Seek ye first, the Kingdom of Heaven

reply to post by sacgamer25


I find the "one and done" scenario a bit depressing personally.

To know that god gives you infinite new beginnings to experience his kingdom in different lights/perspectives is the ultimate gift. Knowing that you never experience anything other than life, and that you experience it for eternity, is a beautiful thing because life itself is beautiful.

To think that something so beautiful and awesome comes to an end does not seem fair when speaking of the power of god in my opinion.

Now that I think of it, being born again may very well be a term that has two meanings at the same time. When I first realized that life is eternal, and what my place within this universe truly, is I did see the world in a new perspective, so I take my previous statement about it not dealing with this life back.

Spiritual awakening is being born again in a sense, because I came out of the darkness and into a new light. Then again, I also know that it means to be born again literally as well.

I believe that Jesus was no different than you or I. He was the way because he showed me that the way was within me as well. Once you realize this and stop raising Jesus onto a pedestal, that is when you become a true child of God in my opinion, realizing that no one or nothing else is any more important than anything else. When you realize everything is equally important and beautiful, that is when you fall into love.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


The only difference is I believe Christ is truly the spirit of love. So it is not really Jesus who has been put on a pedestal but love. If one could be assured to discover the meaning of life in each life than yes life is beautiful.

I believe in the coming of the Messianic age in which all men learn to operate as one for the good of all. All men truly loving one another as the first priority.

Whatever reason you have to believe in love brings about love. All I hope for is to help those who don't believe in love. To provide them a path to see the light in the darkness. If the Messianic age is real than reincarnation would truly be loving.

We have convinced ourselves of a necessity that may not be a necessity. We have convinced ourselves that we must have duality, to understand both sides of the coin. I suggest it is quite possible to completely understand one side of the coin without ever truly seeing the other side.

Currently love resides on one side of the coin. Because we believe in duality Murder, Rape, Violence of all sorts resides on the other side. We believe the other side is necessary, meaning that someone has to commit these crimes. If we could stop believing sin is necessary maybe we would never truly see the other side of the coin. What if we always turned the other cheek to anger or anything else that is against love?

If we would simply stop eating from the tree of knowledge (sin) maybe we would simply learn one side of the coin completely and God would simply remove the other side all together. This is what I believe is possible in this life.

And Jesus was talking about the birth of the spiritual knowledge that comes from within when he was speaking to Nicodemus. This is born again, a spiritual birth that can only come from within, where God resides, Heaven.

reply to post by Joecroft

I actually believe that there are an infinite number of realms/dwelling places, which make up Gods Kingdom…

I came to a conclusion about that a while back (like 2 months ago) after doing a study on 2 Corinthians 5 where Paul talks about a tent folding up.
It used to be widely understood in a sense that is talking about when you die, with an analogy being made of your physical body being your "earthly tent".
What I found out is that Paul meant what do you do with this Old Testament type system, like the temple sacrifices, once that has been show as being obsolete, using "tent" as an allusion to the tabernacle of the wilderness.
This wasn't this sudden flash of insight but it sort of came that way to me through reading various commentaries on that issue in the New Testament.
What would be a sudden flash of insight would be all of a sudden seeing how this enigmatic statement by Jesus could be understood. Applying the same analogy, with the Jerusalem temple being one big congregation, then what comes about in the kingdom is a multitude of congregations, that make up one big spiritual church.
And that also goes along with my other theory that the Gospels were written to put Paul's teachings into the mouth of Jesus.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Where do you get the biographical info on Jesus from?

Jesus of Nazareth was a rebel leader, not the Son of God. He was an Essene

Rebel against what exactly?

I've heard people claim that he was an Essene. What exactly are the signature behaviors and speech patterns that would indicate he was Essene? Or do you have their membership roster somewhere?

Paul called him the Greek 'Christos'

Can you tell me please what is meant by Greek Christos. I really want to know because I certainly don't regard Jesus to be a Jewish Messiah according to the scriptures. If Christos means something other than Greek translation for Messiah, I'd really really like to know what that is.

The Church of Paul was founded upon deception, powermongering and

Can you point out the differences between Paul's Church and the many Ebionite churches that existed before him? Because from my point of view they seem almost identical.

reply to post by jmdewey60

And that also goes along with my other theory that the Gospels were written to put Paul's teachings into the mouth of Jesus.

Did I read that wrong?

Could you explain this theory?

reply to post by Akragon


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Paul never even quotes Jesus but once.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Sacgamer
When Jesus said you must be born again of water and spirit, he is talking about two different times in one's life.

Originally posted by Joecroft
“Two different times in ones life”…

Can you explain…?

Originally posted by Sacgamer
Born of water, born in the natural way, the mothers water breaks.

Yeah…I guess that’s the standard interpretation…Although the Spirit of God has similarities to water, as described in John 7.38…And also in the OT, the Spirit is described as flowing like water and wind.

When Jesus says we need to be “born again of Water and Spirit”…I believe that the water aspect, is an attribute of the Spirit itself. The Water and Spirit are all part of the 2nd birth, i.e. the “Born Again” experience IMO.

Originally posted by Sacgamer
Yes he does break down the defenses step by step. When you learn to realize this it does become a little easier because you start to look for the answer immediately. And when you are ready you find it. I look back at the journey and am amazed the care he took and continues to take in teaching me. Quite literally one small step at a time.

Except for the initial shock of confusion, so that you know for certain. LOL

lol

Hardest part is learning to let go…There’s a great scene in the Movie Blade, where he’s talking to a girl, who’s just been bitten by a vamp…He say’s to her “Forget what you think you know…”

I believe this is what Jesus means when he says, we must come like a child, into the Kingdom. We have to drop what we think we know, humble ourselves, and allow the Father, the one true teacher, too guide and teach us.


- JC

reply to post by pthena

Originally posted by pthena
There was a very old view of death involving hades as a dumping ground for shades of the dead (underworld). Jesus flipped that over so the souls go to heaven. But some people still think in terms of a holding cave nicked into heaven, (isolation bubble, hades in the air instead of in the ground) where souls just sit there age after age after age awaiting some resurrection.

That's a total waste of humanity to have them sitting doing nothing. What Jesus seems to offer is a living kingdom, wherein no human spirit is wasted in non-utility, but rather, still active in the kingdom.

Yes, Jesus wants us to have life to the full, and have it abundantly. My personal take on this is that once, we become united with God through this spiritual resurrection then and only then, can we partake in higher Heavenly kingdoms i.e. non Fallen worlds, where people respect God, love, and life etc…. Can’t just let anyone in there, so they have to come back to learn spiritual lessons. Earth being a fallen world, could be classified as a kind of Hell. Although having said that, I do believe there are other realms that are far worse, where entities have completely rejected God, and have therefore become cut off.

I kind of see Entities living on Earth similar to the Story of the Prodigal Son. In that God allows spirits to be free, out of love, and when they become ready to become “born again”, that is the way they return home, to the Father, and enter the Kingdom.


- JC

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
Hi Joe, how have you been?

I’m pretty good thanks…

How about yourself…have you encountered any gaseous flaming clouds of fire recently lol

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
Behind all of this is pagan mythology; I can think one specifically, Mithras (and there are so many others).

Aha…The classic invoking of the Mithras Myth (or should I say Mythras lol)
Mithras was probably based on someone witnessing the spirit of Mithras after his death, and thus the Mythras was born.

Jesus having a spiritual body is also hinted towards, in his meeting with Mary outside his empty tomb. My personal take is that Jesus spiritual body was later transformed into a resurrected body, on his return to the Father.

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
The KINGDOM is within you and discovering that relationship with God (it exists) or his twin Intellegent design. Jesus of Nazareth was a rebel leader, not the Son of God.

Totally agree, the Kingdom is within. But I believe the Spirit of the living God spoke through Jesus, which is how that relationship you’re talking about, becomes a reality.

As for Jesus being “The Son of God”; the Unrantia Book confirms this…the New Testament confirms it, as do certain passages in the Old Testament IMO, and barring all that, there were/are certain Gnostic believers and texts which believed/confirm that Jesus is the Son of God!

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
He was an Essene and would cringe today being proclaimed as what thousands upon millions of Churches today defend their being foundation upon.

Yes, again I agree, He was most likely an Essene. But remember, the Essenes kept the same Old Testament books, as the Pharisees and Sadducees, (with exception of a few additional books) although I think they had a different understanding, as to what came from God and what came from men.

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
He was not crucified on a cross, but on a T form; FIRST BIG LIE.

Some Scholars even suggest He was crucified on a tree, which was a common practice in Roman times…

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
The Church of Paul was founded upon deception, powermongering and (he should have intuited it the hundreds of years of eventual future landgrabs, murder and corruption).

I think the early Roman Church was founded on miss-understandings of the original Gnostic Christian texts. I also think that Paul was mostly likely a Gnostic Christian, who’s writings were edited by the early Roman Church. Not everything that is attributed to Paul is actually Paul the apostles words IMO. I do however think that Paul was a genuine believer in Jesus, in one form or another, and that he was there on the day of Pentecost.

Many mistakes were made by the Roman church, of that there is no doubt, but power corrupts, no matter who’s hands you put it into.


- JC

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
Hi Joe, how have you been?

Joecroft
I’m pretty good thanks…How about yourself…have you encountered any gaseous flaming clouds of fire recently lol. Aha…The classic invoking of the Mithras Myth (or should I say Mythras lol)
Mithras was probably based on someone witnessing the spirit of Mithras after his death, and thus the Mythras was born. Jesus having a spiritual body is also hinted towards, in his meeting with Mary outside his empty tomb. My personal take is that Jesus spiritual body was later transformed into a resurrected body, on his return to the Father.

I have, the flamethrowers I put out with marshmallows on very long sticks burn them alive and are delicious candy coated. I had to bring up Mithras, I have been studying pagan things, drawing the tick tack toe dot to dot between so many theological conventional thoughtform. What makes sense, does it have to is this just a puzzle we labor over and the final truth is one of an epiphany entirely personalized. I do like the idea floating about that the babtism of the human was original in Marys birth of Jesus (breaking of the water from her womb). Jesus spiritual body was the primer for us to realize the same thing would happen to ourselves (teaching point).

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
The KINGDOM is within you and discovering that relationship with God (it exists) or his twin Intellegent design. Jesus of Nazareth was a rebel leader, not the Son of God.

Joecroft
Totally agree, the Kingdom is within. But I believe the Spirit of the living God spoke through Jesus, which is how that relationship you’re talking about, becomes a reality.
As for Jesus being “The Son of God”; the Unrantia Book confirms this…the New Testament confirms it, as do certain passages in the Old Testament IMO, and barring all that, there were/are certain Gnostic believers and texts which believed/confirm that Jesus is the Son of God!

The thing unsaid is the fact we are all Sons and Daughters of God. He was a teacher, a Rabbi that was simply trying to tell us this; yes a nine dimensional being but we have that potencial to be him as well. The entire point of his ministry was not to make a laddered structure of hierarchy resulting in power grabs. We are all part and parcel of God divided from itself to experience itself.

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
He was an Essene and would cringe today being proclaimed as what thousands upon millions of Churches today defend their being foundation upon.

Joecroft
Yes, again I agree, He was most likely an Essene. But remember, the Essenes kept the same Old Testament books, as the Pharisees and Sadducees, (with exception of a few additional books) although I think they had a different understanding, as to what came from God and what came from men.

They may have but they had other more interesting ways. There was the invention of the Quabala, numbers they had help and not of this dimension, they used magic to light there homes, these would be quartz crystals that held power; they were living in obscurity forced isolation because they had higher knowledge the Saducee and Pharacee did not, their God was Not the Hebrew Yahweh.

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
He was not crucified on a cross, but on a T form; FIRST BIG LIE.

Joecroft
Some Scholars even suggest He was crucified on a tree, which was a common practice in Roman times…
I think the early Roman Church was founded on miss-understandings of the original Gnostic Christian texts. I also think that Paul was mostly likely a Gnostic Christian, who’s writings were edited by the early Roman Church. Not everything that is attributed to Paul is actually Paul the apostles words IMO. I do however think that Paul was a genuine believer in Jesus, in one form or another, and that he was there on the day of Pentecost.
Many mistakes were made by the Roman church, of that there is no doubt, but power corrupts, no matter who’s hands you put it into.

There were no trees in those lands other than the Olive or Asp, Lebonon cedar? Those "Ts" were imported and used again and again. I think the RC was afraid of the Gnostic Texts and did everything they could to hide/quell them (oops they show up in 1948 in clay jars hidden in Qumran) The Templars as decendents of the Essenes were murdered in France fled to Scotland and became "freemasons' . Paul was paid well for his new or baffling interpretation of the times of Jesus, Jesus was never known as the 'greek word Christ' meaning "messiah" until Paul and his handiwork misguided and to my mind torpedoed the message. But, hey its here and strong as ever.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Pardon my interruption here... but I couldn't resist...

Technically Jesus wasn't nailed to a cross or a "T form"... The correct translation is "stake"

Meaning he was Nailed to a Pole... hands over head...

Again sorry for my intrusion... things like this make me twitch... lol

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by vethumanbeing

Where do you get the biographical info on Jesus from?

Jesus of Nazareth was a rebel leader, not the Son of God. He was an Essene

Rebel against what exactly? I've heard people claim that he was an Essene. What exactly are the signature behaviors and speech patterns that would indicate he was Essene? Or do you have their membership roster somewhere?

The biographical information comes directly from him. Youd have to hear him speak to you, and I questioned this the accent. He said it was a combination of 3 to get to the English I would understand. Jesus was rebelling against the ancient traditions of the (women subjegations) the Pharasee purported, oral tradition (the only problem he had with the Sadducee was that they were wealthy moneychangers (greedy) and in bed with the Romans). The years he spent after age 13 were spent in Qumran; until he reached 19 and joined his GodFather protector, Joseph of Aramatheia, a wealthy Sadducee ship owner; a major transporter of metals (tin) trade. They voyaged from his age 19 until he was 30 (the disapearance of Jesus explained) to very far regions including what is now known as Great Britian, the orient. Why was Joseph so interested in this child, and paid for his education in Egypt, (Alexandria) where he learned his Greek? I havent bothered to ask.

pthena
Can you tell me please what is meant by Greek Christos. I really want to know because I certainly don't regard Jesus to be a Jewish Messiah according to the scriptures. If Christos means something other than Greek translation for Messiah, I'd really really like to know what that is.

The Church of Paul was founded upon deception, powermongering and

Can you point out the differences between Paul's Church and the many Ebionite churches that existed before him? Because from my point of view they seem almost identical.

The Greek word Christos means Messiah. Jesus was never the messiah for the Hebrew Tribes, that was already accomplished with Moses. There is no other translation. No Pauls church is flawed, and as a foundation for all "Christian based Theosophy" left itself open to every and all kinds of corruption.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Did you just say you spoke to Jesus personally?

Theres nothing that confirms the missing years of Jesus... I mean there are theories... but they are just that...

The life of Issa

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Pardon my interruption here... but I couldn't resist...
Technically Jesus wasn't nailed to a cross or a "T form"... The correct translation is "stake"
Meaning he was Nailed to a Pole... hands over head...
Again sorry for my intrusion... things like this make me twitch... lol

Glad you caught my misnomer/hiccup; my only reference for REAL AND TRUE crucifixion scenearios; is "Sparticus" and Movies especially of the 1960 era with Kirk Douglas starring ARE REAL. Golgotha/Calvary on the other hand; Jesus was crucified on a Merkaba Vehicle, (Star of David) construction, wood; it can activate itself Jesus rose right from the spin of the thing (no need for an internment or messiness that might ensue).

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Pardon my interruption here... but I couldn't resist...
Technically Jesus wasn't nailed to a cross or a "T form"... The correct translation is "stake"
Meaning he was Nailed to a Pole... hands over head...
Again sorry for my intrusion... things like this make me twitch... lol

Glad you caught my misnomer/hiccup; my only reference for REAL AND TRUE crucifixion scenearios; is "Sparticus" and Movies especially of the 1960 era with Kirk Douglas starring ARE REAL. Golgotha/Calvary on the other hand; Jesus was crucified on a Merkaba Vehicle, (Star of David) construction, wood; it can activate itself Jesus rose right from the spin of the thing (no need for an internment or messiness that might ensue).

There is actual proof now that he was not crucified as the Christians want to believe...

They found a heel bone of someone who was crucified around that time...

cojs.org...

The nail is through the side of the heel... meaning this person was nailed to a "stake" or pole...

Heels on the sides at the bottom of the pole... Nail went through the side of the Heel just below the ankle...

Hands were over the persons head... Exactly how the bible tells it....

They nailed him to a "stake"... which is a vertical pole.... NOT a cross...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Did you just say you spoke to Jesus personally?
Theres nothing that confirms the missing years of Jesus... I mean there are theories... but they are just that...
The life of Issa

Yes I did in April of last year, I had some questions and as I am able to make the phone calls and get the right connections (not through the NSA or Verizon) spoke to him. I write these down and if your interested Il post the conversation word for word. This is the point of ATS?, expose the NSA (they cant hear mind to mind transmissions). Im serious, Jesus is a reluctant hero. You should hear what Lucifer has to say about all of this.

It had to be said 3 times invisibly.

did not need to be said twice

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Why don't you make a thread on this subject... I'd be interested in reading it...

Or just post the link if you already have...

reply to post by vethumanbeing

They voyaged from his age 19 until he was 30 (the disapearance of Jesus explained) to very far regions including what is now known as Great Britian, the orient. Why was Joseph so interested in this child, and paid for his education in Egypt, (Alexandria) where he learned his Greek? I havent bothered to ask.

So his experience of the World and different people was not limited to Palestinian Aramaic as the propagandists have decided is official version. And I think he may have been familiar with the teachings of Philo if not the man himself. These are just opinions of mine.

So what problem did he have with the Romans? He must have seen them just about everywhere he went?