London Mosque Fire: Police Investigate Cause

reply to post by Gazmeister


We do allow many aspects of it in this country

Sharia law covers a huge amount of things, it's not just about criminality.

No one is claiming people can make up their own criminal laws and punishments.

Too many people are confused on this matter and need educating.

Sharia law covers how people wash and what they eat, would you ban that?

"you can't not eat that meat because sharia law says you can't and we don't recognise sharia laws in this country"

Beyond mental.

Originally posted by bates
I still don't get what the problem is; if everyone who is involved is happy to live by the laws laid down, to have the sharia councils judge their disputes, what is your problem with it?

If people are happily living by a set of rules that harm no one, why do you care?

I once witnessed a young muslim female being held down and her genitals
being mutilated as is required by sharia law,
This happened outside in the middle of the day,.I was simply relaxing in my garden.

Harm no one ?
Why do I care ?

I am british and this backwards barbarism has no place in civilized society.


On topic:
The thread title is misleading.
it should read London Community Center Fire.
It was not a mosque.

Originally posted by bates

I still don't get what the problem is; if everyone who is involved is happy to live by the laws laid down, to have the sharia councils judge their disputes, what is your problem with it?

Because not all sides are happy. Women are constantly oppressed and beaten down due to a misogynistic, archaic, primitive, belief system. Who speaks for them? No one.

Here's an example of one of countless cases.

www.express.co.uk...

That's my problem with it.

Originally posted by bates

If people are happily living by a set of rules that harm no one, why do you care?

Nice weasel word evasion, but people are harmed.

The legitimacy or indeed desirability of Sharia law has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it is acceptable to burn buildings down. My neighbour has a dog which barks loudly occasionally at 5am and disturbs me. I do not set his car on fire because of this.

For the record I am vehemently opposed to sections of Sharia law, particularly where the rights and wellbeing of women are concerned. Most right thinking people should and do share these views.

surely no arsonist is dumb enough to sign their work like this. seems more likely to be a set-up.

reply to post by bates


"I still don't get what the problem is; if everyone who is involved is happy to live by the laws laid down, to have the sharia councils judge their disputes, what is your problem with it? If people are happily living by a set of rules that harm no one, why do you care?"

U.K laws are able accommodate both male and female perspective. Sharia law does not!

U.K laws do not allow for cruel and unusual punishment. Sharia law most certainly does!

U.K laws promotes free speech(Most of the time). Again Sharia law does not!

What about all the poor Muslim women and children that don't have a choice or say in the matter and are made to follow Sharia law simply due to tradition or the fact that they don't know any better.

That's why I care essentially because Sharia law is abuse of the individuals human rights! Most especially Women and children's human rights.

This is Britain not a Muslim nation by design.

Muslim people coming to the U.K should follow the rules or go back home, not try and make up there own.

What do you think would happen to me if I moved to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria or any other Muslim nation and started screaming and shouting that their laws were not relevant to me and that I want my own set of laws just for me and mine??? I dont see me walking away from that with my testicals intact!

Ugh, why is it in these neverending threads where the islamophobes come out in droves do we have to repeatedly listen to non-muslims telling us what "the majority of muslims" want? You don't know anything about what the majority of muslims want.

reply to post by andy06shake


Go and have a read what Sharia Law actually is, you seem to have read the EDL version and that's it.

reply to post by bates


You are muslim ha ?

reply to post by roguedesigner

Originally posted by roguedesigner
The legitimacy or indeed desirability of Sharia law has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it is acceptable to burn buildings down. My neighbour has a dog which barks loudly occasionally at 5am and disturbs me. I do not set his car on fire because of this.

For the record I am vehemently opposed to sections of Sharia law, particularly where the rights and wellbeing of women are concerned. Most right thinking people should and do share these views.

Totes, I agree completely.


Is it bad that, upon viewing the title of the thread, I knew that it would be derailed within the first two pages? I don't know whether the extremely vocal minority of us that spout this "Islamification" spiel are bigoted, spiteful, downright obtuse or all three!


For those who emphatically believe that most (or even, dare I say it, all) Muslims want Sharia law, I have two questions for you:


1. How connected are you with your Muslim neighbours? Do you have close Muslim friends? Are you related to any Muslims? Do you live with any Muslims? Do you have deep political conversations with several isolated Islamists on a day-to-day basis? (Okay, so that's a few questions, but you get it )


2. In the name of the Oracle who sits atop the Watchtower of the Lead Coin, in all Her dread Stygian glory, what does any of this have to do with the thread title?


You could just leave it at "Such a despicable thing to do... I do not condone this act." You could even say, "Man, I hate Islam and all it stands for. But this is not right!" Instead, it's a load of, "I don't condone it, but have you seen what they're doing to our country?"

If I may say so myself, and I can, freedom 'o' speech and whatnot, the boisterous, unrefined and irrational anti-Muslim sentiment in this country is in fact very un-British.

I'm not saying one needs to accept Islam, but why the need to exaggerate statistics and spout the same old bigoted rhetoric while frothing at the mouth like a rabid bulldog? (That's how I'm imagining some of the keyboard warriors anyway...)

It's not polite, it's rarely ever composed and it's certainly not British.

Now with all that being said, I'm not happy about this incident at all. This vicious cycle might drag along through the summer, I dread...

Just curious but if you were going to commit a crime, would you sign your name at the scene of the crime?

Is it possible that someone wants to shift the blame to an obvious target?

Originally posted by bates
reply to post by andy06shake

 

Go and have a read what Sharia Law actually is, you seem to have read the EDL version and that's it.

Do you mean the same Sharia Law that condones and even encourages things like flogging, slavery, rape, wife beating, mercy killings, honour killings, blinding, hand and foot amputation for the crime of theft, and last but not least crucifixion?

The same system of law that promotes punishing homosexuality by burning them alive?

liberapedia.wikia.com...

www.answering-islam.org...

www.nowtheendbegins.com...

Sorry mate no sale! LoL

I should also add, I do not support the English Defence League im..........Scottish!

I hate to add to the derailment here but I can't believe some of the ideas coming out here. If you seriously think that Shariah Councils have the legal power to burn homosexuals alive, or transgress other laws of the land, you must live under a rock. If it weren't so downright ignorant it would be hilarious.

Shariah Councils exist to mediate on civil matters. They do not have the power to circumvent British law. Nobody with an ounce of sense (or real influence) is talking about having any greater power than that. Whilst I disagree very strongly with the way in which women's affairs are often reportedly dealt with I can (very reluctantly in those instances) respect that there are cultural differences going on here. It can actually be a good thing to let people mediate on some matters within the framework of their own culture and belief system. Here's a good link from The Guardian newspaper...
Panorama's exposé of Shariah Councils didn't tell the full story

Anybody who seriously believes that TPTB are going to turn around and create a whole new Shariah legal system in this country has to be insane. These are not parallel legal systems and their decisions have no effect in British civil or criminal law. Its incredible that I read so much on ATS about how our various governments want to hold grimly onto every last scrap of power they have, and yet here we are openly discussing what amounts to a massive acquiescence of power by those very governments for absolutely no gain whatsoever. That's not going to happen. Get real.

Originally posted by roguedesigner
I hate to add to the derailment here but I can't believe some of the ideas coming out here. If you
seriously think that Shariah Councils have the legal power to burn homosexuals alive, or transgress
other laws of the land, you must live under a rock. If it weren't so downright ignorant it would be hilarious.

Shariah Councils exist to mediate on civil matters. They do not have the power to circumvent British law.
Nobody with an ounce of sense (or real influence) is talking about having any greater power than that.
Whilst I disagree very strongly with the way in which women's affairs are often reportedly dealt with
I can (very reluctantly in those instances) respect that there are cultural differences going on here.
It can actually be a good thing to let people mediate on some matters within the framework of
their own culture and belief system. Here's a good link from The Guardian newspaper...
Panorama's exposé of Shariah Councils didn't tell the full story

Anybody who seriously believes that TPTB are going to turn around and create a whole new
Shariah legal system in this country has to be insane. These are not parallel legal systems and
their decisions have no effect in British civil or criminal law. Its incredible that I read so much
on ATS about how our various governments want to hold grimly onto every last scrap of power
they have, and yet here we are openly discussing what amounts to a massive acquiescence
of power by those very governments for absolutely no gain whatsoever. That's not going to
happen. Get real.

edit on 6-6-2013 by roguedesigner because: (no reason given)

It all stems from a fear that one day with higher breeding rates the muslim population will grow to a
percentage that simply has the numbers to elect a government that will implement sharia law.
"TPTB" would simple have no choice in such a situtaion.

Why this fear exists.
I do not see this happening in my lifetime and can only go on my own experience in my own area.
But In just under 10 years my street that was once inhabited by jews,afro caribbeans and white
europeons has now only 4 homes occupied by white europeons. The jewish and afro caribbean
community have completely gone and have been replaced with muslim homes. The muslim
women of these families all wear burkas which indicates they are incredibly conservative and
therefore take sharia law very seriously.
Local buisnesses (shops/stores) are now owned by these people and no longer serve alcohol
or pork products.Local schools have become 90% muslim pupils and only islam is taught in
religious education, sharia is a huge part of what is taught.

If what is happening here, is happening across the country then the fear that sharia law will
become actual law is a reasonable one.

reply to post by roguedesigner


Taliban Sharia Law followers cut off the ears and nose of this little girl simply for running away! Click the link please if you have the stomach for it.

www.nydailynews.com...

Do you really think we wish to allow Sharia law here in great Britain when its responsible for the above? Im not claiming that these so called Sharia law councils set up here in the UK have any real legal powers. I do however imagine the people that attend these proceedings abide by their judgement. And therein lies the problem im afraid. There system of laws are not recognized in this country and hence illegal.

Or do you claim this is just TPTB at work, It this just made up also?

Originally posted by bates
reply to post by Gazmeister

 

We do allow many aspects of it in this country

Sharia law covers a huge amount of things, it's not just about criminality.

No one is claiming people can make up their own criminal laws and punishments.

Too many people are confused on this matter and need educating.

Sharia law covers how people wash and what they eat, would you ban that?

"you can't not eat that meat because sharia law says you can't and we don't recognise sharia laws in this country"

Beyond mental.

Again, it's completely irrelevant whether it deals with things besides criminality. If you wish to live in Britain then you abide by BRITISH LAW. Nothing else, it's that damn simple. You want sharia law? Then by all means feel free to move to Saudi Arabia.

www.youtube.com...

You really think this sort of thing should be allowed?

Actually people do know what majority of muslims think because they have spokes persons.Just as the British have spokes people on behalf of them . Just as Christians do.

So dont try and pull that one.
The Imams are their religious leaders and representatives.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Actually people do know what majority of muslims think because they have spokes persons.Just as the British have spokes people on behalf of them . Just as Christians do.

So dont try and pull that one.
The Imams are their religious leaders and representatives.

edit on 7-6-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)

And, what have "spokespersons" got to do with anything anyone has mentioned on this thread?

Originally posted by Malynn
Ugh, why is it in these neverending threads where the islamophobes come out in droves do we have to repeatedly listen to non-muslims telling us what "the majority of muslims" want? You don't know anything about what the majority of muslims want.

You've nailed it, neither side is going to convince the other of anything, and neither one knows anything for sure, it's just an exchange of sweeping generalities...

I find it especially worrying that every time this comes up the same people make the EXACT same points to the EXACT same people - why bother?

Originally posted by Gazmeister

Originally posted by bates
reply to post by Gazmeister

 

We do allow many aspects of it in this country

Sharia law covers a huge amount of things, it's not just about criminality.

No one is claiming people can make up their own criminal laws and punishments.

Too many people are confused on this matter and need educating.

Sharia law covers how people wash and what they eat, would you ban that?

"you can't not eat that meat because sharia law says you can't and we don't recognise sharia laws in this country"

Beyond mental.

Again, it's completely irrelevant whether it deals with things besides criminality. If you wish to live in Britain then you abide by BRITISH LAW. Nothing else, it's that damn simple. You want sharia law? Then by all means feel free to move to Saudi Arabia.

www.youtube.com...

You really think this sort of thing should be allowed?

edit on 7/6/13 by Gazmeister because: (no reason given)

You wanna tell that to the Jews and Sikhs?
Both of those groups have integrated within our country but have the right to use their own laws and settle their disputes in their own courts, as do Muslims. If you're trying to claim that having your own laws of governance prevents you from being British you might want to read a book or something on how the UK works!

These courts already exist and they cause no problems - NOONE except the extremist loonys on both sides are suggesting anyone wants to replace British law with a secular one.