Seek ye first, the Kingdom of Heaven

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Of course not, but you could have possibly been another sentient creature that lives trillions of miles away, or you could have been a fish or something. I think the universe is too huge and diverse for me to have lived on this planet as a human before, but then again you never know. I don't think we are stuck on this planet, it just so happens to be where we are in this incarnation.

I wonder. I have had to remember myself as now a human without that experience; an entirely impossible goal I set out for myself. I believe I accomplished it A Miracle of comprehension and unique awareness of thyself. The universe is like all Southern Babtist church congregation members and I will never know each parishner, Oh wait I should have been ORAL Roberts. We arent stuck here for eternity, we are here in tandem to change the whole thing together all of us (not even knowing what we are accomplishing) like a dance of ideaforms, words that have immense power for anyone that reads and understands some of them, or all of those people that bought into the Crystal Cathedral (now bankrupt). I see organized religion as "Side Shows" for Carnival barking evangelicals.

edit on 14-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

We arent stuck here for eternity, we are here in tandem to change the whole thing together all of us (not even knowing what we are accomplishing) like a dance of ideaforms, words that have immense power for anyone that reads and understands some of them

Yes and beautiful it is. Sometimes you are difficult for me to follow.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

You should also see heaven without. The inner is the outer and the outer is the inner.

As above, so below. The world around us is a projection and reflection of our inner selves.

"As above, so below." I believe those words you quote are a prophecy of a time to come, but that is just my view.

In this way it is what is within us that projects to the world, whatever is within us will determine the condition of the world we live within. When we all find ourselves within ourselves, then we will see ourselves for who we truly are. Heaven and Earth are not one, not to say that earth won't become like heaven, but currently the prophecy is not been fulfilled.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

You should also see heaven without. The inner is the outer and the outer is the inner.
As above, so below. The world around us is a projection and reflection of our inner selves.

IT has to be this way otherwise no new creation happens, the good and evil co-exist. It must; its the only way. We create our world, we are responsible for all that occurs to us. We have only ourselves to blame or throw allocades to for failures and successes. God is not in this personal mix, will not help you or hurt you because at some point you will return on your knees and beg forgiveness. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by vethumanbeing


What about election, do you not think Pauls conversion by election is possible? Am I also a liar?

reply to post by sacgamer25


Earth may not be heaven, but the universe is. It is God's kingdom.

The reason Earth is no longer part of it (in a sense) is because of what we have turned it into. It is a slave planet where the slaves believe they are free. We are not free here, we only have the illusion of freedom.

It used to be Eden, a piece of heaven, but man has turned its back on its home, valuing profit over everything, even at the expense of our Mother Earth.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

You should also see heaven without. The inner is the outer and the outer is the inner.

As above, so below. The world around us is a projection and reflection of our inner selves.

There are many things that I have seen that are not a reflection of my inner self, but rather the inner self of others. Who is to blame for such encounters, I did not project them why did they happen to me? If this is your heaven then I will leave you to it. For me this is not my choice for eternal bliss or damnation, not that the latter is even possible.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Earth may not be heaven, but the universe is. It is God's kingdom.

The reason Earth is no longer part of it (in a sense) is because of what we have turned it into. It is a slave planet where the slaves believe they are free. We are not free here, we only have the illusion of freedom.

It used to be Eden, a piece of heaven, but man has turned its back on its home, valuing profit over everything, even at the expense of our Mother Earth.

You say man did this, but many of this was prophesied in the bible. So who did it if it was prophesied? Does prophesy assume that God knew the future and did nothing to stop Hitler's Genocide? If he knew it and prophesied about it, then he is guilty of it? However his wisdom being greater than mine I accept as his lesson to teach us about where our free will leads when we don't love one another. We must truly turn the other cheek every time or we are doomed to repeat this history lesson.

reply to post by sacgamer25


The same type of people who prophesied it are the same type of people who run the world today. They are self-fulfilling prophecy from thousands of years ago to keep us in the dark, to make us believe it is God's will so that no one will try to stop it.

Human affairs do not matter, what matters is the beauty of nature, the perfection of it all. The perfection of the outer world (minus what humans have done) is a reflection of our inner perfection. Even if man has ruined everything that does not mean everything isn't still perfect. What happens on this tiny planet does not define the universe as a whole. As a whole, the universe is perfection defined, if it weren't we wouldn't be here right now.

Where does the bible prophecy Hitler killing Jews? I haven't heard of that before.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by vethumanbeing

sacamer25
What about election, do you not think Pauls conversion by election is possible? Am I also a liar?

How can you be, (a liar) you are of the elect to become something other than you were and now ARE (by freewill). Saul gentrified his name, and so invented the Gentile nomenclature. Paul converted to (himself) believing in something his bloodline would have railed against. I suppose that is a form of bravery/heresy or of a uniquely (to HIM) bombastic clarity of purpose. I do not know as I have never met him nor has he shown up in my life to speak his mind; still waiting, but does it matter to anyone other than your own truths, those are the important things, it all individualized as you are of course a singular being trying to discover your importance and where you fit in the "ALL EVERYTHING" and if you might make a difference.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Earth may not be heaven, but the universe is. It is God's kingdom.
The reason Earth is no longer part of it (in a sense) is because of what we have turned it into. It is a slave planet where the slaves believe they are free. We are not free here, we only have the illusion of freedom.
It used to be Eden, a piece of heaven, but man has turned its back on its home, valuing profit over everything, even at the expense of our Mother Earth.

Yes, and Kill It Before It Multiplies.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


What do you mean? Kill what before it multiplies?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


When were the Jews scattered, so that they could come back?

reply to post by sacgamer25


At the same time Hitler was killing the Jews, Israel (a Jewish nation) was forcing its way into Palestine. Not really sure how they were scattered at the same time that they were joining together in Palestine.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I see the "true vine" statement to be true, though in a different way than you. If a branch bears good fruit, that fruit will have seeds which will eventually turn into other vines.

Well, it’s all very logical, but it doesn’t fit the verses. You see, I’m basing my understanding on a collective number of verses, which are all pointing in the same direction. Its even mentioned in the Gnostic texts, a few verses of which, you can find in this post , and
this one


The part of that verse your missing out, is where Jesus says “apart from me you can do nothing”…This is also the reason why Jesus says “unless I go, the Holy Spirit will not come”, and is the same reason why Jesus says in John 14:23 “we will come to them and make our home with them”, again He’s talking about the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus and The Father = The Holy Spirit

Many “New Agers” quote the following verse, “You will do greater things than these”… etc (which, btw is true!) But that’s where they stop in their understanding, and they build there own idea/beleifs, around that one snippet of the verse; without taking into account the next line…which is the following…

“…because I am going to the Father.”

Which is in turn, tied into those other verses I mentioned above.

It is the Father and Jesus who are above All, this is why when you receive the Holy Spirit, you will become born again, or born from above/God. Because it is God who does the pouring out.

You can theories these things in your mind, but they are actual real spiritual events, that can, and do take place in peoples lives.

Please understand, the few verses that I have outlined above, are just the tip of iceberg…there are tons more, which show the exact same truth.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


He says without him they could do nothing because they are the branches. The branches need the vine in order to bear fruit. That says nothing about Jesus being the only vine, nothing.

Do you really think Jesus is the ONLY vine in this entire garden (universe)? Would you call a plot with only one grapevine a garden? No, it's not a garden unless it has many vines.

What happens to the fruit? Does it wither away and disappear? Or does it sprout more vines? How does a gardener expect to grow a garden if he neglects the ability for other vines to grow? That fruit that the branches bear will eventually turn into other vines, otherwise the gardener isn't a very good one.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Who did you study to find "Enlightenment", Why does Plato's allegory of the Cave appear to predict an "Enlightened" man who would die to help others become "Enlightened", Why does Buddha use the
term "light", which is the same term used in Geneses to describe the Creation of the "Holy Spirit", who is Christ Jesus, the Spirit of Love?

Who do you know that has been "Enlightened" that does not at least agree with the Gospel of Christ?

Christ is the first man to ever teach that God, who should be seen as a father, unconditionally loves all men and has forgiven every transgression. Then he died on the cross to teach his brothers it was better to die in the hands of your brothers who cannot "see", than it is to rise against them, and allow their hate to consume you.

And finally he was resurrected to prove to his disciples that he indeed had the authority to promise unconditional love and forgiveness to all men. It is because of the resurrection that the Apostles received the strength they needed to preserve the message for you.

The message that "Enlightened" you originated from Jesus Christ. But yet you refuse him as the vine. How can you be the vine when you yourself must point a man to the words of Jesus Christ to teach him "enlightenment".

He is the teacher, your teacher; you really should be able to clearly see that Christ taught the simplest way to "enlightenment". "Turn the other Cheek", this is the essence of "Enlightenment", to believe that you can "turn the other cheek".

Today's Christians are gun owners who are willing to kill for their country. When they should listen to their Christ and "turn the other cheek", because it is better to die by the hands of your brother, than to shed his blood.

He who chooses love first always wins. Even in death the one who chooses love finds love, Heaven.

You admit that you came to "Enlightenment" through his message, and yet you still don't credit him as being the vine. Why not?
*****

Why not allow that God indeed sent his firstborn son, to tell the rest of his children how to find him? His first born son was created for the purpose of being the teacher, the king. Not because you cannot become like Christ, but because God created Christ for this purpose. Notice the "First Born" son is always consecrated to God at birth. Christ was the only son who was consecrated at birth.

He was the only son born "enlightened" because he himself is the "Spirit of Enlightenment", he is the only begotten son. Jesus was the only son born begotten "Enlightened", the rest of us must become "Enlightened", before we understand our role as sons. We must be adopted into the light, "Enlightened".


P.S. On a personal note understanding that Christ was born "enlightened" is very reasurring to my spirit that I can become like him. Since it took me 36 years to even strart the process, I am only 6000 years behind him in my education .

reply to post by sacgamer25


Please tell me where I said Jesus was not the vine? Because I clearly said that I agreed that he was the vine. All I disagree with is that he is the "ONLY" vine. He is not the only one, we can all be vines" and spread branches that bear fruit. What are you not understanding about that?

What of "Buddha Boy"? He didn't reach enlightenment through Jesus, he reached it through Buddha's teachings. Buddha was another of those vines, right along with Jesus. To say a garden can only consist of one vine completely disregards the ability of the gardener.

If God is the gardener, then what does that say about him only allowing one vine to grow? Or what does it say about him that he only has the ability to tend to one vine alone? Jesus was most definitely a vine, just not the ONLY one.

If you had actually read my post, or at least paid attention to it, you would have gotten that out of it.


Also, how do you know he was born enlightened? There are some 30 odd years of his life totally missing. How can you be so sure he didn't reach enlightenment after he was born? You are only assuming he was born enlightened because of preconceived notions.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Please tell me where I said Jesus was not the vine? Because I clearly said that I agreed that he was the vine. All I disagree with is that he is the "ONLY" vine. He is not the only one, we can all be vines" and spread branches that bear fruit. What are you not understanding about that?

What of "Little Buddha"? He didn't reach enlightenment through Jesus, he reached it through Buddha's teachings. Buddha was another of those vines, right along with Jesus. To say a garden can only consist of one vine completely disregards the ability of the gardener.

If God is the gardener, then what does that say about him only allowing one vine to grow? Or what does it say about him that he only has the ability to tend to one vine alone? Jesus was most definitely a vine, just not the ONLY one.

If you had actually read my post, or at least paid attention to it, you would have gotten that out of it.

You start with the vine, the vine produces branches, and the branches produce fruit. How can you become the vine, when you must always acknowledge who your teacher is. Your teacher must always remain the vine, even though you may become a sturdy branch that produces good fruit. Because if someone asks you, how do you produce good fruit, you must always say I learned from Christ. He will always be your vine. You did not come to the truth without him.

You know for certain that Buddha did not read the OT and find the messiah? Buddha uses the same exact terms to describe Christ as does the OT. The "light" and the "spirit". You believe this is only coincidence, I don't believe it a coincidence.

reply to post by Joecroft


To 3NL1GHT3N3D1:

JoeCroft and I agree completely, this is what the scripture says. We only have one point that it seems we disagree on. He thinks the Father and Son make up one instance of the Holy Spirit and I see them as separate.

Anyone who has experienced what we have, you would know that either of us could be right, because we both claim that there is only one point in a man's life that he becomes "born again" Enlightened. Flesh gives birth to flesh, and Spirit gives birth to Sprit.

I still think God is life itself so without him you could not have life. This is the reason that I believe you are born with God, but receive the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, at the time of your "Enlightenment". But JoeCroft believe that God and Jesus make up one spirit that come to you "Enlightenment", at the same time. But we both agree there is only one time you receive the "Holy Spirit", and it is undeniable when you have received it.

Allowing Christ to remain as the vine, a special spirit sent directly from God to help us does not go against any of the other things that you believe. He is your teacher, so in your testimony, should you not also consider yourself a branch that bares good fruit while teaching that Christ is your vine?

JoeCroft, from my daughter who is 8. a new addition to my understanding.

I was talking to my daughter the other day and I said where are God and Jesus, she said inside me.
I asked her why doesn't everyone listen to them, she said they don't know how.
I asked why don't they know how, she said God says they are not ready.

Notice the child said God and Jesus are "in" all men. The dwelling place of "Heaven is within" all men.

Therefore I believe the child is correct. We are born with God and Jesus; they are in "Heaven within". It is not until we knock, that we enter. To be "Enlightened" is to find heaven within, something that was previously there from birth, but one that we could not spiritually enter.

The Holy Spirit is sent from Heaven at the same time your spirit is allowed into heaven.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


There are several witness to the fact that Jesus was without sin. If he was not "Enlightened" from birth this would be impossible.

Luke 23, 39..43: And one of the evil-doers on the cross, with bitter feeling, said to him, Are you not the Christ? Get yourself and us out of this. But the other, protesting, said, Have you no fear of God? for you have a part in the same punishment, and with reason; for we have the right reward of our acts, but this man has "DONE NOTHING WRONG". And he said, Jesus, keep me in mind when you come in your kingdom. And he said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you will be with me in Paradise.

1 Peter 2:22 Who "did NO sin", "neither was guile found in his mouth".

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and "in him is no
sin".

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, "who knew not sin"; that
we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the
feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, "yet without sin".

Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, even
thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Notice that he was anointed with the oil of gladness above his fellow brothers. Born "Enlightened", consecrated to God from birth.