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Seek ye first, the Kingdom of Heaven

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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Show me one teaching of Yahweh that parallels that of Buddha and maybe you'll have a point. Buddha taught against violence, Yahweh ordered it.

Whether Yahweh knew it would happen or not doesn't matter, the fact still remains that he told the Hebrews to kill in his name. If he didn't want them to kill, he could have easily told them not to, but he did tell them to. Buddha never said to kill anyone.

Do grape seeds not form new vines? So what is the point of fruit if it does not end up producing more vines, thus more fruit?


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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


What do you mean? Kill what before it multiplies?


Kill the idea form of slavery before it infects other galaxies/universes.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


God is the only one who plants the seed, so he is the only one who can grow a new vine. In the bible Jesus Christ is the vine, the only begotten son, our lord, our king, our teacher.



If anyone wants to understand the OT they will have to stop judging it. As long as you sit in judgment of the OT, you will never find Christ within its pages. But even he said Moses and the prophets wrote about him. I suggest you listen to the one who brought you into the kingdom "within", and let go of your judgment against the OT that speaks of him and predicts his coming and his purpose.

Here is a list of OT prophecies fulfilled by Christ. Within this list you will find many reference to what type of person the Christ was supposed to be, and what was supposed to be accomplished through his life. So yes Buddha could have understood this list and been looking forward to the messianic age himself.

www.clarion-call.org...

And here is the Messiah the Jews were waiting for. If you can accept that Jesus was there Messiah, then you can understand how he was the Messiah and is the Messiah to come. Who was and is and is to come.

www.beingjewish.com...

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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Show one teaching of Yahweh that aligns with what Buddha taught and you may have a case for Buddha getting his knowledge from the OT. Even if you find one, that wouldn't be enough, so find more than one actually, find 5 or 6.

Buddha was just as much of a vine as Jesus was, who are you to say that God didn't plant the seed of Buddha?

Preconceived notions everywhere. Why not take your own advice and learn how to drop everything religion has taught you? To think that a book that has gone through so many powerful and corrupt hands throughout history is still the infallible word of god is the height of ignorance. ANY book, not just the bible.

As I said, substantiate your claims that Buddha learned all that he taught from the OT. Why would Buddha teach against any type of killing when there is so much of it in the OT?

Let go of your preconceived notions. The fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies could have easily been fabricated and inserted into the NT, especially since the first gospel wasn't written until well after 20 years after Jesus' death.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Let go of your preconceived notions. The fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies could have easily been fabricated and inserted into the NT, especially since the first gospel wasn't written until well after 20 years after Jesus' death.


Preconceived, Who preconceived them prior to me. There are only a handful of people on ATS that agree with me, no one I know except my immediate family agrees with me. I have had Christians pray that Satan leave me, while I was standing there talking to them, my friends for over 2 years.

If anyone has preconceived notions it is you my friend. You cannot find what I say in church, in the book store, and you can't Google it. How can that be preconceived. I didn't even understand most of it until after I received the Holy Spirit. You can look back to my first posts on here and see that the first Christian post I posted leans towards universalism.

That was the wisdom I received when I believed that Christ could free me from being a sinner. How can any of this be "Preconceived" as you suggest? If it is preconceived, who original perceived it, the only one that can be accused of this is Christ himself, since I perceived none of this until I was "born again".

11/13/2011 Universalism www.abovetopsecret.com...

4/1/2012 my view on the Anti Christ www.abovetopsecret.com...

That was the wisdom I received when I believed that Christ could free me from being a sinner. How can any of this be "Preconceived" as you suggest? If it is preconceived, who original perceived it, the only one that can be accused of this is Christ himself, since I perceived none of this until I was "born again".

If I had conceived the thoughts myself, I would not be guilty and therefore I would not need Christ's death to teach me. But I did not conceive these thoughts myself as you suggest, this along with matching my "born again" testimony with others, confirms that although I did not conceive these thoughts they are the same as others who share the "same spirit".
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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


You believe in a world of chance, so there is a chance that the bible could be corrupted.

I live in a world where God rules my life through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit himself testifies that God loves us. Since I found the message in the son of God who is Jesus Christ, I only feel it fitting to believe that nothing was left to chance.

Today's modern bible is nearly identical to the transcripts found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The bible has not changed for 2000 years and we have the archeological evidence that PROVES this. This is not a debate; science proved that the original text written within 100 years after he died, before the RCC, are identical to today's manuscripts. God protected this book for 2000 years and he revealed this to us in 1946 when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The book about the son, was written by the power of the Holy Spirit, it is by the power of the Holy Spirit that the book has remained unchanged for 2000 years, it is by the power of the Holy Spirit that there is an estimated enough existing copies of the bible printed for all 7 billion to have their own copy.

The bible itself is a 2000 year old miracle, unchanged and printed enough for everyone to have one.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The church conceived the notion that the bible is infallible before you, and since they are supposedly god's mouthpiece, that is very convenient for them.

Did you believe the bible was infallible before you "dropped" what they taught you? If so, you have not dropped that notion, which is preconceived.

Have you ever thought that the bible is at all fallible in any way? If not, then you have preconceived notions.

I really don't want to turn this into an argument. I think you're an awesome person. I'm just sharing my thoughts, sorry if they come off as me attacking you.


You have yet to prove how Buddha got his teachings from the OT. If you can't prove he did, then you have yet to prove that Jesus is the only "vine".

Would you call a plot with one tomato plant a garden? If not, then why would you assume God is a gardener if he has only planted one vine? Do you think a gardener would win any kind of contest if he had only one plant in his garden? Highly unlikely.

You are limiting God's potential by believing he only has ONE vine that bears fruit.
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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Are Paul's epistles or any of the Gospels contained within the Dead Sea Scrolls? No, because nothing in the NT was found in them, only things from the OT era.

Your assumption that they somehow invalidate the possibility that the Gospels were refashioned to fit prophecy is baseless. The oldest surviving copies of New Testament literature are from 125 CE, almost 100 years after Jesus died, plenty of time for Rome to change the story around to fit prophecy.

I'm not suggesting the OT has been changed, I am saying that the NT was form-fitted to fit prophecy. They rewrote the story in certain areas to conform to the Messianic prophecies of the OT.

Have you ever heard of the Q-source? Look up "two-source hypothesis" to learn what it is. They could have easily used the Q-source as a base for their editing of the story.
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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
He says without him they could do nothing because they are the branches. The branches need the vine in order to bear fruit. That says nothing about Jesus being the only vine, nothing.


He’s says those things because it is the Father and Jesus who pour out the Holy Spirit…not us!



John 16:7
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.


Jesus is the one, who not only sends the Holy Spirit, but is the only one who has authority to do so. That’s why He’s the ONLY “true vine”, and is the reason why he’s says “apart from me you can do nothing”…

This doesn’t however mean that you can’t bear good fruit…because anyone who comes to know certain spiritual truths, and teachers others, is bearing good fruit IMO, even if they don’t know all truths…




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Do you really think Jesus is the ONLY vine in this entire garden (universe)? Would you call a plot with only one grapevine a garden? No, it's not a garden unless it has many vines.


I think your missing the point. Jesus and the Father created the entire universe, and everything in it!



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
What happens to the fruit? Does it wither away and disappear? Or does it sprout more vines? How does a gardener expect to grow a garden if he neglects the ability for other vines to grow? That fruit that the branches bear will eventually turn into other vines, otherwise the gardener isn't a very good one.


And your also getting too wrapped up in Jesus analogy, and are looking at it too literally. Jesus was simply making a spiritual analogy, when using those terms. Which means the following… Garden = The Father, Vine = Jesus, and Branches = Us.

What Jesus was really saying, is that everything stems from Himself, and the Father, (spiritually speaking) with the Father being greater than Him.

This is also why Jesus says, that no one comes to the Father, except through Him…etc


- JC



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The church conceived the notion that the bible is infallible before you, and since they are supposedly god's mouthpiece, that is very convenient for them.

Did you believe the bible was infallible before you "dropped" what they taught you? If so, you have not dropped that notion, which is preconceived.

Have you ever thought that the bible is at all fallible in any way? If not, then you have preconceived notions.

I really don't want to turn this into an argument. I think you're an awesome person. I'm just sharing my thoughts, sorry if they come off as me attacking you.


You have yet to prove how Buddha got his teachings from the OT. If you can't prove he did, then you have yet to prove that Jesus is the only "vine".

Would you call a plot with one tomato plant a garden? If not, then why would you assume God is a gardener if he has only planted one vine? Do you think a gardener would win any kind of contest if he had only one plant in his garden? Highly unlikely.

You are limiting God's potential by believing he only has ONE vine that bears fruit.
edit on 15-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


How am I limited by believing the Vine is the "Spirit of Love" of which I have full access too?

Buddha - www.buddhanet.net...


The Buddha appears in this world to teach us the Dharma and to radiate the light of wisdom and compassion, so that we may all live under this brightness and be benefitted in the following two regards:

1. Accomplishment in wholesome activities: What ever activity we perform, we need guidance. The warm light of Buddha-Dharma guides us to deliverance so that everyone may become happy and peaceful. All merits, and all large or minor activities, will be able to proceed to accomplishment under the illumination of the compassionate and wise lights of the Buddha.

2. Fullness of hope: Under the illumination of the light of wisdom and compassion, we have tremendous hope. Those who practise the Dharma will not easily give up and fear for failure because they have received the light of Buddha Dharma and have firm faith in a bright future.

Therefore, the causes of all problems in the world originate from ourselves. If everyone accepts the light from the Buddha, the light can also be transmitted to the others. When one has the right view, one can influence the others. This is how Buddha works for the salvation of the world. May I take this opportunity to wish everyone who listens to today’s talk about the "Dharma as the Light of Deliverance", to accept the light of wisdom and compassion of the Buddha, and to have an infinite bright future.


Buddha = Prophet, Dharma=Spirit, Spirit = light of wisdom

The OT


Genesis 1:3-5 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Psalm 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.
Psalm 119:130 The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.
Psalm 18:28 For it is you who light my lamp; the Lord my God lightens my darkness.
Psalm 104:2 Covering yourself with light as with a garment, stretching out the heavens like a tent.
Psalm 36:9 For with you is the fountain of life; in your light do we see light.

Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life,

Daniel 2:22 He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him.

Isaiah 8:20 To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.

Isaiah 9:2 The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined.

Isaiah 42:16 And I will lead the blind in a way that they do not know, in paths that they have not known I will guide them. I will turn the darkness before them into light, the rough places into level ground. These are the things I do, and I do not forsake them.

Isaiah 45:7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

Isaiah 60:2-3 For behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and thick darkness the peoples; but the Lord will arise upon you, and his glory will be seen upon you. And nations shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you.

Isaiah 60:20 Your sun shall no more go down, nor your moon withdraw itself; for the Lord will be your everlasting light, and your days of mourning shall be ended.

Job 24:12-13 From out of the city the dying groan, and the soul of the wounded cries for help; yet God charges no one with wrong. “There are those who rebel against the light, who are not acquainted with its ways, and do not stay in its paths.

Job 38:15 From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken.

Job 38:19-24 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light, and where is the place of darkness, that you may take it to its territory and that you may discern the paths to its home? You know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great! “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war? ...

Micah 7:8-10 Rejoice not over me, O my enemy; when I fall, I shall rise; when I sit in darkness, the Lord will be a light to me. I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me out to the light; I shall look upon his vindication. Then my enemy will see, and shame will cover her who said to me, “Where is the Lord your God?” My eyes will look upon her; now she will be trampled down like the mire of the streets.

1 Kings 11:36 Yet to his son I will give one tribe, that David my servant may always have a lamp before me in Jerusalem, the city where I have chosen to put my name.

Zechariah 14:6-7 On that day there shall be no light, cold, or frost. And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light.

Exodus 13:21 And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.

Jeremiah 13:16 Give glory to the Lord your God before he brings darkness, before your feet stumble on the twilight mountains, and while you look for light he turns it into gloom and makes it deep darkness.


Still don't believe it even possible that they were both talking about prophets, spirit, light, and the light is love?

Here is also where you will find Jesus in the OT since he is the light of the world.
edit on 15-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Why I decided the bible to be 100% accurate?

First - find a contradiction in the pages, researched every possible contradiction and found that none of the supposed contradiction were contradictions, except of course if you believe the church. There is only one known contradiction in the bible, that occurs in the OT. There is a list of people who returned to help rebuild the wall, the story is told twice and the lists don't match exactly. In one of the stories the list is one that is according to the prophet, the other appears to be a list made by someone unkonwn to the author. The Jews did not see this as an issue and neither do I. We both agree the list from the prophet is most likely the more accurate list.

Second - Evolution, Origins, Age of the Earth, you see this is where you know I didn't take any preconceived notions. When I started I was against God, but I wanted to see. Has science PROVEN the age of anything, or that evolution is possible.

The creation account in the bible, a 6000 year old earth, dinosaurs walking with man, a great flood. None of these things have been "PROVEN" false. There is actually real science that explains all of the phenomenon we see, how the world could be young, man drew pictures and wrote about dinosaurs, yet we don't believe knowledge of dinosaurs even existed until modern paleontology discovered and reconstructed their bones.

The age of anything more than a few thousand years old has been proven to be fallible. The age of the universe is a guess based on a guess. We have no way of knowing how far stars are away from us, we can only make assumptions. There are no life forms in transition, no fossils of a life form in transition, and we have been trying to make it happen for 200 years and still have not been able to make it happen. If we can't make it happen, how in the heck does anyone think it could happen by accident?

Third - What the heck is Paul talking about? Paul was worshiping the man, who saved his life, who he believes came in spirit to rescue him from killing his brothers. If you can understand that Paul himself saw Jesus as his Lord this too might help you understand the scriptures.

What does he really say? If you don't believe what Jesus said, which by the way you do believe the 4 gospels, than you are condemned. You do believe that Christ at least taught the truth about "enlightenment" so you agree with Paul. Anyone who does not believe the words of Christ is condemned, to not become "enlightened".

Do you see that Christians have condemned themselves because they have tried to interpret Paul instead of trying to understand him? I understand Paul as a person, which is why I can see that these letters are his testimony that Jesus Christ is the man who lead him to "enlightenment", That he was saved by "election", since he could not "see" the truth for himself.

He worshiped Christ Jesus for his sacrifice on the cross, since Paul was not saved by Jesus life, but rather by his death. If he was saved by the life of Christ, he would have converted prior to the crucifixion and resurrection. Paul needed the resurrection to believe as did I.

Paul was "enlightened" his words are esoteric, which when translated in bible speak means he spoke in tongues of heavenly things that the "un-enlightened" would never understand, thus protecting the truth from the ones who would seek to exploit it.

I am a young earth creationist; almost no Christian claims this, except the really radical ones. Only I am not like them either, because I am a Universalist. Everyone will be in heaven with me; I am only here to make this life better for others.


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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


How many people do you know that believe the following?

1. Jesus Christ is the light created in Geneses
2. Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit, who also likes the name "The Spirit of Love"

3. The father and son are 2 not 1, we can become like the son only.
4. Approximately 6000 year old earth
5. The creation story is 100% correct
6. When Adam was created he was male & female, until Eve was later taken out of Adam
7. God and Christ are both Male & Female since we were made in their images
8. The angels in heaven are both male and female and are not given in marriage
9. Angels are both male and female and not given in marriage, the angles never slept with women.

10. The Nephilim - the sons of God, of which I am one and the daughters of women wich is true about all women, some of there children are "Geniuses" Nephilim = Genius

11. God is the author of all things good and evil, as referenced in Job. God is the one who incited Satan against Job, not the other way around.

12. Satan is merely what the Jews believe - Satan is that what tempts us to go against our nature to love, something that comes from "within".

13. Hell - is the emotional state of mind for those who have not yet learned to listen to love and choose love over other emotions. Those who listen to "Satan" live in an emotional hell apart from love.

14. Paul - does not teach today's church and not one word is against Christ. It is possible that some of what he said was tradition and visions that he saw of a time that was much different from the time he was living in. It is also possible that even though we may see that a few of his traditions appear to be outdated, I believe their remains some purpose in those traditions.

15a. Homosexuality - I believe the concept of homosexuality is not explicitly covered in the original text, what is explicitly covered is "immoral sexual behavior, unnatural sexual behavior, sex without love, sex before marriage, adultery" The only verse that is an apparent contradiction to this is here.


Romans 1-26 For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.


Do you see these people were sinners who were inflamed with lust to go against their nature? These men and women were not born homosexuals they became homosexuals because God gave them over to their over sexual desires, just like in Sodom where the men had formed a rape party. I know many gay men, none of which have ever demonstrated that they would involve themselves in a rape party.

15b. Personally I agree that sex should only be between two people who plan on a lifetime loving partnership. I will leave the gender issues up to God.

16. Original Sin - The concept is not found in the bible. Adam was cursed as was Cain; both curses were washed away with the flood.

The only Curse that remains is "Women will Chase Adam who will Lord over them, attracted to the Alpha Male, and have labor pains". This is cleared up in the NT as husbands are instructed to serve their wives to break the curse, but labor pains remain.

17a. Sin - came into the world by Adam referring to the male/female Adam. Meaning that before they ate of the tree creation was unaware of sin. They committed the first sin, thus creation became aware of sin.

17b. As God told Cain he must learn to master his sin before he killed his brother, we must always "turn the other cheek to sin", even if it means we must give up our lives to avoid a sin against our brother.

17c. Losing control of one's emotions against love is sin. Purposely acting on any emotion that is against love is sin. If a man who knows the good he should do and does not do it this should also be considered sin.

17d. To love is to overcome sin. We are sons of God, who is love. God sent his firstborn son, who is the spirit of love, to come to us, so that we too may overcome sin and be like him.

18a. The Greeks had a better understanding of the coming Messiah than did the Jews, this would be the reason the NT is written in Greek.

18b. Plato wrote about the coming messiah in "The Cave", and himself became "enlightened" by understanding the coming Messiah. Greek philosophers were ready for Christ, which is why he was accepted so easily by them.

19. The Antichrist is the RCC and all of its daughters, Christianity, the one who appears like an angle of light
20. Most end time prophecy speaks about the RCC and the wars that have occurred since the inquisition.
21. The four kingdoms - Rome, Russia, Germany, USA (the divided nation, two party system)

22. We will soon enter into the messianic age, as predicted both in the bible and ancient astrology
23a. Heaven Can only be found "within" a man.
22b. Heaven - the emotional state of mind for those who find Joy in loving one another.
22c. Heaven, the place where we all end up, Universalism.


What did you just read that you believe was preconceived and who do you suggest conceived this notion prior to me?
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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


But a garden is not a garden unless it has more than one vine in it. To say god only has one vine he tends to is limiting his power in my opinion.

He must have more than one vine, otherwise his garden is a sorry excuse for a garden and he is a sorry excuse for a gardener. Why can't there be more than one vine in your opinion?



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Joecroft
 


But a garden is not a garden unless it has more than one vine in it. To say god only has one vine he tends to is limiting his power in my opinion.

He must have more than one vine, otherwise his garden is a sorry excuse for a garden and he is a sorry excuse for a gardener. Why can't there be more than one vine in your opinion?


There is only one root, God, therefore there is only one vine. Jesus is the one who you accepted as your teacher, his message does not come from anything written before him, except the OT that predicts him. If he is the one who brought the message to the world, and you believe him, why are you still so against him being a vine? Why do you "Need" to be the same as Christ?

Simply look at creation, you cannot explain it nor understand it, none of us can. Something much greater than us created this, so you have to put at least something ahead of yourself. Why not just accept that the one who teaches unconditional love and forgiveness is the son of God.

The father, The son, You. Why can't you accept this order, why do you need to be the same as Christ?
Read his words, you most certainly are not equal to him now, although he himself promised that if we had enough faith we could do the same things he did, because he is the spirit "within". He did heal the sick, he did perform miracles, and this is why his word is with us today.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So there are no contradictions in the bible, but there is? How does that make sense at all? A contradiction is a contradiction is a contradiction. If there is one there are bound to be others.

Take a look at Jesus' genealogies in Luke and Matthew, they are totally different. You'd think the infallible word of god wouldn't have such wildly different genealogies for its main player, but it does.

Take a look at Romans 3:28 and the whole section of James 2:14. Paul says faith apart (without) from works justifies man, while James says that faith without works is dead. Clear contradiction, yet you will continue to be blind to it.

You can apologize all day long about there not being contradictions, but that only brings your blind faith to the light. You will work your way around the facts all day long yet you will not ever see what you are really doing, which is justifying the unjustifiable. Again, cognitive dissonance.

Answer me this: have you ever believed the bible to be fallible in any way? Ever? Before or after you supposedly "dropped" everything the church ever taught you?



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Okay, you're starting to annoy me by blatantly misconstruing what I'm sating. WHEN DID I EVER SAY JESUS WAS NOT A VINE?! WHERE?! Stop putting words in my mouth! It's not very becoming of you.

Either you are completely ignoring what I am saying and creating your own context or you are just being extremely dense.

How can god be the gardener and root at the same time? Does a root water itself and tend itself? No, so either god is the gardener or the root. Which is it? Because Jesus said he was the gardener, not the root.

I think this will be my last reply because you are becoming more and more and more dense the more I reply to you. So take my questions as rhetorical if you want, because I do not intend on reading your responses because I know you will continue to ignore what I say, as you have already shown numerous times.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
But a garden is not a garden unless it has more than one vine in it. To say god only has one vine he tends to is limiting his power in my opinion.


But your getting too wrapped up in the analogy, in a literal way.

They reason Jesus refers to the Father as the Gardener, is because He created Jesus, i.e. planted the Vine etc…

And the reason why Jesus calls us branches, is because we were created through the Father and Jesus Himself…Everything that is in the vine stems from Jesus. But Jesus isn’t talking about literal plants and gardens…He means them in the Spiritual sense of the word.

This is why when you are truly in The Son, your are in the Vine (Jesus) and in turn, are also in the Father. Jesus is speaking of spiritual concepts not literal ones.



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
He must have more than one vine, otherwise his garden is a sorry excuse for a garden and he is a sorry excuse for a gardener. Why can't there be more than one vine in your opinion?


Because Jesus, is Co-creator with the Father. That’s why he’s the only true Vine, the first born of all creation, and The Son of God…

And like I have been saying in my other posts, there are MANY other verses which point exactly, to this same truth.

- JC



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Honestly... If you truely believe there are no contradictions in the bible... You haven't done any actual research on the bible aside from reading it... And blindly accepting what you read

Then again, perhaps you're just not looking hard enough...

There are abundant contradictions.... Geographical and logical errors... And soo much more

Sometimes you make me wonder my friend

:shk:
edit on 15-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


You are right we cannot continue to debate, because you are afraid of my religion. Both myself and Joecroft are telling you exactly what the bible says about Christ. We are as close to 100% accurate, we are two witnesses, telling you exactly what the bible says.

You don't have to agree with our religion, but you keep defending yours because you are afraid we are trying to convert you. If you are "Enlightened" it would be impossible for us to convert you.

Someday I pray that you will fully understand the beauty of religion. Currently you only see religion as negative, and thus you have created your own perfect religion.

I have also created my own perfect religion and Joecroft and I agree on all major points about what the bible says.

The bible is my religion, even if I went to outside sources, Gnostic texts, other religions, ATS, to help me understand the bible, I have always accepted that what I found outside of the bible had to match what one could read in the bible. This is the testimony of two witnesses; however I also refer to the bible as the first and always necessary testimony.

If you were not so afraid of my religion, because the religion of those who call themselves Christians, then I believe you could believe not what I say to be true, but that you could except that I represent the bible and the words it says with as much perfection as God has allowed me.

My understanding of what the bible says greatly exceeds yours. That is because the bible itself is my religion.
Your understanding of your concepts "religion" equally exceed my knowledge of what you understand to be true. I am not however afraid of your religion for I find all religion that comes from a man seeking the truth to be beautiful. And if a man shows me a better interpretation than the one I have, which must agree with the bible, than I will accept it and make it my own.

My recent revelation that the bible never clearly condemns homosexuality is proof that I am always willing to accept new concepts into my religion after considering the arguments, looking at the facts, and thinking about life and what the world has taught me. After this I reconsider the arguments to ensure that they don't go against scripture and if they don’t I pray. When I pray the Holy Spirit always finds a way to answer.

You think I have been trying to convert you, or make you change your mind and believe me. This is not what I have been trying to do. I believe myself and JoeCroft are merely trying to prove to you that we have a full understanding of the bible, and you are making claims about Christ that do not agree with the bible. We are two witness that are telling you the truth about the words in the bible.

Continune to believe what you and still let go of the fear of religion.
It is not religion you need to fear it is the religious ones who would say,

"God only loves you if you believe what I believe" - these are the ones to fear

I have already told you I am a Universalist, so I can't be the one saying that.
So I must merely be the one helping to show you what the bible actually says about Christ.



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