How to Stop a Tornado

reply to post by JayinAR

Tornadoes are the most violent force on this planet.

I think there are a few contenders for that honor. I guess it depends on your ranking method.

Even if using directed energy to stall tornadoes turned out to be somehow technically feasible, it would be a legal and logistical nightmare. Just like previous ideas like using nuclear weapons, the question of collateral damage comes into play. Who pays for potential property damage from electromagnetic interference, or possibly even thermal effects? That doesn't even take into consideration the possibility for injury to people or livestock in the affected areas, as others in this thread have noted.

I think the real problem boils down to logistics. Right now, forecasters are still unable to determine exactly which mesocyclonic supercells will eventually become tornadic, so determining which cells to target with sufficient time to actually affect some kind of real change could become problematic. Considering the speed with which these types of storms evolve, it seems to me that any measure designed to target them after formation is doomed to fail, or at the very least experience a woefully limited success rate.

What would be interesting is if more research into things like cloud seeding could be done, in order to determine conclusively whether or not currently understood forms of weather modification are feasible. A cursory glance at Wikipedia revealed that from 1962-1983 the NOAA's Project Stormfury attempted to research seeding as a potential countermeasure for strong hurricanes, though no conclusive effect was statistically observed.

It seems at least superficially conceivable to me that affecting change on the smaller storm systems that often produce the deadliest tornadoes would be easier than trying to alter something as large as a hurricane, despite the greater lifespan and stability of hurricanes. Maybe seeding areas with the highest forecast CAPE (convective available potential energy) values when significant wind shear is present, in an attempt to encourage the development of bowing segments over supercells, essentially creating a more homogeneous dispersion of storm energy, could produce demonstrable results. It might make for an interesting study at least.

Honestly, given our current understanding of tornadogenesis, I think the best thing we can do is continue to analyze the most promising storms with mobile mesonets, and attempt to deploy instrumentation into the path of oncoming tornadoes. After we build a truly robust and statistically relevant set of data, we'll be a little bit better equipped to consider any potential storm countermeasures.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by AlienView

 

The satellites would collect solar energy, transform it into microwaves, and send a beam down to Earth. The beams would be focused on cold downdrafts, heating them like last night's leftovers.

The only problem is, microwaves don't heat air. Go turn on your microwave oven with nothing in it for a while. Does the air in it get hot? Warm even?

Other ideas that might be considered might include solar mirrors reflecting and concentrating the suns energy to disrupt the tornado formation and to stop it if it has already formed.

Aren't tornadoes associated with thunderstorms. Aren't thunderstorms associated with heavy cloud cover?

edit on 6/5/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

The moisture in the storm cell would be targeted, thus transferring that radiated heat into the surrounding air resulting in a reduced differential of hot versus cold air.

I have a few problems with this:

1) A tremendous amount of energy would be required to affect this.

2) Beaming powerful microwaves down toward us on the ground seems like a bad idea..

3) Changing a variable in a complex weather system could have unintended consequences elsewhere; a Butterfly Effect.

Apparently there are those who will not let the impossible stand in the way.

Here is a quote from 'Physics Forums':

But the principles of thermodynamics don't even begin to adequately describe tornadoes. The air flowing into a tornado follows the path of greatest resistance, and that ain't exactly one of the standard principles of thermodynamics. So dismissing tornado prevention because the thermodynamic forces are too large, and on too large of a scale, is based on a false assumption. I've been working on a broad-stroke theory that suggests that tornadoes are produced by a combination of thermodynamic and electromagnetic forces. If this is correct, then it opens up new possibilities. The thermodynamic piece is, and always will be, out-of-reach. But the electromagnetic component is accessible. We can induce lightning strikes to neutralize the electric charges within the storm. If the theory in question is correct, this would reduce the strength of the tornado, perhaps below the threshold necessary for its sustenance. If you want more detail, there is an online book that I am still (and perhaps forever) working on, to be found here:

charles-chandler.org...

reply to post by AlienView

Apparently there are those who will not let the impossible stand in the way.

True. More from Chandler:

For example, we are told that in a black hole, the force of gravity becomes so great that it overpowers all other forces, and the laws of physics just break down. Matter and energy are crushed into a singularity. This, of course, begs the question of why there would be anything at all left in the Universe, after billions of years of these things gobbling up everything in sight. So we are told that matter falling into a black hole probably shoots through a wormhole, reappearing somewhere else, like in a supernova or something.

qdl.scs-inc.us...

Scoffs at accepted science then demonstrates that he doesn't understand it. Science does not say matter in a black hole goes anywhere. His stuff is entertaining...to a point.

Uggghhhh.....

These "scientists" need to get outside the lab more. I would bet good money they have never seen a tornado, much less an EF-5 monster. Farmer Jones standing in his field with his 30-06 yelling for the twister to "get away or I'll shoot" would have as much a chance of stopping a tornado as these "scientists."

Tornadoes destroy everything they touch, with a penchant for trailer courts and things they supposedly can't destroy. If you have never been around one, you cannot understand the raw power they have.

Folks like this give science a bad name.

TheRedneck

Again for those who understand 'impossible' is not a scientific concept!

New Weather Modification
Research Papers By
Dr. Bernard J. Eastlund
The use of satellites, HAARP and microwave frequencies to manipulate and
control severe weather patterns is Science reality.

© 2000 WorldNetDaily.com
3-31-00


Borderland Sciences has recently received two very significant research papers authored by Dr. Bernard J. Eastlund:

SYSTEMS CONSIDERATIONS OF WEATHER MODIFICATION EXPERIMENTS USING HIGH POWER ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIATION, Published in Proceedings of "Workshop on Space Exploration andResources Exploitation-Explospace," 20-22 October, 1998, Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy. MESOCYCLONE DIAGNOSTIC REQUIREMENTS FOR THUNDERSTORM SOLAR POWER SATELLITE CONCEPT, Published in the Proceedings of "The Second Conference on the Applications of RemoteSensing and GIS for Disaster Management," January 19-21, 1999. Some of the highlights contained in these reports are: * HAARP* MISSLE SHIELD ANTENNA (terrawatt phased array antenna)* NORTH SLOPE GAS CONCEPT WEATHER MODIFICATION* OZONE HOLE MITIGATION EFFECTS* HIGH POWER SOLAR SATELLITES FOR WEATHER MODIFICATION* POWER RELAY IONOSPHERIC MIRRORS* INTERVENTION IN TORNADO GENESIS* SAFETY Dr. Eastlund stressed safety as a foremost consideration and stated:

Here is a link to the paper:
rense.com...

I'd like to see that microwave gun idea for a pest invasion, roast a bunch of bugs in mid-air. Then you'd have hot air. The tornado weather brings rain, a necessary part of farming, so boiling the air seems like a half-baked idea.

When I first got to see tornado prone places, there were trucks driving by with huge windmill fins on them. At the time I thought they were a regular anti-tornado device (get it, at the time I thought the south had gotten smart about the forces of nature), where you literally take that gigantic blade and stick it straight up in the ground, maybe along a line, and they would shape the air preventing a strong wind force from forming, much like a rudder on a ship in the water pushes the water around to suit the people controlling it. I thought the big white blades were put around big cities to block the air currents closer to the ground. In hindsight, I was a bit stupid and they were meant for being attached to giant windmills to give way to the wind for energy. Still the idea might work, but you also might lose a cooling breeze in the summer.

They might have to be really tall wind rudders in the ground, but would it be worth it over rebuilding over and over again?

reply to post by AlienView

I've seen it.
Terrawatt transmitter? Good luck with that. Not sure the theory holds up even if you get that kind of power.

I get the impression Eastlund sort of got carried away toward the end of his life.

reply to post by Phage

That might be but he left a great legacy to consider.

Here is another interesting page to view from GEO-ENGINEERING WATCH INTERNATIONAL:

COSMIC IGNITION WEATHER MODIFICATION TOOLS The plasma formed in the atmosphere using the cosmic particle ignition methods can be used for weather research and weather modification in a number of ways. The plasma can act as a heater. It can be designed to have energy deposited in the air. This energy can be used to heat water droplets in the case of tornado modification or to generate acoustic and gravitational waves by heating the atmosphere and modulating the heating rate by modulating the power of the heating beam. The heating can be applied to specific portions of a hurricane and potentially modify its strength or direction.

Here is the page:
geoengineeringwatchint.wordpress.com...

I also noticed he was apparently involved in the famous [or infamous] HAARP project that a lot of government conspiracy fans blame on much of the bad weather in the world today - The HAARP program I believe is still active and was supposedly meant for intelligence gathering not weather modification.

reply to post by AlienView

Please do not quote that site. It is nothing but nonsense.

Eastlund was not directly involved with HAARP, if at all. He had proposed a similar but magnitudes more powerful ionospheric heating system.

HAARP is involved with ionospheric research in a variety of directions. Some of that research has the potential to be used for intelligence work with the possibility of over the horizon radar applications. Research into denying enemy surveillance (by radar satellites) probably has more promise for that sort of thing.

Tornado research will continue. We have all heard about the famous tornado scientists killed a few days ago by a tornado:

(Reuters) - Three storm chasers were among 13 people killed by tornadoes that rampaged through central Oklahoma on Friday, underscoring the high risk of tracking tornadoes and forcing the media to rethink how they cover deadly twisters. Tim Samaras, 55, a leading storm chaser and founder of the tornado research company Twistex, was killed in the Oklahoma City suburb of El Reno along with his son, Paul Samaras, 24, and Carl Young, 45, a Twistex meteorologist, according to a statement from Tim Samaras' brother, Jim Samaras.

,
But the research will continue. More will be learned about the formation of tornadoes. Will man ever develop the ability to stop them? As I have shown in this thread some scientists see the possibility of tornado destruction. But the amount of energy necessary to stop the natural energy released by a tornado would be a challenge not easily met. On the other hand as the state of the art in tornado watching and study becomes more extensive it is possible that one day we will be able to predict tornado formation before it actually happens. If that day arises I would consider that it might be easier to subtly alter the weather at points where a tornado is about to form. Very hard to stop a tornado once raging, we might find it is easier to predict and stop it before it forms.

reply to post by AlienView

Yes, it will continue. But with an eye toward prediction rather than mitigation. This won't really help with property damage bit it can certainly help save lives.

Well I think HAARP has created more than a few tornados and hurricanes and it can probably stop natural ones, so will the grey hats turn into white hats please. i want them to go home too in the end.

I'm also going to mention the metaphysics, though most give credence to the concrete material world around them. To me its a hologram and I've already experienced a few "miracles" with envisioning. Thought creates, and higher frequency love is the key to changing this world. Spirit and thought outrank HAARP, in real ability, if enough wake up.

Or just avoid tornado alley. I mean are tornados really that common outside of the US? In the US they aren't that common ouside of tornado alley (though sometimes the storms continue east and tornados will form in I'L, OH, TN, KY, and a few other states in the path of storms coming from the midwest.

I know Canada gets them from time to time. I'm just curious about other parts of the world. I don't think there's any place where they get these EF4 and EF5 mega twisters like Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, and Missouri.

reply to post by TheRedneck


I drove through the giant Tornado outbreak last year. I'm not from the midwest so I wasn't used to tuning into my radio habitually because where I'm from it's not a life risk to listen to your ipod for an entire drive. I noticed big rigs pulled over and kept going. I drove right into an area with 13 confirmed touchdowns and drove right through a debris field. I don't know how close I was to a twister because of the buckets of water, but the wind had a pull on the car making acceleration difficult and the dirt and tree branches going across the window is what I imagine looking at the wall of a tornado is like. When I got us to the hotel the people were freaked out that we were on the highway and said there were several rainwrapped twisters out there we wouldn't have see them very well. My dad is convinced we punched or at least skirted a weak one and I can't say it's impossible. It was the storm that killed I think three people in Missouri. Turned into a three day ordeal. I think there ended up being 23 tornados that first night.

reply to post by Phage


With how intense some of the latest storms have been I'm surprised life insurance companies aren't putting community shelters in towns where they have several clients. It does seem like the last few years there have been more incidences of EF4 and 5 tornados, but maybe it just seems that way because they have been hitting populated areas and therefore are covered more.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

If you were to tell me that story here in Alabama, the response would be something along the lines of, "Son, yer preacher needs a raise!"

It sounds like you skirted the edge of an EF-1 or EF-2, possibly widely skirted an EF-3. Consider yourself extremely lucky; an EF-1 can just wipe a car off the road with a single burst of air.

I was driving a truck through Wyoming once and caught sight of a dust devil way up ahead to the right of the road. It caught my eye because it was so big; we have dust devils here in the summer, but they're tiny little things. I watched it maybe a minute, then turned my attention back to driving. When I looked for it again, I didn't see it. The reason I didn't see it was because it had left the dirt field it was in and was on the highway directly in front of me. I know where it went because when I hit it a few seconds later, an 80,000 pound semi with me in it suddenly was on the opposite shoulder of the road.

I saw the beasty in my mirror after I corrected, becoming visible again as it finished crossing the road.

That was just a big dust devil, smaller than an EF-1.

About a century ago, Paint Rock was the big city in Jackson County. It was a thriving town. One night, an estimated EF-5 (they didn't have good methods to verify wind speed back then) came through town. Nothing was left to rebuild. Today, Paint Rock consists of two road signs a half-mile apart, a candy distributor just past one of those, and a half-dozen houses.

I grew up with that legend, but I never really understood it until April 27, 2011. Several subdivisions were erased, one in Rainsville. Not destroyed; erased. They simply didn't exist any more. When I saw what wasn't left, I immediately thought of the legend of the Paint Rock tornado, and finally understood.

I don't think anyone truly understands until they see the results of a tornado. I know I didn't. That's not to denigrate anyone; it's simply a fact. Mother Nature is kind enough to allow us to live here, and when she gets mad...

You live a charmed life, sir.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
Or just avoid tornado alley. I mean are tornados really that common outside of the US? In the US they aren't that common ouside of tornado alley (though sometimes the storms continue east and tornados will form in I'L, OH, TN, KY, and a few other states in the path of storms coming from the midwest.

I know Canada gets them from time to time. I'm just curious about other parts of the world. I don't think there's any place where they get these EF4 and EF5 mega twisters like Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, and Missouri.

Bangladesh has the occasional tornado. About 8 years ago...Bangladesh had a mile wide tornado on the ground, that killed alot of people; but I don't know whether it was an EF-5 or not. Most hurricanes and typhoons harbor tornadoes.

Despite all the naysayers with all there nincompoopery...the effect of global warming will increase the temperature of warm, moist Gulf of Mexico air --- thusly creating [when the conditions are ripe] for more devastating tornadoes in certain parts of the United States --- with more catastrophic loss of life, people exiled from there homelands --- due too the frequency of tornadoes; that will make there land virtually unlivable and unafforable.

I still hold too my theory on my last thread [Tornadic diffusion technology --- ATS --- Science and Technology]:that numerous hypersonic anti-rotational [clockwise] aerial drones around the forming/formed mesocyclone wall cloud of a tornado...will disrupt the rotational counterclockwise [Gulf of Mexico] warm moist air from feeding into the wall cloud of a tornado spike; with the resulting dissipation of the tornado and/or wall cloud.

Even though my theory is still unproven...I challenge anybody to deny any hint of feasability, that my tornadic diffusion theory might have a chance of working; if we had the proper hypersonic drone technology.

Cheers,

Erno86

reply to post by Phage


Yeah, after I wrote that I thought about super volcanoes and realized they would be more violent. But as far as storms go I am pretty sure they take the cake. An EF5 can pack wind speeds that are otherwise unheard of. There isn't a whole lot that can withstand a storm like that.