The REALLY big questions: Why?

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Akragon

 

Its a place for recollection... And contimplation... Where we have a chance to review our actions (or lack there of) and see how they affected the people around us... And given the opportunity to try again if we happen to mess up...

Why? What do we ultimately get out of it? What does the creator get out of it?

WE progress... And God experiences our incarnation with us... from every perspective possible...

Though every person that has ever existed

The reason god "created" (I use that term loosely) the universe is so that he had something to experience. He experiences himself through us and he is not separate from us in any way. We are god, but from countless different perspectives.

I imagine the afterlife being much like this life, except from a different perspective/body.

I think religion has twisted the meaning of heaven to represent something other than what we experience now. We are already in heaven and we are already experiencing the "afterlife".

reply to post by jiggerj


So we could sing together. How does harmony work and why does it matter? Where are you in the scale? Are you dissonance or are you finding the octave? M Hayes I would recommend his books. His blog summarizes a few of his ideas. Before you get meaning, you must have faith. Faith comes from God and evidence of God is not hard to find. Engage your belief and faith comes. If not, you can sing alone.

Any bookstore has his books. Once you know God cannot be denied, is found in every culture and is unified to the central message, you too will sing the same tune. You can't know until you find the melody and start humming. I keep trying to show you, but you refuse to listen.

reply to post by jiggerj


Dear jiggerj,

What is the purpose of living for all eternity in heaven after we die? If we will no longer experience pain, hate, revenge, envy, jealousy....if these things are stripped away from us then we will no longer be human. So, what is the point of THIS life? If we are here to learn how to overcome negative emotions, only to have those emotions taken away from us, then what is the point of having them in the first place?

Lets ignore the God question and deal with the what question for a moment. What are we? We are consciousness, the one fact that we cannot deny to ourselves. We cannot prove to ourselves that we do not exist. The second question is where does consciousness come from and is it eternal. That is the one that is the scariest, eternity. How could one find eternity bearable?

So what is the point of this life, it is to define yourself. We have control over who we choose to be. We may not control the economy, we may not control where we were born or our parents; but, we do get to choose who we become and none of us become perfect. When we die, we don't cease being us, we get the consequences of being us. We are not damned to hell nor do we end up on an eternal high, we get to choose our eternity, or at least how we begin it once we understand the reality of it.

Let me give you a hypothetical. It says that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. What if there was only one consciousness and nothing else. If you were that one consciousness what would you do? Would you just be or would you attempt to do something with your time? What if you split yourself into individual beings while retaining your totality of existence?

Originally posted by jiggerj
...What is the purpose of living for all eternity in heaven after we die? If we will no longer experience pain, hate, revenge, envy, jealousy....if these things are stripped away from us then we will no longer be human. So, what is the point of THIS life? If we are here to learn how to overcome negative emotions, only to have those emotions taken away from us, then what is the point of having them in the first place?
...

Great question/s...again!

Why do all of the major religions (to include Buddhism, though there is debate on its status as a religion) start with - "You come into this life...OWING!"?
Maybe that's true, &/or correct...but, boy does it seem inequitable.
According to Christianity, Jesus wasn't saddled with this same burden. (At least, large portions of Christianity hold to this tenet.) According to Hinduism, Krishna...was...special. According to Buddhism - "The Buddha" - was born...special.
I'll stop there.
Thanks again for the teasing thoughts!

reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

WE progress... And God experiences our incarnation with us... from every perspective possible... Though every person that has ever existed

We are in partial agreement and I always like that. I don't think we end up being everyone else, I think we end up meeting all those who choose to be in the same place. I think we continue to work on us forever as we know others even better. Peace.

reply to post by AQuestion


If you think of eternity as a new, fresh beginning every time you die, then it becomes more bearable. I would hate to have to live with the same thoughts/memories for eternity. At some point I would think all those memories would cause an overload then madness.

Thankfully, since I believe in eternal reincarnation, that scenario is not applicable in my worldview. Each time you are reincarnated, you only keep the important lessons like knowing fire burns, heights can kill, etc. while you discard the unnecessary lessons, as in what you ate for supper last night, when the last time you took a shower was, etc.

I think we are already a part of eternity, only our short lifespan here on Earth veils that fact.

Well if it ends up being that we are here to suffer in the flesh in order to achieve our next level of existence then it looks like we are right on track.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Dear 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If you think of eternity as a new, fresh beginning every time you die, then it becomes more bearable. I would hate to have to live with the same thoughts/memories for eternity. At some point I would think all those memories would cause an overload then madness.

Buy you do not think the same as you did when you were 3, nor remember everything that you felt, you eternally evolving already. We face many challenges on earth, it is the hardest gig there could be, tested to our limits by our weaknesses and always with the ability to change and grow as we see fit. What if you get to choose your eternity and you chose eternal reincarnation, would you want to have the chance to change your decision if you changed your mind? Maybe that is how it is. Peace.

Maybe he wanted somebody to love. Yeah so maybe he was lonely.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Akragon

 

Its a place for recollection... And contimplation... Where we have a chance to review our actions (or lack there of) and see how they affected the people around us... And given the opportunity to try again if we happen to mess up...

Why? What do we ultimately get out of it? What does the creator get out of it?

WE progress... And God experiences our incarnation with us... from every perspective possible...

Though every person that has ever existed

But the perfect, all-knowing god already knows this. Are you implying that there are things that a god doesn't know and must learn? If so, GOOD! We are turning god into something more believable.

reply to post by AQuestion

So what is the point of this life, it is to define yourself. We have control over who we choose to be. We may not control the economy, we may not control where we were born or our parents; but, we do get to choose who we become and none of us become perfect. When we die, we don't cease being us, we get the consequences of being us. We are not damned to hell nor do we end up on an eternal high, we get to choose our eternity, or at least how we begin it once we understand the reality of it.

If we are to define ourselves with the chemicals in our brain controlling (or even just assisting) how we think and feel, then what good does this do when we die and leave those physical influences behind?

Let me give you a hypothetical. It says that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. What if there was only one consciousness and nothing else. If you were that one consciousness what would you do? Would you just be or would you attempt to do something with your time?

Yes, Yes, YES! I would attempt to do something with my time to avoid loneliness and boredom. I would have to do this because I am not perfect.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


But we don't "sing" together do we? There are so many different gods and denominations of certain gods that it seems like god has failed in his attempt to make us "sing in harmony".

Can god fail anything he attempts?

Originally posted by celticsea
Maybe he wanted somebody to love. Yeah so maybe he was lonely.

And I say this as not a bad thing, just a more reasonable thing to believe, that maybe this god isn't 100% perfect.

reply to post by jiggerj

But the perfect, all-knowing god already knows this.

Where does it say that?

We literally know nothing about God except "what is given" as it says...

Are you implying that there are things that a god doesn't know and must learn? If so, GOOD! We are turning god into something more believable.

Well if you consider us to be "parts" of the whole, even part of God... then yes... a part of him must learn how we should act according to the spirit as opposed to the flesh...

reply to post by jiggerj


Dear jiggerj,

If we are to define ourselves with the chemicals in our brain controlling (or even just assisting) how we think and feel, then what good does this do when we die and leave those physical influences behind?

We define ourselves even though things attempt to influence our decisions. That is the whole point, choosing who to be even when it is difficult.

Yes, Yes, YES! I would attempt to do something with my time to avoid loneliness and boredom. I would have to do this because I am not perfect.

So, God formed a universe. The only way to avoid boredom while still remaining you would have to involve an eternally evolving universe with eternally more to learn. New little consciousnesses would need to be given time to adjust. When we are born the doctor slaps our butts into reality and then we cry. It is not as warm, stress free and cozy as being in mommy's belly; but, then we learn this reality and hopefully make peace with it and ourselves. The next transition is like the first, just as awe inspiring and different. I have yet to meet a person who had an NDE that I believed that saw it any different.

reply to post by jiggerj

Dreamless sleep? Is that your view on what heaven is like? How does the time we spend recharging have any relevance to this?

You said we would no longer be human if we don't experience pain, hate, revenge, envy, jealousy...
So.... do we stop being human in a dreamless sleep where we don't experience such negative questions?

If god gathers us to himself for the joy we might bring him, this implies that he doesn't automatically have joy where he is. This means that this god is lonely. And, being lonely is state of imperfection. And yet, if the basic premise is that he IS lonely, it would make more sense than anything I've heard about this god so far.

That he is lonely is simply the premise of YOUR assumption.

Like I said, I work as a designer and sometimes I just create something and pin it up. Unless people can read my mind... they can at best, only guess why I created that...you are doing pretty much the same, attempting to read the mind of God. You can only assume.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

they can at best, only guess why I created that...you are doing pretty much the same, attempting to read the mind of God. You can only assume.

Correct. We can only assume, but at least we can make a god more logical. What I find amusing is that the diehard bible thumpers and believers in a perfect god are either staying away from this thread or treading lightly.

reply to post by jiggerj


does die hard Gospel count?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

But we don't "sing" together do we? There are so many different gods and denominations of certain gods that it seems like god has failed in his attempt to make us "sing in harmony".

Can god fail anything he attempts?

God allows free will. Man fails. How would we know harmony if there was no dissonance? When a piano is tuned to equal temperament, it does not sound in tune. The reason for this is that frequency needs to be stretched up on higher notes and lower notes need to be stretched down slightly. If not, octaves do not match perfectly. Even so, this is a compromise. The only way for pure harmony is within individual instruments. A brass choir, for instance, can play perfectly in tune by changing every pitch individually to get pure intervals. This is something a piano cannot do. You are wanting a piano tuned perfectly. God knows the secret to this is found in the individual differences that can only come from the single pitch being adjusted constantly. Whatever you can see in a lesser case applies to the greater. Your frustration comes from the fact you disagree with music theory.

Psalm 19

1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.
5 It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,
like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
6 It rises at one end of the heavens
and makes its circuit to the other;
nothing is deprived of its warmth.

Nothing is deprived. You ask loaded questions and already have your own mind made up. Unless you take it again as a child, you are stuck grumbling about the fact the choir is out of tune. It can and will be in tune. This is not the performance hall. This is the classroom.