It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Seek ye first, the Kingdom of Heaven

page: 13
6
<< 10  11  12    14  15  16 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 09:56 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


We are only a part of the I Am just as Jesus was.


John 14
28 "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.


Jesus was no different from you or me, his teaching was that we are all One with the Father, but the Father is greater than just the one, a.k.a. any individual including Jesus.

I Am, you Are, everyone Is. This was Jesus' message, that we are all God in the flesh just as he was.




posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 10:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 

I thought the snow thing was your department lol



Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
I dont remember past lives as I havent had any, I am fresh and pure as the driven snow.
- JC


It is my department and You are Paying Attention.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 10:15 PM
link   
Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



Joecroft
Jesus would have been speaking to the Jewish leaders in either Aramaic or Hebrew; only much later would his words have been translated into the Greek language documents.


Speaking is the key, Oral Tradition the Pharasee rejected everything about him why? He wasnt preaching about his own God Dome, or was he to their eyes or interpretation. Why did Herod allow John to be beheaded at the whimsey of his concubine Salome? What were they afraid of? The Romans, you realize this was not about civil disobedience, what was the threat..I see it as more an entertainment value (by the Romans and participating Jewish Leaders) as though starvation and taxation could be temporarily overlooked for a week or two to quell a potencial uprising. There were not enough people living in that area to fund or partake physically in such an undertaking. None of it makes sense.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 10:28 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


You may not remember your past lives, but you have had them. I don't remember my past lives but I know I had them. We are all born "fresh as snow" when we reincarnate, that's the point.



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 10:45 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
We are only a part of the I Am just as Jesus was.


Yes Jesus is a part of the I Am/Father, just like us, but He is also more than that…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
John 14
28 "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Jesus was no different from you or me, his teaching was that we are all One with the Father, but the Father is greater than just the one, a.k.a. any individual including Jesus.





John 17:20-21
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.




John 17:25-26
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”




John 16:7
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.




John 14:20-21
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”




John 14-23
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them



- JC



posted on Jun, 13 2013 @ 10:59 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


I fail to see how any of those verses say he is anything greater than us.

He even said that "he would be in us and us in him". If that doesn't prove that we are equal to him then I don't know what will. That statement means that he is putting himself on an equal playing field with us.

If he is a piece of the Father/I Am just like us... then he is just like us. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that. You implied that Jesus was fully the Father/I Am in your previous post, now you are saying he is only a part of it.

What gives here?



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 01:13 AM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


I believe that the Greek philosophers had a better understanding of the OT than did the Pharisees and Sadducees. They understood that the messiah was coming to "enlighten" man and even sacrifice his life for "enlightenment" of others. They could see that the OT was predicting a time of total enlightenment, they believed in the possibility of the messianic age.

I believe Men like Plato foresaw this. The Allegory of the Cave and the three separate classes came from understanding the relationship between Father, Son and Light which is love. This is the relationship that binds the three together and this message can be found in the Prophets of the OT.

The Greek philosophers likely understood the OT and became "enlightened" merely by understanding the message of the coming messiah. They saw the messiah in thought and believed in him before he came.

A purely philosophical mind who can withhold judging God can find the path to "enlightenment" within the scripture that speaks about the spirit "within" Moses and the Prophets. I believe this is where Buddha and Plato may have received the original inspiration and why Buddha called it the light. He simply could see past their religion and realized that they were instructed to love one another.

This would be why the Greeks accepted the "Messiah" so easily. They were waiting for him and even wrote about him. So when he came and they heard his words and of the miracles he was performing they were absolutely certain. They understood the OT better than the Jews, this is what I contend.

This is what I have come to believe is the reason why the manuscripts were written in Greek, by Greek philosophers who were intending to preserve the message. Since it was given to them they were obviously the ones who were given the truth. Since they understood the words that lead to "enlightenment", that agreed with their own "enlightenment", they knew that he was the Christ.



edit on 14-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 07:51 AM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I fail to see how any of those verses say he is anything greater than us.


Give it time…lol



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
He even said that "he would be in us and us in him". If that doesn't prove that we are equal to him then I don't know what will. That statement means that he is putting himself on an equal playing field with us.


The "he would be in us and us in him" verse, is talking about the receiving of The Holy Spirit, and Jesus clearly states (in those verses I highlighted in my previous post), that He is a partaker, in us receiving it.




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
If he is a piece of the Father/I Am just like us... then he is just like us.


That’s only one aspect that makes him like us, but He is greater than us…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I'm not sure what you don't understand about that. You implied that Jesus was fully the Father/I Am in your previous post,


Which part of my posts, did I say that Jesus was fully the Father…???

Show me my post where I implied such a thing…???

I only believe that we are all, only a part of the Father, and are connected to Him etc…

I also believe there is an order to created beings, and that Jesus is the first created being by the Father, and that He (Jesus) is Co-Creator with the Father from the very beginning…Which is exactly what I said to you, in my first reply. Which can in no way! Imply, that I believe that Jesus is fully the Father…

So same question back at ya…

What gives here…



- JC


edit on 14-6-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 09:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Joecroft
 


I fail to see how any of those verses say he is anything greater than us.

He even said that "he would be in us and us in him". If that doesn't prove that we are equal to him then I don't know what will. That statement means that he is putting himself on an equal playing field with us.

If he is a piece of the Father/I Am just like us... then he is just like us. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that. You implied that Jesus was fully the Father/I Am in your previous post, now you are saying he is only a part of it.

What gives here?


Yes and no.

Jesus said it was enough for us to be "like him". I suggest that Jesus was the firstborn son and he was with the father at first, learning through creation. By the time he came to us in the flesh he had already spent 4000 years with the father according to scripture. So the 4000 year lesson taught him how to overcome sin. So as a man he himself never sinned, for this is the purpose he was created. To teach us how to love one another. Those who would believe in him and become a student of his, would receive his spirit, a gift from the father.

You learn how to control your emotions directly from the one who was without sin and defeated death, this fills you with the promise that you are "like him", like he suggested. To be born of water and spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit.

The Kingdome of heaven is like a mustard seed. It is the smallest seed of all the garden plants but grows into a beautiful tree that other spirits may find rest on, as they perch on the branches of the sturdy mustard tree.

The spirit of love is like a seed that remains in a man's heart from birth. The man knows the seed/sprit of love is within him but somehow he is unable to access its power, cause it to grow. When one accepts the teaching of Christ living water causes the seed to grow.

When the living water is added to the seed, love grows from "within", and the living water gives birth to spirit, whose seed was planted before birth, but waiting patiently for you to seek the water necessary for the seed to come to life.

When the tree is full grown, than we will be "enlightened" like Christ so that others may find rest in our branches, just as we found rest in his. But to be sure, there is an order to things. Christ is your lord, because he is the one that brought you into "the kingdom of heaven within", and for that he is deserving of his place as king and ruler of your life. The "spirit of love", is your king, even though you have not accepted that Christ is the "spirit of love", the "living water", and the cause for your seed to grow.


edit on 14-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 09:39 AM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


You implied that was fully the I Am, sorry about that.

You quoted where he said before Abraham, I Am, implying you thought that he was the I Am and no one else. There is no individual first born, we are all the first born and all co-creators with the Father.

We create the world around us with our brains, meaning we are "co-creators". The Father is just all conscious beings lumped together, nothing more nothing less. Jesus was only part of the Father, just as we are and him being the "I Am" is the same as me being the "I Am", him being the "first born" is the same as me being the "first born".

You say that Jesus is just like us but he is something more. How are the two compatible? If he is just like us then he is just like us.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 12:39 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
You implied that was fully the I Am, sorry about that.


Actually, no, I didn’t, but it’s completely understandable why you would have thought that…

I will explain my position more clearly below…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
You quoted where he said before Abraham, I Am, implying you thought that he was the I Am and no one else. There is no individual first born, we are all the first born and all co-creators with the Father.


When Jesus said before Abraham was “I Am”, I don’t think this means the standard Christian interpretation, in that Jesus was saying He was God the Father. So it’s understandable, why you would have thought I meant it that way etc…

You see, I believe that when Jesus said those words, He meant that He was the first born of all creation, i.e. that He came before anyone else, but not before the Father. Which incidentally, is completely in alignment with the rest of my other posts to you, and with Vethumanbeing…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
We create the world around us with our brains, meaning we are "co-creators". The Father is just all conscious beings lumped together, nothing more nothing less. Jesus was only part of the Father, just as we are and him being the "I Am" is the same as me being the "I Am", him being the "first born" is the same as me being the "first born".

You say that Jesus is just like us but he is something more. How are the two compatible? If he is just like us then he is just like us.


This is just the thing though, we are like Jesus, in that we come from the Father, but I believe there is a structure and an order to creation. Which is why I believe Jesus is THE first born i.e. the first spiritually created being. But the thing is, this truth can be found in the NT the OT, and various Gnostic texts, which collectively, is a lot of evidence…


- JC



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 01:11 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


If he is the same as us and he is the first born then so are we. You're looking at it in a very confined sense, you need to look at it in a broader, more general sense. We are the first created spiritual being because there is no "other" spiritual being except consciousness itself.

If Jesus was the first created spiritual being as you suggest, then why is he referred to as "second Adam"? If he is the first then he cannot be second as well.

We share the same essence as Jesus, meaning him being the first also means we are the first along with him. There is no second or third, only One, which is the spirit itself, which we all share together.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 05:51 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
If he is the same as us and he is the first born then so are we.


He’s only the same as us because He came from the Father. But He’s different from us, in that He was the first, and was Co-Creator with the Father…

Which is why, for example Jesus refers to himself as the Vine, in the verse below…



John 15:1
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.”


And further down we have this…



John 15:5
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.


These verses clearly show that Jesus is not the Father, but they also show that He is not like us. This is also related to the receiving of the Holy Spirit, and the verses I pointed out to you, in my other reply.

Every Kingdom needs a king, otherwise there would be no order to it, only chaos.



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
You're looking at it in a very confined sense, you need to look at it in a broader, more general sense. We are the first created spiritual being because there is no "other" spiritual being except consciousness itself.

If Jesus was the first created spiritual being as you suggest, then why is he referred to as "second Adam"? If he is the first then he cannot be second as well.




1 Corinthians 14:45-47
The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.


Those verses are describing the order, of the type of men, that came to earth only, which is why Jesus is referred to as the second man, because He is of a type that came from Heaven i.e. a second type of man. So that verse actually helps to confirm, what I’m saying…

I would also say that you are looking at it in a confined sense too, you need to look at many verses as a whole, and build up your understanding from a collective number of verses, rather than just a few.



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
We share the same essence as Jesus, meaning him being the first also means we are the first along with him. There is no second or third, only One, which is the spirit itself, which we all share together.


Jesus and the Father created us. This is why Jesus states He will send the Holy Spirit, in his name, to those who come to believe in him; that’s what those verses, I showed you in that other post, are talking about.

“And on that day” you receive it, you will be in the Son, and in the Father. And you will experience what is described in John 7:38, and you may even witness the tongues of fire, like I did myself, when I came to believe.


- JC



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 08:16 PM
link   
Question(s)...

"Can you live only on rice, beans, water and 1 hour of internet per day to look for a job or read email for 3 weeks and devote 16 hours of the time to prayer, fasting and reading of the scriptures?"



Would that be considered 'seeking'......is that the real question of the particular scripture......and if I am permitted..to insert a bit of a word within the context of the scripture..........

"seek first the ' principles' of the Kingdom of God/Heaven FIRST"


20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God comes not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Look here! or, look there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
KJV
(emphasis is mine )



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 08:39 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


I see the "true vine" statement to be true, though in a different way than you. If a branch bears good fruit, that fruit will have seeds which will eventually turn into other vines.

Those people were only branches because they hadn't reached the extent of enlightenment as Jesus had. Give it enough time, and you will also become a true vine just as Jesus who spreads its branches to bear even more fruit.

Or do you believe there is only one vine in the garden? Not much of a garden if that's the case.

As I said, I don't think you're thinking outside of the box enough. We can all become vines just as Jesus was, it only takes time and patience.

edit on 14-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 08:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


You may not remember your past lives, but you have had them. I don't remember my past lives but I know I had them. We are all born "fresh as snow" when we reincarnate, that's the point.


I like that, my problem is I have never been human until now, and therein lies my confusion, no experience at all not even ever (#111 lifetime to give me a hint to reference "Dont walk on the thin ICE you are going to fall through". #112 lifetime tells me "do not live underneath Mt. Vesuvius at this date in time"). Drowned in one covered in Lava the other; Oh well, would am glad to have avoided these senarios; although 3NL1GHT3N3D1--I have always have had grave fears of lava flows and of being consumed by Man-eating Lions. I think this is transference of fear left over from paradyms I could not or was not in control of.
edit on 14-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 09:00 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


Of course not, but you could have possibly been another sentient creature that lives trillions of miles away, or you could have been a fish or something.

I think the universe is too huge and diverse for me to have lived on this planet as a human before, but then again you never know. I don't think we are stuck on this planet, it just so happens to be where we are in this incarnation.



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 09:27 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


There is nothing to fear but fear itself. If the beginning of wisdom is fear the end of wisdom must be to be free from such fear. Then you will see, quite clearly, "heaven within".



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 09:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


Of course not, but you could have possibly been another sentient creature that lives trillions of miles away, or you could have been a fish or something. I think the universe is too huge and diverse for me to have lived on this planet as a human before, but then again you never know. I don't think we are stuck on this planet, it just so happens to be where we are in this incarnation.


I wonder. I have had to remember myself as now a human without that experience; an entirely impossible goal I set out for myself. I believe I accomplished it A Miracle of comprehension and unique awareness of thyself. The universe is like all Southern Babtist church congregation members and I will never know each parishner, Oh wait I should have been ORAL Roberts. We arent stuck here for eternity, we are here in tandem to change the whole thing together all of us (not even knowing what we are accomplishing) like a dance of ideaforms, words that have immense power for anyone that reads and understands some of them, or all of those people that bought into the Crystal Cathedral (now bankrupt). I see organized religion as "Side Shows" for Carnival barking evangelical wannabe demi-Gods.
edit on 14-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2013 @ 09:34 PM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


You should also see heaven without. The inner is the outer and the outer is the inner.

As above, so below. The world around us is a projection and reflection of our inner selves.



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 10  11  12    14  15  16 >>

log in

join