It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Mysterious spot on radar but it's not smoke or rain -

page: 7
44
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 10:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by Bedlam
reply to post by UnknownEntity4U
 


If nexrad's trying to get a shape from several stations, a circle is what you'll see if there's something pinging back at nexrad.


WHAT?! You know nothing of how a radar work nor how they create the mosaic. A radar does not "ping" anything. It isn't a router....


Consider - any transponder-like return from a radar ping will be slightly delayed. So from any nexrad transmitter's POV, the "target" will appear to be a fixed location slightly past the actual transponder/jammer. If this happens from every external viewpoint (multiple nexrad stations at various locations) then what it sees is a return that's a fixed radius from the transponder, i.e. a circle.


Wrong. First, the NEXRAD is a Doppler radar system and does not have any "transponder" on it. Ugh...a little education clears up a bunch of speculation I suppose.




posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 10:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by cheesy
Look at this The bloop have a center hole





WTF??


A center hole where.....wait for it....the radar is located?! Radars, especially the NEXRAD, do not see directly above them so there will naturally be a "hole" in that location. It is called the "cone of silence" and any radar technician will confirm that.
edit on 5-6-2013 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 10:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by Violetshy
A weird blotch happened around Altus Air Force base a few months ago. I made a video of it, because my mom called me freaking out. We were expected to have bad weather that day, and she thought they had a sudden freak storm pop up.
Within a few hours there was storms in that location. I made a video of that too.


One of the comments was that the radar malfunctioned. I did notice that they took the radar down for a bit after this, so it's plausible..but my guess is that there are some working going on near these bases. It's being detected more now because more people are looking at the weather radars than ever. We're noticing patterns and odd goings. Just my opinion, I'm not a professional meteorologist, but the radars are either glitching, or detecting something that we can't see to naked eye, as most people are stating that the skies were clear during these occurrences.


That "bloom" is directly over Fredrick, OK...which is where the radar is located. It's just an anomaly in the radar, I've seen it happen lots of times at that radar location. I'm in SW Oklahoma, my folks live in Altus. What has ME interested though is the anomaly that pops up every evening between Vernon, TX and Altus, OK. This anomaly is approx 30 miles SW of the Fredrick radar, more than enough distance for the "normal" interference one usually gets from these radars.

Take a look any evening at that spot...north and a bit west of Vernon, TX just south of the Red River. This anomaly isn't the blue or green that usually denotes moisture laiden air close to the radar...this anomaly shows the red/purple and yellows of severe weather...but nothing is there. I first noticed it a couple weeks ago while storm watching. I thought another thunderstorm popped up and would start heading NE...but it never moved. The next night, the same thing happened. It's there again tonight;

wunderground.com Wundermap
www.wunderground.com...

KSWO TV 7's nexrad;
www.kswo.com...

Now, I'm not talking about the large blue area...that's just moisture in the air...I'm talking about the red and yellow's that usually denote a thunderstorm. The anomaly is just west of Highway 283 just south of the red river. There's nothing out there either except farm land. The few trees that are there are 20 feet high max. Check out google street view of the area.

News9 radar;
www.news9.com...#!/swok/radar.htm

Now I realize most of these radar sites use the Fredrick radar...so maybe something is wrong with the Fredrick radar? If so, why does it show up at that exact spot every evening? I would think that a messed up radar one would have errors all over the area, not just one specific spot every single evening...
edit on 5-6-2013 by EdSurly because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 10:46 PM
link   
Took some screen captures to show what I was talking about in the Vernon, TX area. I circled the anomaly.

The first is from KWTV channel 9 radar site;


This is from the site I usually visit when stormy and it's where I first noticed the anomaly;


This is wunderground.com's wundermap;


Remember, there are no storms in that area...there are some farther south over Stamford, TX tonight but nothing in the Vernon or Altus area. You can go to one of the sites for the radar and see it "develop" around 7 or 8pm tomorrow night also, just as it has for the last couple weeks.
edit on 5-6-2013 by EdSurly because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 10:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Gohome1122
 





Heres your answer.

sincedutch.wordpress.com...


You understand that anything on this site is BS....

That is not even remotely true at all, this definitely is not related to HAARP and it never will be as it doesn't function that way.


He may have actually gotten that one right
Legit source?
www.nrl.navy.mil...


The United States Naval Research Laboratory sounds like a legit source to me...

Personally, I find dutchsinse's posts and Facebook page interesting for bringing weird things to my attention that I might not hear about otherwise, kind of like ATS. But like most such sites, including ATS, you have to be able to dig a bit on your own. If you do that, once in a while you'll stumble on some old university or think tank white papers or unclassified military documents that turn your view of reality upside down.

Great find, Pauligirl!



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 10:58 PM
link   
reply to post by EdSurly
 


I Greet You!

Well it does not look like there is some military co., producing or trying out new toy's, and heard that somewhere bout the one east.
I wonder what it could be? There has been a lot of Gamma Ray Bursts lately.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 11:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by chachonee
reply to post by EdSurly
 


I Greet You!

Well it does not look like there is some military co., producing or trying out new toy's, and heard that somewhere bout the one east.
I wonder what it could be? There has been a lot of Gamma Ray Bursts lately.


Right, nothing in that spot except for wheat fields, cattle and mesquite. There is a very large military installation in Lawton; Fort Sill where all the artillery units are trained and a small-ish air force base in Altus. It's an airlift training base. Lots of C-17's and tankers.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 11:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by Pauligirl

He may have actually gotten that one right
Legit source?


The source is legit but the reference isn't. Not the same thing at all.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 11:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by Bedlam
reply to post by UnknownEntity4U
 


If nexrad's trying to get a shape from several stations, a circle is what you'll see if there's something pinging back at nexrad.


WHAT?! You know nothing of how a radar work nor how they create the mosaic. A radar does not "ping" anything. It isn't a router....


*sigh* if you have a transponder or jammer, and it's returning a "ping" to NEXRAD (and yes, that's what you call it) then you'll get a circle. Let me break it down for you again. If I have a jammer, and it's returning a radar pulse to an interrogating pulse from a radar, NEXRAD or not, you'll tend to either show a radial or you'll show a circle. It depends on how the radar interprets it. That's because any jammer that works by returning faux reflections has a response delay, but that delay is relatively fixed for any mode. It ALWAYS looks like the "target" is a bit past the jammer. If every NEXRAD station that scans the jammer "sees" a "target" that's at a fixed location a bit past the jammer, you can get an interpreted circle that's centered on the jammer. Whether or not you get a blip or a radial depends on how long the jammer pulses in return, in conjunction with how the display software does the range gating.

eta: and yeah, I know about the cone of silence. It has to do with the limits on the scanning antenna's elevation, which draws out a conical shape. Above that, no signal.





Wrong. First, the NEXRAD is a Doppler radar system and does not have any "transponder" on it. Ugh...a little education clears up a bunch of speculation I suppose.


A little reading does even better - no one said jack # about NEXRAD having a transponder. Did they? No, they did not. What I did say was if you had a jammer at the arsenal, and they do, you could easily get that return. Jesus, when did reading for understanding become that difficult? Hint - base reflectivity isn't doppler.
edit on 6-6-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by Bedlam
*sigh* if you have a transponder or jammer, and it's returning a "ping" to NEXRAD (and yes, that's what you call it) then you'll get a circle. Let me break it down for the mentally incapacitated. If I have a jammer, and it's returning a radar pulse to an interrogating pulse, you'll either show a radial or you'll show a circle. It depends on how the radar interprets it. In this case, even more broken down, in single syllables, if Nex rad pulse out rad ar, and jam mer pick it up and re turn it to in ter fere, then it look like cir cle or rad i al.


*sigh* indeed. What frequency will you be transmitting at? It isn't a ping.....it would be a return. If the radar is not expecting a return from that position, due to timing, it will filter out that return.

Break it down...to the 10 year radar technician...I would love to hear it.

Radars (at least not Doppler ones; MODES, TPX-42, ATCBI, etc maybe) are not "interrogating". They are radiating. But your response is cute nonetheless.


A little reading does even better - no one said jack # about NEXRAD having a transponder. Did they? No, they did not.


Except here is what you said....and I quote:
"Consider - any transponder-like return from a radar ping will be slightly delayed."

Maybe clarify that statement....


Hint - base reflectivity isn't doppler. I doubt you could say what the doppler equation was without two hours of looking on wikipedia.


Depends....do you want the schematics for the NEXRAD xmitter? Its pusle width? How about its scan patterns? Or maybe how much the MPA is hit with? Maybe you want the various PRFs?

The formula is hard to type here, but in basic, it is frequency = c + frequency received divided by c + frequency sent. A positive means that the returned RF is "closer" to the received signal and a negative is "further" from the sent signal; in relation to its frequency shift.

A Doppler radar, such as the NEXRAD (or even the TDWR; FAA system) produces base products in which later, through the radar product generator, more data is derived. Such, those base products include: I know you aren't going to like this but.......base reflectivity. The raw data wouldn't make sense to anyone really except seeing a radar screen of a range of 280nm (depending on its scan at the time) of just pure radar hits.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

*sigh* indeed. What frequency will you be transmitting at? It isn't a ping.....it would be a return. If the radar is not expecting a return from that position, due to timing, it will filter out that return.


Most jamming devices tend to return the frequency they are hit with. You can, obviously, return a false doppler as well. The jammer doesn't generate a return - you're not bouncing off of it, it's generating an intentionally false response. It tends to do that rather quickly, but the delta t is always more than 0. Thus, the radar will show it on the display. Whether you want to try to fox the radar into masking it or not dictates how you fudge the return. Some jammers will give a doppler that contradicts the motion of the faux target in order to get the radar to see the real target (if you were in a plane with it) as a false return and blank it. Otherwise you can return a pulse narrow enough to show as a small target or lengthen it out to fill the range gate.



Break it down...to the 10 year radar technician...I would love to hear it.


From the 10 year radar designer, I will be happy to.



Radars (at least not Doppler ones; MODES, TPX-42, ATCBI, etc maybe) are not "interrogating". They are radiating. But your response is cute nonetheless.


It's accurate, as well as cute.




Except here is what you said....and I quote:
"Consider - any transponder-like return from a radar ping will be slightly delayed."

Maybe clarify that statement....


Ok - let's widen your window a bit...



Consider - any transponder-like return from a radar ping will be slightly delayed. So from any nexrad transmitter's POV, the "target" will appear to be a fixed location slightly past the actual transponder/jammer. If this happens from every external viewpoint (multiple nexrad stations at various locations) then what it sees is a return that's a fixed radius from the transponder, i.e. a circle.


In the original context, I was describing how an intentional radiator at the arsenal could cause a circle display. Note: transponder-like, transponder/jammer. This is the context. A jammer is transponder-like in some modes in that it will return a foxed response to an incoming radar pulse. I did not say the nexrad was a transponder, contained a transponder, or that the putative jamming device was a literal transponder. I said "transponder-like" or "transponder/jammer". Now, as I said, you can try to time the PRF and reply with a pulse slightly before the radar, but any radar worth its salt will generally try to vary the PRF and/or chirp in some identifiable way to confound that. So most jammers that are generating a false return will have a slight delay and the target will seem to be slightly past the jammer, but generally a fixed distance past. Unless the jammer is varying that on purpose.



Depends....do you want the schematics for the NEXRAD xmitter? Its pusle width? How about its scan patterns? Or maybe how much the MPA is hit with? Maybe you want the various PRFs?


Want them for AESA?





A Doppler radar, such as the NEXRAD (or even the TDWR; FAA system) produces base products in which later, through the radar product generator, more data is derived. Such, those base products include: I know you aren't going to like this but.......base reflectivity. The raw data wouldn't make sense to anyone really except seeing a radar screen of a range of 280nm (depending on its scan at the time) of just pure radar hits.


Base reflectivity doesn't really factor in dopplers. It's the returned radar reflection intensity in dbz. There are a lot of doppler-derived products from the product generator, but base reflectivity is about as plain an amplitude response as it gets, with the usual range gating and nonsense returns factored out. NEXRAD looks at frequency shifts as well as amplitude data and does a lot of munching. And yes, you can derive a lot of data from that. But if I look for your pulse and throw one back at you, it'll show as long as I'm not being gated out.
edit on 6-6-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

The formula is hard to type here, but in basic, it is frequency = c + frequency received divided by c + frequency sent. A positive means that the returned RF is "closer" to the received signal and a negative is "further" from the sent signal; in relation to its frequency shift.


You don't get doppler shifts due to distance. You get them due to the projection of target motion towards/away from the transmitter. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say...



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:42 AM
link   
reply to post by EdSurly
 


Yeah I know what you mean. I'm from Lawton originally, and I'm often looking at radars for my grandma when the storms are supposed to get bad because she doesn't have net/tv and my gramps refuses to get a shelter. I'm in Tulsa right now, so I use several different radar sites. It was on multiple ones. I've honestly seen when there are radar malfunctions and when there are like weird radar bloops, this was slightly different to me.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:54 AM
link   
reply to post by Bedlam
 


It is obvious that we both know much about radar; we can continue our jabs or learn from each other. I had the benefit of learning from RADES for a number of years along with my current position.

Your clarification helped. But AESE? I hope you are not implying that the NEXRAD utilizes an arrayed antenna. Plain ole parabolic is what that beast is. Maybe a different acronym is implied.

Also, yes, hard to convey the formula. That is why "further" is in quotes....



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:54 AM
link   
reply to post by Violetshy
 


If the radar dudes up above ever stop their pissing match maybe we could get some answers!



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 01:04 AM
link   
reply to post by EdSurly
 


Nah we are geeks...this is what geeks argue about


I blame either normal and documented Doppler radar anomaly, maintenance issue (still looking for level II data for that radar) or still open to something else. My first bet: #1.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 01:12 AM
link   
The "Radar Dudes" are not mentioning the most likely cause of the anomaly. It is most likely that the radar is in a COAC mode, (clutter operated anti-clutter) because the atmospheric conditions, even though appearing clear, are presently not optimal enough for good returns. Usually, this is used if there is an inversion layer effect in the atmosphere. Anyway, COAC is the generation of broadband noise in radar circuitry that is filtered out in real time using a Gaussian inversion (out of phase) of the injected signal. The gain obtained helps to see target data more clearly, but the presentation from the video output is going to look pretty much like what you are seeing here. Some days, you will see many radar stations on the map that may look this way, like big foggy doughnuts or patches around the location of the radar station.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 01:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
It is obvious that we both know much about radar; we can continue our jabs or learn from each other. I had the benefit of learning from RADES for a number of years along with my current position.

Your clarification helped. But AESE? I hope you are not implying that the NEXRAD utilizes an arrayed antenna. Plain ole parabolic is what that beast is. Maybe a different acronym is implied.

Also, yes, hard to convey the formula. That is why "further" is in quotes....


Nah, it's the sort of radar I work on/with these days. I don't do NEXRAD other than as a mental exercise, by far most of my current stuff is phased array. Although I started out back in 1979 as a radar tech ("electronic mechanic") for the Corps of Engineers while I was in high school, it was all tubes and spinning parabolic antennas back then on big old horrible GE rigs with gas tube antenna switches. On boats.

I'm all military radar now (some of which was done on the Arsenal...) so I tend to see things from a mil centric view. You see a circle and think cone of silence, I see one and think of jammers


Although I do think that future NEXRAD type systems will be phased array - you can look at a lot of ground in a blink. Or divvy up the array and scan in several areas at once with reduced resolution.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 01:23 AM
link   
reply to post by 1curious1
 


I still get rattled that people are STILL acting like spaceships and light ships are a big deal.. Our OWN little-destructive race is flying around the planet (and possibly beyond - black budget prjects n.e.1?)!!

"ohhh a light in the sky :O!!"

"Look a radar blimp that is unidentified :O!!"

"Did you hear that sound in the atmopshere?! :O!!"

hahah,... Seriously people need to get more. Take a vacation or leave your cty for a cuople days; sky watch all night - you will realize (REAL EYES) that this is normal stuff. They arent hiding themselves, they dont act like its a big deal. They DO know most of humanity deep down beleives, they do know people have thought patterns about ET/IDs, they do know that Hollywood has many movies of ET and outterspace stuff.. Come on people its not a big deal anymore.

What IS a big deal is there are men and woman controlling society through government (Govern your mind - "ment" = mental - mental = mind) and banks.
THAT IS A BIG DEAL PEOPLE! AN ENTIRE RACE BLIND TO THE AGENDA OF A FEW OF THEIR OWN! LOL!

Thanks for posting anyways curious; I know your just curious about 'em
Soon we will all see.. Its humanities destiny to become a galactic neighboor, we just need to get our *Snip* straight



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 01:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by charlyv
The "Radar Dudes" are not mentioning the most likely cause of the anomaly. It is most likely that the radar is in a COAC mode...


I sort of assumed that the nexrad operators/weather dudes would have factored for that. Was there a thermal inversion? I mean, you could get all sorts of weather related doofus returns from superrefraction or ducting too, but this one's got some really interesting facets to it. Namely, the doppler returns were showing vertically oriented motion vectors like you get with chaff, only there wasn't a chaff tail. Which goes along with the use of deactivating chaff.

There also wasn't a lot of funky capping inversion looking plot data coming from the ceilometer at UAH. In fact, I don't think the ceilometer data showed any unusual data at all. Which in itself might be a bit odd, unless the chaff (if there) is coming down pretty much vertical, which you wouldn't expect given the winds.




top topics



 
44
<< 4  5  6    8 >>

log in

join