Gay marriage and families

reply to post by rockhndr

After reading your story in another thread, I was hoping you would share it with us in this one.

There is no one more qualified to comment than a child who has been raised themselves by gay parents. I deliberately started on a positive note so the thread didn't start out as one based on hate.

We need to hear more stories from people like yourself, both positive and negative so we can judge the truth for ourselves.

The thing is no one truly knows what the 'Winning Formula' is for raising kids, many Men-Woman couples have raised serial murders, rapist and pedophiles, equally Same sex couples could too, but to deny us the right to raise kids based off our Sexuality is absurd, to attack us at not having 'Family Values' and 'Brainwashing' children into being gay is equally absurd

reply to post by rockhndr

Originally posted by rockhndr
So basically what you are saying is that because all children get bullied in some way, that it is OK to put a child in a situation that the higher possibility for bullying is there?

What I'm saying is we are in the middle of a struggle for civil rights. In ANY struggle, people get hurt. I'm saying that because people get hurt isn't a reason to back down and continue to discriminate against gay people and their children. Whenever people have to fight for their rights, there is going to be a phase where some get hurt. Some get killed. It's been that way in every civil rights struggle.

I'm sorry you didn't (and don't) feel you could talk with your parents about it. They were the adults and should have been there and been involved in what was happening with you. I have a feeling if you had talked with them, they would have been expecting it and would have understood and maybe there would have been a better outcome.

My parents had me when they were 44 and 53. They were the same age as other kids' grandparents by the time I got to school. Kids used to tease me about my parents being old. They called them my grandma and grandpa... I talked with my parents about it.

It is a TOTALLY NEW ballgame to tell your GAYparents that THEIR choices are what are harming you most in your psychological childhood years....

Their choices weren't harming you. The other kids' insecurities and bullying were harming you. I'm pretty sure your parents would have understood that.

I would still advise you to talk with your moms about this.

reply to post by rockhndr


This is kind of bothering me... You talk as though your moms were responsible for what you experienced, when I think it's society's homophobia and prejudices that are to blame.

I think kids of gay parents ARE in special circumstances and they need to have the support of their parents and even additional help, but it's to deal with society's homophobia, NOT the choices their parents made.

That's why it's so important for gay marriage to become mainstream and accepted by the majority of society - so it's not something to tease or bully about.

Biracial children used to have the same issues. But today, it's not a big deal at all for them - except for the few hold outs, who insist that it's "wrong" to marry outside one's race. Today, biracial kids are accepted and successful. They can even be president.

reply to post by rockhndr


I am sorry to read this, but again, you can go on the Net and find a HUGE compilation of people who were abused/bullied in their childhood. Vast majority of them are from straight households. Their experiences are no less terrible than yours.

But the main thing is that it wasnt your gay parents who abused and tortured you - it's the intolerant straight people who did it. It's like refusing to support Saudi Arabian women's right to drive, because their men are vehemently against it and can make life unbearable to any woman - and, by proxy, their kids- who dares to drive.

If anyone has any questions regarding the matter of being raised by homosexuals, I can offer my personal expertise. I don't think I turned out all that bad.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
If anyone has any questions regarding the matter of being raised by homosexuals, I can offer my personal expertise. I don't think I turned out all that bad.

Please share, i believe that is the spirit of this topic

Originally posted by Hopechest
Does a gay couple present the situations that a typical husband and wife do? Does a child lose out on anything without having a mom in the house per se?
Men are men regardless and visa versa.

We can cherry pick things like the OP is doing but we do need to discuss the larger picture.

In my larger picture of a 'normal' nuclear family, my ex-wife is a drug-abusing dingbat and dumped the kids. Talk about cherry-picking...good luck finding the Cleavers.

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Certainly there are many gay couples that perform their job of raising children to the highest level.

No question about that.

But as a society we should look at the overall impact.

Does a gay couple present the situations that a typical husband and wife do? Does a child lose out on anything without having a mom in the house per se?

Men are men regardless and visa versa.

We can cherry pick things like the OP is doing but we do need to discuss the larger picture.

These are all valid questions and points.

However, what about heterosexual examples like my own dear sister who is a single mother? My nephew has had no father figure in his life since he was about 1. He naturally has us uncles to look up to, and this is what he does. Do we think he is getting screwed up by not having his dad around? No. My sister does her utmost to look after him, sacrificing so much for him. The little fulla even won himself a scholarship to a very fancy private school last year. So, he is doing just fine and I am very proud of him as an uncle.

I think you are missing the point in that it is not only within the family that children have role models. Other people like teachers, preachers, uncles, aunts, family friends, even god forbid, tv characters these days all have influences on kids. I am not saying that there will ever be a better answer than a good old mum and dad family, but there are numerous families out there that get by just fine with just one gender as the parent in the home.

Gay parenting takes it to another level - you get 2 dads or 2 mums for the price of one. That's the main difference that I see in it all. But as I have said, let the members on here who have been raised by gay parents tell their stories.

They are where the actual truth of the matter lies.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
If anyone has any questions regarding the matter of being raised by homosexuals, I can offer my personal expertise.

I don't know the gender of yourself or your parents, so pardon my clumsiness.

Did you have outside role models of the opposite gender from your parents?
Did you "miss" having an opposite-gender parent? Or was single-gender parenting all you knew, so it seemed normal?
Did you have problems with 'coming of age' issues like menstruation and/or learning about sex/sexuality?
Were there issues you felt you couldn't approach your parents about because of their sexuality?
Did your parents try to turn you against the opposite gender?
Were you bullied because of your parents sexuality?
Do you support marriage equality?

I think that's all I have for now.

Originally posted by Romeo1
Well Im for kids haveing a loving family straight or gay.. but I do have an example of a negative..
I know a lesbian couple that are very very anti male...and they adopted a little girl.
You cannot tell me for an instant that they will not be imposing their views on men on that little girl. Now you say thats about what a regular straight couple do with their views.. however since this girl is now a young teen she has experimented with other girls and doesnt like it and proclaimed herself straight.
I doubt that she would have experimented with the same sex had she been brought up by a straight couple..(my opinion)
Is this bad...dont know I personally just dont like it..would she have experimented with same sex partner maybe...but I doubt it would have happened int high school..

just food for thought...

This is a perfectly valid point. And it is yet again more anecdotal evidence about sexual orientation not being a choice. While your story is nowhere enough evidence to support the claim that the couple raised the girl to think that she should be a lesbian, the scenario does sound believable.

However as your story ends up, the girl realises that it just aint going to work for her and she is a heterosexual after all. This is in spite of the implied social conditioning her parents gave her. It's almost like a reverse story of coming out actually.

Your scenario about the Lesbians being man hating and adopting a child and attempting to brainwash her could also be say a religious cult that adopts kids and brainwashes them into thinking it's leader is Jesus etc.

Neither of those scenarios are good. But what this tells me is that there is some fatal breakdown in the adoption process and that this couple should have been better checked out before being allowed to have a child. Extremism of any kind should be a big red flag for adoption agencies and these couples should not be allowed to have access to children.

reply to post by markosity1973

Originally posted by markosity1973
These are all valid questions and points.

I was talking with my husband about this last night and he brought light to what I think Hopechest was saying. And here's the question I wish Hopechest had asked:

With everything else being equal, does a child fare better in a two-gender parent home rather than a single-gender parent (or single parent) home? In other words, if all the parents were equally kind, loving, caring and met the child's needs equally, which is better for the child's well-being?

And I would have to say that, everything else being equal, if the child's needs are being equally met, then the child is going to grow up well-rounded and self confident. I honestly don't think it would make a difference. Good parents are good parents. I've seen some amazing people come out of single parent homes and gay parent homes. But most had a support system outside their parents, as the majority of us do. It all depends on how dedicated and committed the parents are to raising their child in a loving and nurturing home.

People with Single Parents

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Originally posted by markosity1973
These are all valid questions and points.

I was talking with my husband about this last night and he brought light to what I think Hopechest was saying. And here's the question I wish Hopechest had asked:

With everything else being equal, does a child fare better in a two-gender parent home rather than a single-gender parent (or single parent) home? In other words, if all the parents were equally kind, loving, caring and met the child's needs equally, which is better for the child's well-being?

And this is the great question this debate hopes to address. The modern nuclear family is actually a relatively new idea. Families used to be multigenerational and they had Ma, pa, Granny and Grandpa etc living in them.
Gay Aunts and Uncles were often 'spinsters' or unwed men whom lived in these families.

If we look at other non european socieites, children were often raised by a 'collective' rather than a single mother and father.

Here is an example from the Maori people in my home country of NZ

The Family Within the whanau the elementary family of parents and children was not very clearly defined as a structural unit. But there is good evidence that for many social purposes in everyday life, including much of the care of children, the elementary family was an operational group. Moreover, the fact that a person could inherit land rights from his mother as well as from his father meant a specification of ties in individual family terms and not a merging of them indiscriminately in the extended family. However, in residence, land rights, exchange of goods, and many other social and economic actions, the elementary family of parents and children did not stand out as a separate entity in the way characteristic of European family life. Traditional Maori society emphasised the rights and obligations of persons as members of village, whanau and hapu rather than as discrete individuals. Moreover, individuals were used at times in order to further group interests. Marriages were sometimes contracted on behalf of young people by their elders for political reasons. Again, adoption, a fairly common custom in traditional Maori society, often took place in order to revive or bind more closely kin ties among people who lived at a distance, sometimes with the object of renewing rights to land or maintaining connections for aid in war.

Source

I had very loving parents who were definitely involved in my life in every way...my choice to not discuss the issue was out of respect for them-what are you missing here? It wasn't because I couldn't talk to them...I CHOSE not to KNOWING it would just cause them pain....do not pretend to tell me what I went through, or how you "think" it should have gone....I am giving you a legitimate angle and am being told I have no validation due to "everyone got bullied"...so now bullying is ok somehow and I should just get over it? You claim I would have been bullied anyway, how do you know this? YOU DON'T...and there are too many variables to just dismiss the psychological damage that CAN be caused...
The teen years and sexuality are hard enough to deal with as it is....I am perfectly straight and quite annoyed with the FACT that I was told "to be honest with myself"....Or "I could be gay and it's ok"...it's just NOT funny when you KNOW you're straight or are at least trying to figure it out....not to mention very small, off-side comments to the contrary when I did start dating-they were never rude, just trying to be funny-in gay households the topics of discussion can be quite different-LOL.....my first date was a disaster, after the boy trying to advance the bases-LOL!! and me saying "No"....I was asked "Whattsa matter, going to be like your mom?" NO TEEN should ever have such a question directed at them....I would have NEVER been asked that if my parents were straight-so for someone to say that it's NOT due to my parents choices, I can assure you it WAS....and that one question is easy for an adult to analyze and answer-not so IN THE MIND OF A TEEN-it messes with you-big time...
The world is not the same in the eyes of adults and then in the eyes of children...you are asking kids to think like an adult about an issue that is surrounded by conflict-and no matter how "equal" you become, the majority see it differently and the one who suffers (albeit quietly so as not to hurt the parents because we DO love our parents) are inevitably the kids....
Seriously, stop thinking about this with your rational adult mind and think about it from the childs angle...If anyone speaks against any type of gay issue they are called homophobe, bigot. etc....how hard do you think it really is for kids of gay parents to actually speak up and say what they really feel without hurting the family????

reply to post by rockhndr


I don't know if you're talking to me or just people in general, but I never tried to tell you what you went through, nor did I invalidate your feelings. I'm also not asking kids to think like adults.

You clearly think being gay is a choice. I disagree and am voicing my opinion. Telling you how I think it should have gone, is also just my opinion.

Many kids have experiences that "mess with them". I was sexually abused at 5 and I was raped at 17. No child should ever have to deal with those experiences either, but these are unfortunate things that happen in life. I don't blame my parents for those things. I blame the people who actually perpetrated the pain.

Originally posted by rockhndr
how hard do you think it really is for kids of gay parents to actually speak up and say what they really feel without hurting the family????

About as hard as it is for any kid to speak up and say what they feel about their parents without hurting them.

Let me ask you this...IF you could save ONE child from going through those experiences you went through at 5 and 17...wouldn't you??? Why wouldn't I be any different??

In discussing this with the hubs and really re-reading some posts here....I have come to realize that what is needed is TIME.....Couldn't you guys just wait until we "breeders" get use to the idea of YOU first??? (I am kidding!!-even I KNOW you have a sense of humor ;-) I am 44 years old, so I admit this was back in the 80's...but I also have a 21 year old who I have helped muddle the mess of High School with the LGBT community.....Maybe once the stigma comes off the whole issue we can move forward?? But for now, it really IS difficult for these kids...that is all I was trying to say...You are right, everyone has a story to tell...but I just want to save one from going through what I did....I have not changed my mind, but I see a light at the end of the tunnel...I really repect your opinion Ben....but I respectfully disagree....for now

Originally posted by rockhndr


Let me ask you this...IF you could save ONE child from going through those experiences you went through at 5 and 17...wouldn't you??? Why wouldn't I be any different??

edit on 5-6-2013 by rockhndr because: re-thought my response...

I've got to say that I agree and disagree with you here. I agree in that I think that having gay parents may give school kids another weapon in their arsenal to pick on another kid. I also think that there could possibly be cases where parents would not allow little Johnny to be friends with Kev because his parents are gay and they don't want their kid being 'influenced' by him. I am not sure what has affected you so much, but it sounds like there are 2 really bad incidents that stand out in your life.

But if I think back to my own school life, I was bullied and rejected by my peers from age 11 because I was a new kid in town. The most popular boy in class decided he didn't like me because I was intelligent and therefore a threat to his top dog status and because I was catholic. I also entered puberty before anyone else in my class so that just gave them more ammo.

I have to say it was not until I got to high school that anyone picked on me for being gay and that was one isolated incident with one stupid bully. He actually got beat up by someone else because they thought he was gay himself the way he was acting. So karma got him good, lol.

So, kids will pick on another for all sorts of reasons and they can be absolutely horrible about it.

My great question to yourself and anyone else who has had a bad experience with gay parenting is this;

Do you think that your bad experience was caused by bad / neglectful / biased parenting, or was it caused by a lack of acceptance in greater society? i.e Is the problem in your case Gay parents doing a poor job of raising you, or ignorant kids with ignorant parents giving you are hard time because you are different because of your gay parents?

i don't know what you mean by 'Saving a Child', i was brought up by straight parents, and to described my experience would take at least a page, and a lot of brought up emotions i try not too

i don't believe anyone is attempting to disregard your experience, only that they happen in straight and gay homes, it says something about the dehumanization and intolerance that is taught, not only about homosexuals, but about races and gender etc