The REALLY big questions: Why?

reply to post by jiggerj

If there is an intelligent designer then he definitely had to have a need: maybe he's lonely, maybe he needs soldiers in a war in heaven, I dunno, but just the mere fact that a god needed to create us proves that he's not perfect.

Says who? You? Who are you? You make alot of assumptions for something that you don't know anything about. Wanting and needing are 2 different things. He didn't "need" to create us, he "wanted" to create us. Maybe your idea of perfection is not his idea of perfection. Who determines what perfection is? Certainly not you, being a flawed being you have no idea what perfection is, you can't experience it so you have nothing to base your ideas on except for what you know and experience and that is where your limit ends. He doesn't have your limitations, so his idea of perfection would make yours nothing.

reply to post by jiggerj


The problem is you will never know. Even if you went to a so called heaven and asked the one who called himself God of heaven where he came from, he wouldn't be able to answer you. It's impossible for us to be here but yet we are. These questions plague my mind and will for eternity.

So many theories and thoughts. I'm sure its something as simple as understanding that yourself is actually God and you are connected to everything in the universe as it's all one thing. there is no individuality and this is our manifestations.

If you get any answers to what you're looking for please let me know.

I was fortunate enough to meet God once in an oob experience and I asked him, "Why"? His answer hit me in a way I wasn't expecting and in words I didn't expect. He said, "Why for not, eh?". Those were his exact words. Now I admit I don't know it was God but it was an extremely powerful present force and I just knew it was God somehow. It was an experience ill never forget.

I really dont know why we were created i guess its question when we meet our maker....


I also think if we knew our purpose life maybe freewill could be effected our mind couldnt cope with it...so its best while we are here not to think about it

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Akragon

 

God created the universe so he could experience himself from a a different perspective then "self"

That's not bad, AK.

We all daydream of being and doing something other than what we are. But, I don't retain all of those daydreams. So, what would be the point of this god creating a heaven for us if we are his daydream?

It might no be called heaven or have the attributes that humans give heaven in religion. Have you ever wondered why humans in the bible said Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness. Was that a mistake or have we misunderstood the nature of god and just ended up with idols not giving the bigger picture?

reply to post by jiggerj

I'm just saying that none of the god theories make any sense.

Think about what you can see. Lots of people.
You are aware of them because you and they exist in a material universe.
Where did they come from? The universe, or somewhere else?
I would submit that we came from a pre-universe, non-material existence.
If you accept that, then the next step, I would suggest, would be to see that the most likely initiators of a creation would be us. The reason should be evident by what is observable, which is physical interaction between individuals.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You make alot of assumptions for something that you don't know anything about.

LOL Religion is ALL assumptions. I claim the right to voice my own, and also claim my assumptions to be more logical.

You want to believe a god exists? Fine.
You want to believe that this god has always existed? Okay, we'll go with that.
But, you want to believe that he was ALWAYS aware that he existed, that he was ALWAYS perfect and ALWAYS knew EVERYTHING. That is utter bull.

There had to have been a time when this god was unaware of himself - in a long unthinking sleep. Then there had to have been a moment when he woke up and became aware that he was formless, alone, and without knowledge. He had to have been in a state of misery and despair that we can't possibly comprehend.

He must have asked himself, 'Am I the only one?"

ONE! It was his first thought, which led to the question of what if there were two? Or, three? Having invented numbers he probably spent a few hundred thousand of our years mastering all that can be known about math.

But, the answers to the great questions eluded him, and still does: Who and what am I? What is right and wrong, good and bad?

Unable to figure these things out because there was no other like him to compare himself to, he needed to create others; to watch them and learn from them. WE are his tools.

Which would you find more logical?
1. That he created a snotty, pooping, peeing, murdering, sinful, greedy, filthy animal because he loved the idea of us?
Or, 2., that we serve a genuine purpose, being that we are his doorway to understanding who and what HE is? It is only through our actions that he can analyze and realize the difference between right and wrong, and between good or bad. Did we recently teach HIM that he is infinite energy? I don't know, but I find that very possible.

I also find it much more rewarding to think that we are not his plaything, but that we are very much needed and serve a much higher purpose.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jiggerj

 

I'm just saying that none of the god theories make any sense.

Think about what you can see. Lots of people.
You are aware of them because you and they exist in a material universe.
Where did they come from? The universe, or somewhere else?
I would submit that we came from a pre-universe, non-material existence.
If you accept that, then the next step, I would suggest, would be to see that the most likely initiators of a creation would be us. The reason should be evident by what is observable, which is physical interaction between individuals.

Though I doubt we'll ever figure this out, what you wrote just FEELS right. Won't claim it true or false, it just feels right.

reply to post by jiggerj


I imagine God as the most evolved form of man imaginable. Able to create all that we see inside a single thought. Then I try to imagine what that would mean, and I think if a man were truly evolved he would be like Christ. In that he would display power but only use it for good, he would in essence become love. Weather God evolved to become pure love or simply God has always existed as pure love, who knows.

But I would say the purpose would be simple. I can never imagine having too much love. If it is possible to have all the love in the universe and then simply create more, why would anyone stop creating more love?

We were created to add more love to love, and to become one with love, thus increasing the size of love. Love can grow forever, if you continue to water it.

Pursue love and you find love.

reply to post by jiggerj

LOL Religion is ALL assumptions. I claim the right to voice my own, and also claim my assumptions to be more logical.

No, what you have is your own imagination. What we have is the testimony of people who were with him, walked with him and talked to him. People who spent years with him. As in the case of Moses, over 40 years and the other prophets like Isaiah almost 60 years in some cases.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Akragon

 

What if we did do it right, and just wanted to do it again?

Like riding the Colossus, or any wooden rollercoaster? The adreniline rush of wondering how we are to die on the first dive after the grand hill, then relieve the mistakes over and over until we get it right. Im going to buy the ticket (hate the standing in line part of it).

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by jiggerj

 

I imagine God as the most evolved form of man imaginable. Able to create all that we see inside a single thought. Then I try to imagine what that would mean, and I think if a man were truly evolved he would be like Christ. In that he would display power but only use it for good, he would in essence become love. Weather God evolved to become pure love or simply God has always existed as pure love, who knows.
But I would say the purpose would be simple. I can never imagine having too much love. If it is possible to have all the love in the universe and then simply create more, why would anyone stop creating more love?
We were created to add more love to love, and to become one with love, thus increasing the size of love. Love can grow forever, if you continue to water it. Pursue love and you find love.

If you imagine God as the most evolved form, and say man is the imaginable from its OWN thought, are you not saying Man is the expression of itself/God in Man; where lies the difference between the two, one is gross matter the other etherial (same but existing in different dimensions). Where does the Jesus componant lie as a 'Christos'; annointed one. Not SO Jesus would NEVER take upon himself that Mantle (not his message at all). God is in the process of evolving, just like you and I cannot say Its purity is in tact, as in it also created all elements of Evil, Darkness and the residing aspect of "no knowledge of sadonisism, satire, irony or any other element of HUMOR exists here". God created this as well, the hate aspect versus in tandum the Love. You can take up either to express or explain yourself to it as you are INDIVIDUALIZED and free to think do what you wish as ITS EXPRESSION of ITSELF. Who has the loudest voice? One would hope Love force energy.

Originally posted by damwel
I was fortunate enough to meet God once in an oob experience and I asked him, "Why"? His answer hit me in a way I wasn't expecting and in words I didn't expect. He said, "Why for not, eh?". Those were his exact words. Now I admit I don't know it was God but it was an extremely powerful present force and I just knew it was God somehow. It was an experience ill never forget.

Are you certain it was "why for not,eh?" misinterpreted as "why not?". So you did not die from/during the OOB and had to come back to understand Its meaning (I see humor here).

Originally posted by deadeyedick
Well if it ends up being that we are here to suffer in the flesh in order to achieve our next level of existence then it looks like we are right on track.

And it takes only 200-500 reincarnations average to come to the brillant conclusion; the true definition of masochism. Who then is the sadist in this equation?

reply to post by jiggerj


She created our perceived existence out of our necessity to experience her. We had very much to do with our own destinies here.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by jiggerj

 

LOL Religion is ALL assumptions. I claim the right to voice my own, and also claim my assumptions to be more logical.

No, what you have is your own imagination. What we have is the testimony of people who were with him, walked with him and talked to him. People who spent years with him. As in the case of Moses, over 40 years and the other prophets like Isaiah almost 60 years in some cases.

No, what you have is a book of fiction with an illogical plot and a million flaws.

some ways I look on it are that god could create whatever he wants but there was no sense in it so he created this one where he has no control anymore and lets us run with it. or something along the lines that gods immagination was limited so he created this to open up his eyes also.

it does seem to suggest some kind of awakening or struggle to me though.

JiggerJ,

grab a bible, and brainwash yourself with the psalms.

Work in your garden (if you own one).

I hope you find the strenght to start anew every day. For me, sometimes there's not much. You see, people aren't Always acting Godlike, so there may be a handfull of negativity on your side. When there's no suffering, things are pleasant. Sometimes we do not understand things. Bad words coming from friends etc. . In such case to forgive is to move on. All people are different I suppose.

I suppose friends are what's important in life. May you have your share JiggerJ.

I don't know if any of you have thought of Hell and Satan in this way before but, what if Hell is not what we are told it is, where the sinners go to be punished. Surely Lucifer wants to build an army to one day take over the world and fight the armies of God.

What if all the scumbags; for example, murderers and rapists go to Hell not to be punished but to join Satan's army but, that makes me think, if you do something bad in life God can forgive all sins, maybe the people who go to Hell are the ones who refuse God when they reach the gates of Heaven, those who refuse to change, those who would still kill even in Heaven.

Now, would He allow people to approach the gates of Heaven even if they have committed the worst sins, to be forgiven, or would he condemn them to Hell, which may not be so bad.

If I was the Lord of Hell I would want the worst people mankind could offer to be part of my army but, if God kept taking them from me I would be slightly annoyed and be struggling to build my army for the appocalypse

Originally posted by jiggerj
Whether you believe that the biblical god created everything just for us, or just that the universe had to have had some kind of intelligent designer, the question is: Why was the universe created?

Some will say that a god loved us, so he created the universe. Well, how could he love something that he hadn't created yet?

What is the purpose of living for all eternity in heaven after we die? If we will no longer experience pain, hate, revenge, envy, jealousy....if these things are stripped away from us then we will no longer be human. So, what is the point of THIS life? If we are here to learn how to overcome negative emotions, only to have those emotions taken away from us, then what is the point of having them in the first place?

If there is an intelligent designer then he definitely had to have a need: maybe he's lonely, maybe he needs soldiers in a war in heaven, I dunno, but just the mere fact that a god needed to create us proves that he's not perfect.

I'm just saying that none of the god theories make any sense.

edit on 6/4/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

jigger,

God created humanity to be with Him forever one day and you want to spend eternity continuing on with pain,
hate, revenge, envy and jealousy? None of your list was in the original plan, Satan, then Adam changed the
the plan. God respects free will, He had to come up with another plan. Love is always His reason.

A message to Mother Eugenia given in the 1930s. Every time I read the Father's words here, I am reminded of who the Father is, oh joy. When you get down or feel unloved, remember, okay?

love,

colbe

+ + +

July 1, 1932

...Realize then, o men, that for all eternity I have had but one desire, to make Myself known to men and be loved by them. I wish to stay for ever with them.

Do you want an authentic proof of this desire that I have just expressed? Why did I command Moses to build a tabernacle and the ark of the covenant, if not to come and dwell, as a Father, a brother, a close friend, with My creatures, men? This was My ardent desire. In spite of this, they have forgotten Me and offended Me with countless sins. I gave Moses My commandments to remind them, in spite of everything, of God, their Father, and of His sole wish, to save them. They were supposed to observe the commandments and thereby remember their infinitely good Father, always intent upon their present and eternal salvation. All this was forgotten and men sank into error and fear, considering that the observance of the commandments as I had transmitted them to Moses was too taxing. They made up other laws in accordance with their whims, in order to observe them more easily. Little by little, in the exaggerated fear they had of Me, they forgot Me more and more and heaped outrages upon Me. Yet My love for these men, My children, never quite ceased. When I realized that neither the patriarchs nor the prophets had been able to make Me known and loved by men, I decided to come Myself. But how could I come among them? There was no other way than to come Myself, in the second Person of My divinity. Would men know Me? Would they listen to Me? Nothing in the future was hidden from Me; I Myself answered these two questions: “They will ignore My presence, even though they will be near Me. In My Son they will treat Me cruelly, notwithstanding all the good He will do for them. In My Son they will speak ill of Me, they will crucify Me to bring about My death.” Shall I stop because of this? No, My love for My children, men, is too great.

I did not stop there. Understand well that I loved you, as it were, more than My beloved Son, or rather, more than Myself. What I am telling you is so true that, if one of My creatures had been enough to atone for the sins of other men through a life and death similar to those of My Son, I would have hesitated. Why? Because I would have betrayed My love by making a beloved creature suffer, rather than suffering Myself, in My Son. I would never have wished My children to suffer.

This, then, in brief, is the story of My love until My coming among men through My Son. Most men know of all these events, but they fail to grasp the essential thing: that love was the guiding principle in it all! Yes, it is love. This is what I want to impress upon you. Now this love has been forgotten. I want to remind you of it, so that you can learn to know Me as I am, so that you will not be, like slaves, afraid of a Father Who loves you so much. ...


www.fatherspeaks.net...