only excercise that right once free from the delusions of the identity.

You are literally infinite without the identity. When you, the infinite being, applies your will, there is no limit to what you can create. When you are free from your identity, you are free as an infinte range of unidentified possibility. But dont ponder on what you could be, ponder on what you can see so that you leave yourself infinite and make the objects of your experience subject to your infinite creativity. Let your experience not be subject to your preconceptions and identity structures, but let your experience be subject to your infinite nature as the unidentified presence.

Why abandon or deny any facet of the self, that which makes one unique, and that which lends the self to unique experiences? Why do you not merge all that you are, make alterations and adaptations, if needed, then carry on?

reply to post by Tribunal

Ok then it was used to refute the op.

You weren't asking it because you were genuinly interested in the answer, it was obviously meant to prove a point, namely that there was something wrong with his op.

You can keep on deying that but it looks a bit silly.

If someone stands up on a crate in the middle of a street and declares that they have a billion dollars and can therefore elicit marvelous deeds as a result of such endowment - repeatedly does so, mind you - then why do they continuously deliver such speeches in such manner and not instead demonstrate such talent in a far more meaningful and noticeable way?

Everyone can talk, but not everyone walks. A man who acts will bring far more attention and appreciation to his message than a man who expresses the idea but does not demonstrate the practicality of his words. This is the point I am making, and the mechanism behind the question in my first post. You may value the gesture of talking, but I value the gesture of demonstration. One cannot argue with the man who invents a better mousetrap, but one can argue with a man who only speaks of it.

If you don't understand this, then I have nothing more to say to you. Demonstration has always made a far bigger impact than eloquence. Ask Mother Theresa, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, or Jesus. All of these people were more than just theory. They were action. And they changed the world, according to our history.

Thinkers and doers, my friend. You say I am refuting. I did not say the OP was wrong. I have never said that in this thread. I merely suggested that OP not limit himself to a conspiracy forum if he possesses such great potential. Real world applications and all that.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Tribunal

 

Ok then it was used to refute the op.

You weren't asking it because you were genuinly interested in the answer, it was obviously meant to prove a point, namely that there was something wrong with his op.

You can keep on deying that but it looks a bit silly.

If someone stands up on a crate in the middle of a street and declares that they have a billion dollars and can therefore elicit marvelous deeds as a result of such endowment - repeatedly does so, mind you - then why do they continuously deliver such speeches in such manner and not instead demonstrate such talent in a far more meaningful and noticeable way?

Everyone can talk, but not everyone walks. A man who acts will bring far more attention and appreciation to his message than a man who expresses the idea but does not demonstrate the practicality of his words. This is the point I am making, and the mechanism behind the question in my first post. You may value the gesture of talking, but I value the gesture of demonstration. One cannot argue with the man who invents a better mousetrap, but one can argue with a man who only speaks of it.

If you don't understand this, then I have nothing more to say to you. Demonstration has always made a far bigger impact than eloquence. Ask Mother Theresa, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, or Jesus. All of these people were more than just theory. They were action. And they changed the world, according to our history.

Thinkers and doers, my friend.

You must not like poets and their special brand of expression.

reply to post by InTheLight

You must not like poets and their special brand of expression.

This is not the poetry forum. As such, I would assume this is not merely poetry. As a writer, I do possess appreciation for artistic expression. As a practical thinker, I also possess appreciation for practical means of conveying messages. No one listens to a talker. Everyone listens to doer.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by InTheLight

 

You must not like poets and their special brand of expression.

This is not the poetry forum. As such, I would assume this is not merely poetry. As a writer, I do possess appreciation for artistic expression. As a practical thinker, I also possess appreciation for practical means of conveying messages. No one listens to a talker. Everyone listens to doer.

edit on 6-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

But the OP is a doer by creating a thread as a vehicle to share with us his/her understanding of her/his unique experience and/or take on what he/she thinks of as awareness. The delivery could also be made poetically, which I would appreciate.

reply to post by InTheLight

But the OP is a doer by creating a thread as a vehicle to share with us his/her understanding of her/his unique experience and/or take on what he/she thinks of as awareness. The delivery could also be made poetically, which I would appreciate.

I'm a doer by going on Facebook every day and liking as many statuses and pictures as I can manage. I then take a lunch break before ranting on conspiracy forums about how the government treats its citizens unfairly before taking a coffee break and wrapping up with a few blog posts regarding the oncoming alien invasion that is supported by a few scraps of barely relevant data pulled off of backwoods hype sites that spend more time extrapolating than actually doing research.

The above is highly dramatized and largely fabricated - point being, there is doing and there is doing. You are apparently satisfied with a gesture that will be noticed by maybe 500 people. I'm talking about movements that catch the attention of millions of people. Unless, of course, the message is only meant for a select few? Either way, apparently the OP doesn't think this is too important or s/he would have written a book, done a few interviews, given a lecture, and eventually establish his or herself as a reputable authority on awareness and how we all have the power to...whatever.

But maybe my opinion isn't as important as the OP's. Clearly, my views aren't welcome. Now that I've stated my piece, I'll let the guy just blather on without a single shred of rational input to hinder his course. Thank you for reading.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by InTheLight

 

But the OP is a doer by creating a thread as a vehicle to share with us his/her understanding of her/his unique experience and/or take on what he/she thinks of as awareness. The delivery could also be made poetically, which I would appreciate.

I'm a doer by going on Facebook every day and liking as many statuses and pictures as I can manage. I then take a lunch break before ranting on conspiracy forums about how the government treats its citizens unfairly before taking a coffee break and wrapping up with a few blog posts regarding the oncoming alien invasion that is supported by a few scraps of barely relevant data pulled off of backwoods hype sites that spend more time extrapolating than actually doing research.

The above is highly dramatized and largely fabricated - point being, there is doing and there is doing. You are apparently satisfied with a gesture that will be noticed by maybe 500 people. I'm talking about movements that catch the attention of millions of people. Unless, of course, the message is only meant for a select few? Either way, apparently the OP doesn't think this is too important or s/he would have written a book, done a few interviews, given a lecture, and eventually establish his or herself as a reputable authority on awareness and how we all have the power to...whatever.

But maybe my opinion isn't as important as the OP's. Clearly, my views aren't welcome. Now that I've stated my piece, I'll let the guy just blather on without a single shred of rational input to hinder his course. Thank you for reading.

The point being the OP is a doer in our little ATS world here and everyone's opinion should be respected and not rated. My satisfaction point is not easily met.

reply to post by InTheLight


It's a theory and an impractical theory at that. Links? Sources? Articles? Peer reviews? Evidence? Nope. Just a personal insight that apparently applies to all of us for no reason other than s/he says so. And not even in any way that makes sense.

"Go out and do good for others, that they may see your good works and seek to emulate what you have done."

There's a good theory. Sensible, practical, easy to work with. Doesn't always bring the expected results, but it's a decent starting point. You know where you are and where you want to go.

"Lose your identity, become infinite, and apply your will as a nonentity because that is your duty."

...Er, what? In order to apply my will, I must exist as something separate from both my will and that which my will is affecting. This requires identity. In order to become infinite, I have to stop being human. How do I do this? And who are you to tell me what my duty is? Say whaaaa - ? I mean, good intentions and all, but what a way to try and explain it! Maybe if he stopped trying to sound so impressive and educated and just came right out with it... o_O

Thanks for reading.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Did you watch the video I posted?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Thinkers and doers, my friend. You say I am refuting. I did not say the OP was wrong. I have never said that in this thread. I merely suggested that OP not limit himself to a conspiracy forum if he possesses such great potential. Real world applications and all that.

This is another invalid argument, because you have no way of knowing that he is in fact limiting himself to a conspiracy forum only, and again, if he was, it would still have no relation to the merit of his philosophy.

And again, he was talking about creating your own experience, subjectively. There is no way to prove a notion like that.

It is just a philosophy.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Yes, I did. Interesting stuff, although really, I would be ashamed if I stopped there. That video and the ideas it explained are only one facet of what the world is capable of meaning to any one person. I choose not to let this reality be defined by who I am, as I am not the only person defining or interpreting this reality. Conceivably, just as my understanding of this world is one facet of who I am, I am one tiny facet of what this reality is. Just one. Like a little speck. Almost infinitesimally small. I am unique, but not significant. And I should never, ever forget that.

Even so, similar to what Smithjustin was saying, I should not let that drag me down, but let that encourage me to make this tiny sliver of existence that I call my own...well, the best it can be. Make it a ride worth remembering, even if I don't end up remembering it. Give myself a plethora of reasons to be satisfied with claiming a particle of space for a nanosecond of time.

And part of that is being aware of not just myself. I must not limit my awareness, my observation, to that which is concerned solely with myself. I am not the greatest wonder of existence, so I shouldn't act or think like it.

reply to post by Tribunal


Another invalid opinion. Why? Because I say so. This is a philosophy forum. Everything is valid because technically, nothing is valid. I am allowed my suggestions and you are allowed your varying disgruntled rejoinders which amuse me so greatly.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

This is a philosophy forum. Everything is valid because technically, nothing is valid.

Exactly, so why are you asking for him to do more important stuff then share his philosophy here?

And you didn't even understand what he was actually saying.

Another invalid opinion. Why? Because I say so

See the difference. I use arguments to explain why they are invalid.

reply to post by Tribunal


That's because he wasn't really saying much of anything. I'm familiar with his stuff. Like a kid who picks up a dictionary and throws a bunch of really loosely defined words together to make a lot of indefinite nonsense that sounds like it means something as long as you don't think too hard about it. Throw a couple of reworked pearls in there and you got a decent piece of mysticism going. Just make sure you keep people thinking and rethinking or they'll figure out that you don't make any sense. Humans can't be infinite. Abandoning identity to unleash potential is a contradiction of terms. Applying will because that's our duty...pure opinion.

Then again, some people just like the overall picture and don't care that the elements composing it clash in a lot of places. They swallow it without even a little salt. I guess you're one of them.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Tribunal

 

That's because he wasn't really saying much of anything. I'm familiar with his stuff. Like a kid who picks up a dictionary and throws a bunch of really loosely defined words together to make a lot of indefinite nonsense that sounds like it means something as long as you don't think too hard about it. Throw a couple of reworked pearls in there and you got a decent piece of mysticism going. Just make sure you keep people thinking and rethinking or they'll figure out that you don't make any sense. Humans can't be infinite. Abandoning identity to unleash potential is a contradiction of terms. Applying will because that's our duty...pure opinion.

Then again, some people just like the overall picture and don't care that the elements composing it clash in a lot of places. They swallow it without even a little salt. I guess you're one of them.

edit on 6-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

If you are so familiar with his insights on awareness and consider his words nonsense, why then reply at all to his posts? The OP really hasn't been given a chance to explain his experience further due to your intervention.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Yes, I did. Interesting stuff, although really, I would be ashamed if I stopped there. That video and the ideas it explained are only one facet of what the world is capable of meaning to any one person.

I am glad you liked it.
It is a shame though that you viewed it with the intellect - you claim that Douglas Harding was presenting ideas - I didn't hear any ideas explained. To me, it is an investigation - a scientific method of looking to see what you really are. It is best if you participate and follow his direction.

Here is another investigation into what is going on where you are.

This is another experiment to find out what you are which will help to stop stress. It is assuming that you know what you are that causes suffering

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by InTheLight

 

You must not like poets and their special brand of expression.

This is not the poetry forum. As such, I would assume this is not merely poetry. As a writer, I do possess appreciation for artistic expression. As a practical thinker, I also possess appreciation for practical means of conveying messages. No one listens to a talker. Everyone listens to doer.

edit on 6-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

A few writings from poet/philosophers, taking on the paradox.

"Philosophy is something reasoned and heavy; poetry something winged, flashing, inspired...It is the acme of life to understand life. The height of poetry is to speak the language of the gods."

-- George Santayana, Three Philosophical Poets


A man is supple and weak when living, but hard
and stiff when dead. Grass and trees are pliant and fragile
when living, but dried and shrivelled when dead.
Thus the hard and the strong are the comrades of
death; the supple and the weak are the comrades of life.
Therefore a weapon that is strong will not vanquish;
A tree that is strong will suffer the axe.
The strong and big takes the lower position,
The supple and weak takes the higher position.

Tao Te Ching
----------------------------

John Ciardi:
"Philosophical Poem"

The disease of civilization is not tools, citizen.
Ignorance might be closer to it.
Politics closer. But only Money
Will hit the brass tacks everyone wants to get down to
Squarely on the head.

Above all, I have no case against human nature.
Whatever that is, I like it.
I like mechanics with wrenches,
Taxi drivers' photos on licenses,
Drunks lighting cigarettes.
What the hell else is there to like
After you've kissed your wife and gone to sleep?

I like everything but important people being important.
And academic people being academic.
What I like least is bookkeepers
Spending their human eyes on accounts receivable,
Interest receivable, payment due, balance on hand.
And columns of soldiers marching.

How many an ephiphany was realized through the poet/philosopher's musings, I wonder.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Originally posted by smithjustinb
You are literally infinite without the identity. When you, the infinite being, applies your will, there is no limit to what you can create. When you are free from your identity, you are free as an infinte range of unidentified possibility. But dont ponder on what you could be, ponder on what you can see so that you leave yourself infinite and make the objects of your experience subject to your infinite creativity. Let your experience not be subject to your preconceptions and identity structures, but let your experience be subject to your infinite nature as the unidentified presence.

Hello, smithjustinb. I appreciate what you are trying to communicate here. However, as I think we have also spoken about on another thread of yours, the following bears repeating (at least in my opinion).

Statements such as those quoted can be very misleading. One can say that Reality is infinite, but no "you" or "I' is infinite. That is more an idea of the ego with its endless potential for delusions of grandeur - that somehow, the "I" becomes or is infinitely expanded, the "I" has infinite potential, etc.

In Reality any "you" or "I" is absolutely vanished. This is the very reason that such realization is extremely rare - as no one wants to let any and ALL sense of identity, in every aspect of life high and low, to be utterly undone by Reality Itself. This requires profound practice and transformation.

All kinds of so-called non-dualists these days are making such claims of profound realization based on the truth that there is only Reality, no ego-self - but it is mostly just intellectual talk, at least from what I have observed.