Decrypt your drives or go to jail indefinitely!

If Lois Lerner can plead the 5th, so can this guy and everyone else.

Jut my opinion =)

Originally posted by BrokenCircles
reply to post by davespanners

 

Originally posted by davespanners

Could he get away with just 'playing dumb'?

Maybe something similar to, "Sorry, but I just can't remember how to decrypt those files. I had written some pertinent notes down on a piece of paper, but I have no idea where it's at now. Last time I saw it, was before you guys came in and trashed my house. I don't know what you did with it."

Absolutely, gave you a star for that.
Better 99 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man go to jail. Don't remember who said that but it still holds true. I'm not saying evil people (if such he is) should be protected but in the environment we live in now people need more protection from the government than anything else. I have plenty of encrypted files, none illegal, and they can go suck eggs before they get anything from me other than "gee, can't remember."

Yes this guy should be behind bars. However, there are some other questions that don't sit to well. E-Donkey is hosting the material with no recourse what so ever. Police authorities are closely monitoring, knowing full well E-Donkey and other sites host the files themselves or Torrents for the content. They want to continue profiting off of rats going down the manhole, but won't put a cover on the manhole.

Originally posted by sean
E-Donkey is hosting the material with no recourse what so ever.

E-donkey is a peer-to-peer network. It doesn't host anything, the peers host the files, per the e-donkey wiki:

The EDonkey Networks (also known as the eDonkey2000 network or eD2k) is a decentralized, mostly server-based, peer-to-peer file sharing network best suited to share big files among users, and to provide long term availability of files. Like most sharing networks, it is decentralized, as there is not any central hub for the network; also, files are not stored on a central server but are exchanged directly between users based on the peer-to-peer principle.

Police authorities are closely monitoring, knowing full well E-Donkey and other sites host the files themselves or Torrents for the content. They want to continue profiting off of rats going down the manhole, but won't put a cover on the manhole.

I wonder if the police are actually one of the peers hosting the file. That might make it easier to see who is downloading it from them. But I don't really know how they monitor it if they aren't one of the peers.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by sean
E-Donkey is hosting the material with no recourse what so ever.

E-donkey is a peer-to-peer network. It doesn't host anything, the peers host the files, per the e-donkey wiki:

The EDonkey Networks (also known as the eDonkey2000 network or eD2k) is a decentralized, mostly server-based, peer-to-peer file sharing network best suited to share big files among users, and to provide long term availability of files. Like most sharing networks, it is decentralized, as there is not any central hub for the network; also, files are not stored on a central server but are exchanged directly between users based on the peer-to-peer principle.

Police authorities are closely monitoring, knowing full well E-Donkey and other sites host the files themselves or Torrents for the content. They want to continue profiting off of rats going down the manhole, but won't put a cover on the manhole.

I wonder if the police are actually one of the peers hosting the file. That might make it easier to see who is downloading it from them. But I don't really know how they monitor it if they aren't one of the peers.

If E-donkey don't host the file directly then they host the tracker to the file which is just as bad.

Originally posted by Sankari
I am not a fan of people who think it's OK to bend and twist the Constitution in all directions just so criminals can stay one step ahead of the law.

If the guy is innocent he'll be happy to decrypt those files and prove it. At this point his refusal to decrypt them is an act of self-incrimination.

Maybe he has bank account numbers and pass-codes on his computer that he doesnt want the corrupt police officers and lawyers to see?

In America we have innocent until proven guilty NOT you're guilty until you prove you are innocent.

Originally posted by LeLeu
I think that if the guy has nothing to hide then he should comply with the courts request, especially if it could prove his innocents to the charges he is facing. His failure to do so kind of makes him look guilty, just sayin'.

Maybe you should live in a see-through house? You know, just so we can make sure you're not doing anything illegal. I'm sure you would have no problem with people watching you take a dump, right?

...and how about see-through clothing as well? Just to make sure you are not hiding anything. Who cares about privacy as long as I know you arent breaking the law.

Oh wait, you want your privacy right? Hmm, funny how that works.

I wish this guy worked for the CIA or something and there was really cool evidence of conspiracys and alien stuff on there not indecent porn and thats why he refuses to decrypt!

reply to post by ownbestenemy


im not into child porn so i would have nothing to hide from the "govenment"

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Something just occurred to me to bring up here. Perhaps some of ATS's Police members can address this for an answer?

Why did they get warrants and go kicking doors for the hope that maybe he'd have what they wanted? Why hope he may give them passwords or keys? (The latter being a reasonable expectation these days..or at least a reasonable possibility to find being used).

I've read a number of books over the years of the non-fiction variety about both Organized Crime and Espionage cases where they cared to get the people and get it air tight and done right. In those cases, they bug the living crap out of locations in both Audio and later, when tech allowed it for reasonable costs, Video. Not Undercovers that would require massive resources for a kiddie porn guy, but just a single 'excursion' to the home, with warrant, to bug the place for sound and video? Either could easily be recorded without a whole team to monitor it, as was usually required in O.C. cases.

With that approach, they could literally FILM the guy watching his kiddie porn videos and pictures on his computer AS WELL AS whatever he typed in or used to decrypt his little stashes of files. All in hand and before the door kickers came to collect him up for prosecution. Who knows, they may have just found more they aren't even aware of, even now.

So why not? Why don't they approach some of these really heinous cases with the same technology and tools as other cases they've been used in? If they care..they care to do it right?? Or is that it? The 'Do it right' just isn't worth the trouble when half ass work DOES work in 8 out of 10 cases anyway?

Any Law Enforcement want to take that one for a trip around the dance floor?

Now THAT is an excellent point!

There is already software available to do that very thing, and has been for a long time. Keyloggers. "RATs" (remote access terminals). These are the scary things we all hear about that they call "trojans", and are nearly tailor-made for this sort of surveillance. All they would need would be a warrant (probable cause from the trail that found the two videos at that IP address), and a decent hacker. Wouldn't even have to go inside the house and risk being caught installing them - they could do it from an old Buick across the street, from Police HQ, heck, I've known of people to do it from a basement halfway around the world!

The search warrant would make it all nice, cozy, and legal. Keyloggers and RATs are not inherently illegal - they have legitimate uses (like this), but it's the uses to which they are put that make folks believe they are illegal.

With a Cheetos-stained 15 year old kid in their employ who had a clue, they could "social engineer" the target into installing them HIMSELF, and then his machine would be an open book. Keylogger would catch all his passwords (no need to get him to fess up then!), and the RAT allows such things as searching the hard drive and any encrypted containers open at the time, as well as snatching the passwords for the encryption. Heck, you can even turn on the camera and mic from across the internet and monitor them, do screencaps, the whole nine yards. It's just like sitting at his computer yourself, peeking over his shoulder.

So I've got to wonder now, if they had the heads-up through E-mule, WHY didn't they go that route, which would have been the easy way. It's not like they are unaware of such possibilities, although most of the government software I've seen for those purposes is inferior to the private sector stuff (unless the govt has upgraded in the last few years), they're ALL pretty readily available. I schooled a NC SBI agent on their care and handling sometime before 2004, so they're not anything new, by any means, nor are they exactly unknown.

had they done their homework, we would likely not be having this discussion on the constitutionality at all.

So WHY didn't they?

reply to post by SaturnFX


like i have already said i have no child porn on my pc and dont go on black internet to download this kind of #e

so i have nothing to hide

also i didnt know it was ATS that wanted to decrypt his files

GET A GRIP thou do protest to much

reply to post by maryhinge


Methinks thou dost trust too much.

I've never met a real live actual human being who didn't have SOMETHING to hide. Everyone has skeletons of some variety in their closets. Maybe not kiddie porn, but I guarantee that if you get dug deeply enough into, things will be turned up that you're not particularly proud of, and would prefer to have kept under wraps, illegal or not.

If you think you have nothing to hide, let me take a look at your computer. I bet by the time I get finished looking you find you have stuff to hide and are all shades of red in the face.

I've worked on enough of them to know the secrets people keep.

reply to post by nenothtu

dont tar me with your brush mate

reply to post by maryhinge


I didn't "tar" you at all. I simply pointed out that "having nothing to hide" is inhuman, or superhuman, or just plain something other than human.

Are you, perhaps, an alien of some sort? A deity?

It has to be something, because if you're human, you've got something to hide. You can take that to the bank. When people say they "have nothing to hide", it just means they think they have it buried deeply enough.

reply to post by nenothtu


no mate i told all my secrets to my family as part of my cure for my addictions to drugs and porn (lesbian porn) BTW im a man just for the record

im still battleing my addiction to diasepam and im getting there

maybe i do have things that i choose to forget but i dont remember them as i had chemical poisoning

that attacked my nervous system and gave me some memory lose

no hard feelings hey

reply to post by maryhinge


Nope, no hard feelings. I do think, however, that you should be more understanding than most for people's need for privacy, and the inherent violations of having strangers invade it.

Do I have things to hide? You betcha - there are things about me that no one other than my wife and extended family know. Do I employ encryption to hide stuff? Sure, but it's more of a "that's not your business" sort of thing than it is an "that's illegal" sort of thing. My main point here is that just because you don't particularly want strangers poking around in your private effects does not automatically mean those effects are illegal.

Sometimes, legal though it is, it's just not anyone else's business, warrant or not. In the same vein, I've not given a key to my house to the police - they (or my boss, or the neighbor down the road) just haven't got any business rummaging around in my place. What if they found my collection of Spider man comics? How embarrassing THAT would be!

reply to post by nenothtu


I here you friend

thanks for the shake up(much needed at that)

The FBI "we know he has kiddie porn on that computer because we dealt it to him"

www.infowars.com...

people have probably seen this as its a few weeks old but still..doesnt sit right with me

reply to post by smyleegrl


I agree with you, BUT...

When the police can't open a lock, they call a locksmith.

If the police/judge/DA wants to decrypt those files, they need to hire a computer forensics expert. It will cost, but they have a warrant. The burden of proof falls on the prosecution, as does the requirement to gather evidence.

Originally posted by maryhinge
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

im not into child porn so i would have nothing to hide from the "govenment"

When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, for I was not Jewish.

When they came for the Roma, I said nothing, for I was not Roma.

When they came for the outcasts, I said nothing, for I was no outcast.

Now they come for me and there is no one left to say anything.

Things to consider.