Seek ye first, the Kingdom of Heaven

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Rather than bad or good, how about for or against love. This is the choice you need to make. Is this choice for or against love? Believe in the power you have as a son, you have been given the ability to choose.

At times it seems impossible because we have chained ourselves to that which we want to be released from. We actually decide that hell is the farthest we can ascend. We become our own self-fulfilling prophecy.

One cannot "fall into love", one has to step into love. The bible says that religion should be in place to take care of the widows and orphans, to step into love by helping widows and orphans. Is not every human being that is homeless a child without a home, an orphan? Why do we only help the lost until they are 18, shouldn't we always help the Orphan, regardless of age?

I point this out to show you the fallibility of the church but the infallibility of love. You have the ability to love the orphan in a way the church cannot. It may even be that you are an orphan yourself. A child without a home. Look within to the father and pray that he guide you back home.

I am like the directional booth at the mall. I can point you where you need to go, I can even give you some general directions and some signs that you are on the right path, but eventually you must choose to overcome yourself. Obeying Christ, "turn the other cheek" to negative emotions when they are present, overcome them. A piece of God is within you, find the love within, love is itself the power needed to overcome. Find that piece of God's love within and become a mirror to the world. You can become a reflection of Christ, which is a reflection of God, if it were not so Christ would not have said it.

You are the only one left who doesn't believe in you. Do you see this? The father believes, the son believes, I believe and so do many other posters here on ATS. Would you allow us to believe enough for you so that you may take a leap of faith with a bit of certainty?

For now if you are truly looking, don't let yourself be distracted by how others react to you so much. This is a big step in controlling one's emotions. The ultimate goal for me is complete control over my emotions, so they are always used only when appropriate and desired, and only to share the emotions that bring joy into my life.

You can't get rid of anger, but you can master it and control it, then you can look within to find where it comes from. This is true for all emotions that are against love. For love is the only emotion that comes as a reward and love has no master. The spirit of Love chooses who it wilt and shows itself to those who pursue.

Oh and a healthy bit of patience. Love is patient and it will test your patience. D

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Because the flesh does not always align with the spirit. So rather than go against what is on the inside I prefer to control what is on the outside.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
reply to post by Joecroft

 

Joe I believe it was Jesus doing all the talking in the OT. I lean towards them all being the same. Water is water but it comes in three forms - liquid, solid and gas. I've heard 2 distinct different voices, so I can't say for 100%. I definitely believe the Gospel of Thomas to be the true words of Christ. I like to read all the old texts too. Whether for a different take on something or to gain a morsel of knowledge is good by me.

how do you believe the gospel of Thomas is Christs words, and believe that Jesus was the one talking in the OT

You do know Thomas is a gnostic work right?

Of course I know Thomas was found among the Nag Hammadi Library - Codex II.

Jesus tells us himself that before Abraham was born he already existed and since he IS the Word of God it's a no brainer to come to the conclusion he was manifesting in the OT prophets as well - that makes him doing most if not all the talking in the OT.

As far as the Gospel of Thomas in concerned - why shouldn't I consider it as being the true words of the Living Jesus in the first place? Because a bunch of old frumpy men told me I couldn't?Lol Is the text full of lies? No. Honestly, the only thing I can find in there that upset Rome was that he said to go to James and not Peter as the leader. Also, I hear quite a few of my fellow christians say they have a problem with the concept of dualism, when we have been born into it since God put Adam into a deep sleep and basically split him in two - creating Eve? Why are there two hemispheres of the brain? Is it possible that during divine union, when a person is in complete ecstasy that the left and right brain merge on a spiritual level creating that which is only begotten from God himself?

Is it possible, that just as Jesus Christ opened minds in the past (Luke 24:45) he would do it today? There are things contained in Thomas which proves to me beyond a reasonable doubt those are his sayings.

Example from TGOT
23. Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one from a thousand and two from ten thousand, and they will stand as a single one."

The thousand and ten thousand terminology is not found in the NT but in the Old (Deut 32:30, Judges 20:10 specifically). In finding those two verses I had to weed through 14 pages of "thousands" terminology. He liked to talk in thousands. But take a look at this verse found in Jeremiah and compare it to Saying 23 of Thomas:

"Return, faithless people," declares the LORD, "for I am your husband. I will choose you--one from a town and two from a clan--and bring you to Zion." Jeremiah 3:14

You see I know his voice. "When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." John 10: 4-5

Can you show me a saying in Thomas you find problematic. I love these kind of discussions and truly wish there were more of them.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Can you show me a saying in Thomas you find problematic. I love these kind of discussions and truly wish there were more of them.

Actually... I don't have any issues saying that Thomas was Jesus' words... I even have a thread series about the relationship between the gospels and Thomas you might like...

The First Synod of ATS: The gospel of Thomas

Part II

What I do have serious issues with is you saying the OT was Jesus... That is just sooo wrong, but hey.. Everyone is free to their own beliefs...

Honestly though my friend, you should really look deeper into this issue... Don't just accept what you've been told... You did it with Thomas... You said specifically..

why shouldn't I consider it as being the true words of the Living Jesus in the first place? Because a bunch of old frumpy men told me I couldn't?Lol

Well... You really have to look at what is being taught in the OT as compared to what Jesus taught... the so called god of the OT is NOT Jesus.... Noooooooooooooooooooooooo....

Jesus did not say his Father was a jealous God.... Jesus would not have told his children to destroy, rape, and pillage other tribes...

Remember, the people who wrote the NT were Jewish, and apparently so was Jesus... though that is debatable... They wanted to connect Jesus with their God... but if they were the same, Jesus would have taught what the OT did... but he did not! He spoke out against many of the teachings in the OT... broke their rules, and gave us better ones....

Jesus Vs. The imposter

Don't be deceived my friend...

Jesus was not the OT God.... Nothing even close...

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Because the flesh does not always align with the spirit. So rather than go against what is on the inside I prefer to control what is on the outside.

But we are of the flesh how does one deny it, flesh is gross matter, its our clothing. I understand that spirit resides in it so I must accept my soul resides within it not without it. Perhaps the aligning thing is the problem, If I conclude my spirit resides in my heart then I must accept that is where the residency is taken up upon/into. I must protect my heart.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Sacgamer
Please God don't send me to hell for this one, it's all in fun, and I believe you to have a sense of humor, but I'm pretty sure I can't be proven wrong using scripture alone.

I normally keep the sense of humor under wraps, but me and Vet have a tiny bit of comic history, on ATS…

Funnily enough…I believe the same thing… that I can't be proven wrong using scripture…problem is, I quote from outside of the Bible too, which most believers have a problem with…

Originally posted by Sacgamer
The Holy Spirit impregnated Mary. Jesus is the Holy Spirit. I will let you come up with the rest.

Regarding th Holy Spirit I believe that at some point, the Spirit of “The Son of God” entered into Jesus. When Jesus was baptized, He received what the Bible calls the “Holy Spirit”, but it was really the Spirit of the Father. When this happened Jesus and the Fathers Spirit became one again. It is the Fathers Spirit and the Sons together, which is the Holy Spirit IMO.

Father + Jesus = The Holy Spirit

This is why I believed it is written, that if you blaspheme the Father, the Son will forgive you, and if you blaspheme the Son, the Father will forgive you, but there can be no forgiveness, for blaspheming the Holy Spirit…

Makes perfect sense to me…

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


I considered making a thread on this but since I already have one on this subject... I'll just ask the question

how does one blaspheme the holy spirit?

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by vethumanbeing

sacgamer25
Rather than bad or good, how about for or against love. This is the choice you need to make. Is this choice for or against love? Believe in the power you have as a son, you have been given the ability to choose.
At times it seems impossible because we have chained ourselves to that which we want to be released from. We actually decide that hell is the farthest we can ascend. We become our own self-fulfilling prophecy.
One cannot "fall into love", one has to step into love. The bible says that religion should be in place to take care of the widows and orphans, to step into love by helping widows and orphans. Is not every human being that is homeless a child without a home, an orphan? Why do we only help the lost until they are 18, shouldn't we always help the Orphan, regardless of age?

I would like to think in terms of good/vs evil but for me have equal voice. My choice is for the good/love, but must understand the other HAS TO EXIST as WE allow it, (not to flurish, kept in statis-quo to DEFINE THE BORDERS OF THE GOOD AND JUST). I understand we are our own self-fullfilling prophecy, that is the point of Karmic reincarnation, we are Dantes Inferno "Abyss Lookyloos". The Bible should talk instead about Widows and Orphans and helping the strife/poverty thereof, IMPLIMENT A/THE stopGAP to refrain from causation of leaving these people widows and orphans. Bible is TOO LATE a tasty condiment applied to/upon the necessity of the human condition.

Sacgamer25
I point this out to show you the fallibility of the church but the infallibility of love. You have the ability to love the orphan in a way the church cannot. It may even be that you are an orphan yourself. A child without a home. Look within to the father and pray that he guide you back home. I am like the directional booth at the mall. I can point you where you need to go, I can even give you some general directions and some signs that you are on the right path, but eventually you must choose to overcome yourself. Obeying Christ, "turn the other cheek" to negative emotions when they are present, overcome them. A piece of God is within you, find the love within, love is itself the power needed to overcome. Find that piece of God's love within and become a mirror to the world. You can become a reflection of Christ, which is a reflection of God, if it were not so Christ would not have said it.

My biggest problem is my EGO I cannot obey anyone; my nature says strike back as I see so much unfairness in Gods world. Jesus is a non-player, another one left and hung out to dry, as Mohammed was as well. The God that exists within me wants me to rather than roll over FIGHT with a tenacity for its identity, it is me I am IT. I am individualized I can be myself and Jesus and God at Once.

Sacgamer25
You are the only one left who doesn't believe in you. Do you see this? The father believes, the son believes, I believe and so do many other posters here on ATS. Would you allow us to believe enough for you so that you may take a leap of faith with a bit of certainty? For now if you are truly looking, don't let yourself be distracted by how others react to you so much. This is a big step in controlling one's emotions. The ultimate goal for me is complete control over my emotions, so they are always used only when appropriate and desired, and only to share the emotions that bring joy into my life. You can't get rid of anger, but you can master it and control it, then you can look within to find where it comes from. This is true for all emotions that are against love. For love is the only emotion that comes as a reward and love has no master. The spirit of Love chooses who it wilt and shows itself to those who pursue. Oh and a healthy bit of patience. Love is patient and it will test your patience.

This forum is inclusive, very smart people here, its a pleasure to be a part of the discussion. Can be an emotion ride but the message is what is to be transmuted (MOST IMPORTANT), if we bother to say a deeply felt truism that might touch someone GO FOR IT, Ego is the afterthought driver and should be set in neutral. I am trying to understand the love/loosh as a force (positive) what other point is to be made? negative can take a short walk off of a long pier. Love is the key to everything yet simplified reduced into trivialism love as WHAT? Nothing Special, yet is the only thing that has the force to dispell war, ignorance, violence upon the natives.

reply to post by Akragon


I did see your thread but opted out of participating after reading the first few posts. I thought you would do all the verses and not just select ones.

Nope not deceived. Our Jesus of the NT is the same ole same ole that lived inside the prophets of old. He did the talking. He called Abraham his friend, he was the power in Moses and he made it so armies were conquered. Got a problem with it? You'll need to take it up with him.

reply to post by Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon
I considered making a thread on this but since I already have one on this subject... I'll just ask the question

how does one blaspheme the holy spirit?

It’s a good question…although I’m not entirely sure of the answer…

My best guess, would be something that rejects or/and attacks, both the Fathers words, and the Sons together…


- JC

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


Well that might be tough...

I'd rather take it up with people that might listen...

SO you freely admit Jesus told moses to tell his people to murder women and children?

Told them to go out and conquer the land... Death to gays, witches, fortune tellers, bratty children etc etc...

Im not even going to argue with that... I just ruins threads...

But its good to know where people stand on the issue... Mind you that is the typical Christian stance, though its a bit weird you'd appreciate heretical texts...

DO you like the rest of the gnostic library as well or just Thomas?

I did see your thread but opted out of participating after reading the first few posts. I thought you would do all the verses and not just select ones.

I planned to do all of them, I was just going over the easier ones first... some take a bit to explain...

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by Akragon

 

Originally posted by Akragon
I considered making a thread on this but since I already have one on this subject... I'll just ask the question

how does one blaspheme the holy spirit?

It’s a good question…although I’m not entirely sure of the answer…

My best guess, would be something that rejects or/and attacks, both the Fathers words, and the Sons together…


- JC

Something like this perhaps?

Blasphemy, more then you think it is?

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by Akragon

 

Originally posted by Akragon
I considered making a thread on this but since I already have one on this subject... I'll just ask the question

how does one blaspheme the holy spirit?

It’s a good question…although I’m not entirely sure of the answer…
My best guess, would be something that rejects or/and attacks, both the Fathers words, and the Sons together…
- JC

You do not admit to the blaspheme. You deny deny deny and do not express explain the denial and who or what that entails (like a secret hail mary un-uttered to the hidden choir in the vestible or the priest in the confessional). YOU THINK IT is all, so, whos listening? GOD; someone explain to me the difference between the holy spirit, god and Jesus/Mohammed/Budda, and Waste Management Corp?

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by Akragon

 

Originally posted by Akragon
I considered making a thread on this but since I already have one on this subject... I'll just ask the question

how does one blaspheme the holy spirit?

It’s a good question…although I’m not entirely sure of the answer…
My best guess, would be something that rejects or/and attacks, both the Fathers words, and the Sons together…
- JC

You do not admit to the blaspheme. You deny deny deny and do not express explain the denial and who or what that entails (like a secret hail mary un-uttered to the hidden choir in the vestible or the priest in the confessional). YOU THINK IT is all, so, whos listening? GOD; someone explain to me the difference between the holy spirit, god and Jesus/Mohammed/Budda, and Waste Management Corp?

edit on 10-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I do believe that would fall under the "repentance" category....

Or lack of at least...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Akragon

vethumanbeing
You do not admit to the blaspheme. You deny deny deny and do not express explain the denial and who or what that entails (like a secret hail mary un-uttered to the hidden choir in the vestible or the priest in the confessional). YOU THINK IT is all, so, whos listening? GOD; someone explain to me the difference between the holy spirit, god and Jesus/Mohammed/Budda, and Waste Management Corp.

Akragon
I do believe that would fall under the "repentance" category....
Or lack of at least...

Who has to repent, Waste Management Corporation FIRST, Holy Spirit must Manifest, God has to come out of hiding, Jesus must resurrect ITSELF, Budda must proclaim itself as the living Dali Lhama (if it could be drawn away from those telescopes and tiddlywinks somewhere living in BOMBAY), Mohammed pulled out of a 15 thousand per night hotel room in Dubai. Who will show up the party first?

reply to post by Akragon


It's been a really long time since I sat and read them at great length. I guess it is a bit unusual to find an open minded christian who is still old school, but it is what it is! I don't think Thomas is heretical. The Cathars were labeled heretics and burned alive and their main text they followed was the Gospel of John. I believe there is quite a bit to be learned from the Gospel of Philip but I wouldn't endorse it like I do Thomas.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
reply to post by Akragon

 

It's been a really long time since I sat and read them at great length. I guess it is a bit unusual to find an open minded christian who is still old school, but it is what it is! I don't think Thomas is heretical. The Cathars were labeled heretics and burned alive and their main text they followed was the Gospel of John. I believe there is quite a bit to be learned from the Gospel of Philip but I wouldn't endorse it like I do Thomas.

Have you read the OT?

I mean its a great story, but not comparable to Jesus by any means... Jesus barely quotes the OT... and only bits and pieces of it...

Oh, and have you read Antithesis... per chance?

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and Contradictions [antithesis] of gnosis falsely so called.

Antithesis

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Attention sarcasm coming.

I think you are too smart for your own good and you think too much. Not intended as a direct insult, more of a backhanded compliment. Instead of thinking so much, quiet yourself and listen. Or not, you are the one who has the power to choose.

reply to post by Akragon


Of course I've read the OT. No I haven't read all of the text you posted above for me, but I did skim through it and it's very flawed in my humble opinion. Why would anyone have a problem with God repenting? A few years back, I was reading the flood story (for the umpteenth time) and when he repented of making man, for the first time I cried with him and not to him. I love him whether he flips over tables (JC at the temple) or has a regret - see this is a prime example of how we can talk and ponder such things of God the Father and/or Jesus and wrong or right be totally forgiven. The Holy Spirit on the other hand we don't go there for he is of the truth. We are also not supposed to grieve him.

reply to post by Joecroft


Here is the puzzle, follow along to see if all the pieces fit.

I see the son as the light (John 8:12) of this world. The firstborn over all creation (Colossians 1:15), which means he must be the light in (Genesis 1:3).

If you except that Christ is the "light" in Genesis, than the use of the word "OUR" when speaking of creating man in "OUR" image you can clearly see that God is talking with his son about making man in their image.

If you are still following the logic listen to what else this says.

Jesus told his disciples, the father will send the helper "Holy Spirit" in the name of Christ Jesus (John 14:26)

If it was his father's spirit that was being sent then why would he say in my name? Now later it says in the end all things will be subject to the father even Christ (1 Corinthians 15:28).

So if the father and the son make up one Holy Spirit why is it sent in the name Christ Jesus and how could the Christ become subject to the father. Here is the final piece in the puzzle.

If Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one, then we could say that Jesus Christ is the spirit of love. The love that Christ showed man while on earth was a perfect reflection of God's love for us. Thus he and the father are one (John 10:30) and if you have seen me you have seen the father (14:7) for they are both spirit and spirit is love.

The word became flesh (John 1:14) "Word" = "light", in the beginning let there be "light"

Now with this understanding check out this verse and see if you believe what it says?

John 1:1-5
In the beginning was Love, and Love was with God, and the Love was God. 2 Love was with God in the beginning. 3 Through love all things were made; without love nothing was made that has been made. 4 In love was life, and that life was the love of all mankind. 5 The love shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome love.

It is my opinion that no one can be truly away from the father because the father is love, and without the father one could not have life. In this way the father is always with us because he unconditionally loves us, but the son is a gift to those who would pursue love.

Without the "son" one can only see a shadow of the love to come. Plato - The Cave