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Why Denying Ignorance is Important

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posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 03:49 PM
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In this life, we are often faced with situations where we are tempted to believe lies instead of facts. So, why does it benefit you try and find what is real? Why does it benefit a ruler or corporate CEO to gain the legitimate data on the situation at hand?

What good is a ruler who is an idiot?

What good is a blacksmith who smiths with feathers?

What good is a fisherman who fishes in lava lakes?

What good is a cook who bakes with granite?

I mean they can do what they want, fishing in a lava lake sounds exciting, just don't have any delusions about catching something.

edit on 5-6-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by darkbake
 


what good is ats, without darkbake?




posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by darkbake

......So, why does it benefit you try and find what is real?

The problem lies within ones' perception of their own knowledge, and the extent at which they trust the legitimacy of said knowledge.

It isn't so much about searching to find the 'real' truth, but rather that more people need to understand and accept that the version which they wholeheartedly believe to be the irrefutable accurate truth, may in fact be entirely incorrect.




edit on 6/5/13 by BrokenCircles because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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True ignorance will be very hard to totally deny.
I have noticed how we are all ignorant about something.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by darkbake
 


It's a "fruit on the tree" thing for me. In my "job" I am tasked to research and write on a variety of subjects. In the course of this research, it is not uncommon to see very different opinions or "beliefs" based on or around the same fundamental source material. This often speaks to the bias of the author, but can also speak to their discernment. Which "facts" are they willing to ignore or minimize to make one particular claim over another?

That is why I ask questions here on ATS. I want to understand where a particular point of view is coming from. My bias -- and it is a bias BTW -- is for fairly solid verifiable sources and "facts." This aligns me as a skeptic concerning much of what is discussed here on a regular basis. I'm ok with that label, because it rings true. I am skeptical of lots of things, because I don't find arguments based on emotion persuasive.

Does that make me 100% right? I doubt it, but it is "who I am." Denying ignorance to be contrary is not useful, but simply believing for the sake of belonging is even less useful, IMO. I tend to be more critical outside the gray area, where anything goes and proof is not required. If some of my worthy foes stuck up a conversation re: their favorite ghost stories in the gray area, I'd probably join them in a game of what if. If they post a "ghost hunts white house press corps" story in BAN, I'm going to need to see some evidence before suspending my credulity.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by darkbake
In this life, we are often faced with situations where we are tempted to believe lies instead of facts.


I don't believe that is completely true. I would say we are tempted to believe the most suitable information for our needs. We have to believe something, so we make the choice of believing what we are told face value or we chose to consider the options and make our own minds up after thinking for ourselves.

Believing a lie is just lazy thinking because we don't actually know if something is a lie or not. That view can only be from a third party perspective.

Some find it hard to go through the motions of "consideration" which involves thought processes that are either alien to us or too much hard work and or responsibility.

Denying Ignorance IS important, but accepting that not everyone has the skills to do so is also ignorant.

The second part of your post lacks anything sensible, sorry.
edit on 5/6/2013 by nerbot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by darkbake


What good is a ruler who is an idiot?
Depends on the people he rules. How many people thought Bush JR was an idiot in his reign /


What good is a blacksmith who smiths with feathers?

A slow student ?


What good is a fisherman who fishes in lava lakes?

Depends on what he wants to catch ? There are really people that do fish in lave lakes you know...


What good is a cook who bakes with granite?

An excellent scientist, but I would decline a cookie though.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by teamcommander
 


Deny ignorance can be read many ways. The guilty often deny guilt. The ignorant can surely deny their own ignorance.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 06:19 PM
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To deny ignorance is ignorance. Ignorance should be acknowledged, and worked with.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by darkbake
 


maybe denying- actually is ignorance?



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 06:46 PM
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I've been doing tons of research concerning "vector fields of force" and energy potential versus energy transfer/expenditure and how it all relates to the formation of matter - verifying some specifics - and along with that, the established knowledge concerning the nature of space, proximity, and the first 3 dimensions, and it's really shocking to discover that most of science - especially physics - is so rooted on faith-based inductive reasoning. There's literally nothing that - when reduced or advanced to a specific level - can be said to be proven true about Super Symmetry, particle physics, the Big Bang or anything that's been the basis of reality science, other than the fact that at specific levels of existence, some predictions can be made concerning how one thing is going to react to the impact or interaction between itself and some other thing.

It's gotten really bad lately, with some leading physicists getting ready to bail on particle physics altogether.

One leader is actually advising young physicists to refrain from trying to save his own groundbreaking theories from dying an ignominious death as a failure.

It's either scary or exciting times to be working on the leading edge of the effort to determine what's true about what's real. What is true, however, is that it's been decades since such an opening has been present and available.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by darkbake
 


One of the big problems I've noticed is that people treat Truth, knowledge, and facts as a feeling; divining their way to their answers, instead of researching them. As long as people see "feeling good" as the best route to "Truth" then ignorance will always run rampant.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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I have a Big Problem with Denying Ignorance.

Ignorance is the lack of Knowledge. People on ATS throw Deny Ignorance around like some silly mantra but they don't realize it's SUBJECTIVE. I laugh at them.

Knowledge, Truth, Facts are all subjective. Very little in this world can be really considered true or factual. What might be true for one, may not be true for another.. no matter how many "facts" you have on your side.. those facts can break down under a microscope.

So what Deny Ignorance really means is Embrace Knowledge - Just don't trust it because you cant. Silliest thing to tell anyone is Deny Ignorance. What we should say instead is Knowledge plus Wisdom is Power. Information plus understanding from study and investigation " can lead to " the ability to preform the work of correct reasoning - but you can't always count on this to remain true - some people just won't " get it" no matter how much they study. It's a dog chasing it's tail.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by symptomoftheuniverse
To deny ignorance is ignorance. Ignorance should be acknowledged, and worked with.


Wow, now that is a good point.
edit on 6-6-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 



Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
What we should say instead is Knowledge plus Wisdom is Power. Information plus understanding from study and investigation " can lead to " the ability to preform the work of correct reasoning - but you can't always count on this to remain true - some people just won't " get it" no matter how much they study. It's a dog chasing it's tail.


This is exactly what I needed to hear.

"Knowledge + Wisdom = Power" , a very true statement.

The triforce (The 3 Great Powers) are "Power, Wisdom, Courage".

Power = The Ability To Do.
Wisdom = Knowledge and Understanding which helps a person to find The Ability To Do.
Courage = The Strength to Act Upon The Ability (instead of being scared)

If one of these three are gone, then the whole thing messes up.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by darkbake
 


One of the big problems I've noticed is that people treat Truth, knowledge, and facts as a feeling; divining their way to their answers, instead of researching them. As long as people see "feeling good" as the best route to "Truth" then ignorance will always run rampant.

~ Wandering Scribe


I think it depends upon the person and their roles and positions in life.
The more responsibility one has, the more essential it becomes that they be educated.

I sometimes wonder at the idea that all people should (ideally) strive to be as highly educated as possible, and become as objective as possible..... there are coping mechanisms in things like belief and faith that can be useful tools depending upon context.
-And perhaps some minds just aren't made to be in positions of responsibility ....?

I just don't know.



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 03:03 AM
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Ignorance stems from not knowing your true nature. If you do not know what you are how can you know what anything else is?

I just found this (quite interesting) on wiki:

From the Buddhist point of view, the unwillingness or failure to see the facts of life as they are, to see ourselves as we are, and to conduct ourselves in harmony with these realities, is the chief cause of our self-inflicted suffering and, therefore the chief obstacle to our happiness. This state of denial, or lack of realization of the facts of existence, is called avidya in Sanskrit--literally, "the failure to see or know"--translated as "ignorance". One of the great contributions of Gautama Buddha was the realization that ignorance is the primary cause of the sufferings we impose on ourselves and others.
Ringu Tulku explains the nature of avidya (ignorance) as follows:
In the Buddhist sense, ignorance is equivalent to the identification of a self as being separate from everything else. It consists of the belief that there is an "I" that is not part of anything else. On this basis we think, "I am one and unique. Everything else is not me. It is something different."... From this identification stems the dualistic view, since once there is an "I," there are also "others." Up to here is "me." The rest is "they." As soon as this split is made, it creates two opposite ways of reaction: "This is nice, I want it!" and "This is not nice, I do not want it!" ...
en.wikipedia.org... - this link will take you to a link which links Buddhist and Hinduism concept of Avidya (ignorance).
edit on 7-6-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 7 2013 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by darkbake
In this life, we are often faced with situations where we are tempted to believe lies instead of facts.


The second part of your post lacks anything sensible, sorry.



The second part of the post is an Eastern take on Western religion. Westerners have an odd habit of not using the right tools for their goals.

For example, if a Westerner wants to be happy, he will spend all of his time working. If a Westerner wants to be a good person, he will become very rich and a Christian and not want to pay taxes to help the poor.

It is probably a temporal thing in part. But taking the advice I mentioned allows for instant access to desired goal, instead of decades of waiting, and sometimes miscalculations.
edit on 7-6-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-6-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by darkbake
In this life, we are often faced with situations where we are tempted to believe lies instead of facts. So, why does it benefit you try and find what is real? Why does it benefit a ruler or corporate CEO to gain the legitimate data on the situation at hand?

What good is a ruler who is an idiot?

What good is a blacksmith who smiths with feathers?

What good is a fisherman who fishes in lava lakes?

What good is a cook who bakes with granite?

I mean they can do what they want, fishing in a lava lake sounds exciting, just don't have any delusions about catching something.

edit on 5-6-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)


An idiot is incapable to rule, thus can never be a ruler.

one who smiths with feathers will never be a blacksmith.

one who fishes in lavalakes is not to be called a fisherman.

someone who bakes with granite is not to be called a cook.

Denying ignorcance needs to be done in the mind.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by Angle
 


It does.

Some people can think they are a fisherman but wonder when they catch no fish.
Some people can think they are a cook and wonder why they can't eat their bread.
Some people can think they are a blacksmith, but wonder why they get no results.

And most importantly...

Some people can think they are a leader, but wonder why their subjects revolt.



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