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The illusion of the self.

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posted on Jun, 4 2013 @ 01:45 AM
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The self is the experiencer of all you experience. The self is the subject. The self is the translator of infinite possibile perceptions into one finite,.defined perception that is always a reflection of the self, but not the self. The perception- the perceived is, once perceived, a creation from the self.

The self is not seen. It is the seer. It is not created. it is the creator. The illusion of the self is the self identity. The self is that which cannot be defined. It lies at the root, at the bottom looking up or top looking down, of your perceiving abilities. It looks forward from a place where there is no backwards. It is at the root. it is the seer. It cannot be seen. Therefore, anything you have ever believed your self to be is a delusion. Any definition is a self proclaimed creation, but you are not the creation, you are the creator. It is the ultimate illusion.




posted on Jun, 4 2013 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Short and sweet... Just the way I like it


Describing "self" to the community of ats is like describing the Universe and its galaxies to a blind man. It just confuses themm more, and goes no where from there. Few can or will understand what "self" actually is, where is came from, and its nature.

But I do appreciate your effort, as I love me some metaphysics.



posted on Jun, 4 2013 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by covertpanther
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Short and sweet... Just the way I like it


Describing "self" to the community of ats is like describing the Universe and its galaxies to a blind man. It just confuses themm more, and goes no where from there. Few can or will understand what "self" actually is, where is came from, and its nature.

But I do appreciate your effort, as I love me some metaphysics.


Theres nothing to describe about the self. The self has no manifest quality. It is only here, and you can know it is here because you know that you can know. But its not something that can be observed directly.



posted on Jun, 4 2013 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Lol now your just a rambling of a smart ass.. I am awake, and expanding. I have awakeing my kundalini and had many experiences. I know what self is - but you twisted what I said to entertain your ego, to seem like you know much about self, yourself lol.

Have you activated your light/astral body complex? Created the bridge to your higherself/higher consciousness?

As I said; I like things short and sweet brother



posted on Jun, 4 2013 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 

Originally posted by smithjustinb
The self is the experiencer of all you experience. The self is the subject. The self is the translator of infinite possibile perceptions into one finite,.defined perception that is always a reflection of the self, but not the self. The perception- the perceived is, once perceived, a creation from the self.

The self is not seen. It is the seer. It is not created. it is the creator. The illusion of the self is the self identity. The self is that which cannot be defined. It lies at the root, at the bottom looking up or top looking down, of your perceiving abilities. It looks forward from a place where there is no backwards. It is at the root. it is the seer. It cannot be seen. Therefore, anything you have ever believed your self to be is a delusion. Any definition is a self proclaimed creation, but you are not the creation, you are the creator. It is the ultimate illusion.
What you are describing is the observer function of the brain-mind complex. The observer function gets stimulated as a result of objects arising in the field of awareness. We tend to identify this function with self as it allows the subject to apparently and separately exist over against objects.

However, we are simply awareness, not the observer. This can be noted when there are no objects to observe - there is only awareness, not the observer. As fundamental awareness, we do not create anything, but witness that all conditions arise in and as modifications of consciousness (or awareness) itself.

So we are not separate from conditions (objects and others) as the observer is. Nor are we, as fundamental awareness, the creator of any conditions. Only the body-mind and other conditional objects and others create anything. Unconditional awareness or consciousness has no cause-and-effect relationship with conditions whatsoever. It is only in our identification with the observer function that we think we create objects, etc. and this can cause delusions relative to self.
edit on 6/4/2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2013 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


This thread is just repeating what has already been said here many times.

This is just preaching to people...



Ok, I am not my body. I am not my thoughts. I am not my emotions.


None, of that matters when the PAIN is still felt.

Denying thoughts, emotions, body will not stop the PAIN of the body and the SUFFERING of emotion from happening. Life still goes on.

Sorry if I sound a little hostile. I am not in my best mood - at least I'm being honest. Oh well, since I am not my emotions or thoughts I don't have to take responsibility for anything I say (feel/think) anyway...



posted on Jun, 4 2013 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by covertpanther
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I know what self is


Well what is it?



posted on Jun, 4 2013 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


This thread is just repeating what has already been said here many times.

This is just preaching to people...



Ok, I am not my body. I am not my thoughts. I am not my emotions.


None, of that matters when the PAIN is still felt.

Denying thoughts, emotions, body will not stop the PAIN of the body and the SUFFERING of emotion from happening. Life still goes on.

Sorry if I sound a little hostile. I am not in my best mood - at least I'm being honest. Oh well, since I am not my emotions or thoughts I don't have to take responsibility for anything I say (feel/think) anyway...


You will observe what you choose to observe. Theres no need to deny the observation. Without the experience, the experiencer serves no purpose. Attaching your self to an identity creates rules for the self to follow for the purpose of maintaining that identity. This is the cause of all suffering.



posted on Jun, 4 2013 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by bb23108
 


I agree with most of what you said except that which had to do with the differentiation between observer and awareness. I do not see a separation between the two and I do see a separation between the subject and the object. I believe the objects of the universe are also created by a subject, but one of a higher ordinance.

You said, "only the objects create". I disagree with this. We are in.a state where we identify with the object and.thereby lose our power. As awareness, we must experience the unfolding of our will. Your will needs to be my will. Once the observation is found to be intended, you are aware that you have intended it. This is the proper perspective. This is the realization that you are already consciously creating your desire. This is the desire of the true self vs. the desire of the illusory identity.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by covertpanther
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I know what self is


Well what is it?

It cannot be conveyed in words.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I agree. But the poster I was replying to seemed to indicate that he/she had a good definition of it, so I wanted to see if he/she was enlightened as he/she claimed to be.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I agree it cannot be conveyed into words - which is why its useless to even try.

Self is the ripple of the creator consciousness - that spreads out in infinte possiblities, simaltaniously to experience and expand, to learn and grow - until one upon a time it can unite back to its home - its original creator consciousness.

The self as we are calling it - does not communcate in langauge, does not have a vessel to contain it, does not think in lower patterns, does not feel in lower vibratorial states. It is all knowing, all stillness, all silent.. It is all.

See you cannot describe something so un-comprehenable to a lower-consciousness. A language that exists on just this planet, in just this one solar system, in just this one universe, cannot define or convey what self is.

Again; its like describing the universe and galaxies to a blind man.. Just doesnt make sense until you experience the higher state of consciousness yourself



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 11:52 PM
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Why do people tend to think that consciousness is the creator of anything? Consciousness is simply the Witness of all that arises. Yes, conditions are modifications of consciousness and are, in reality, not separate from consciousness, but consciousness does not create any conditions - it has no cause-and-effect relationship with conditions.

Other cause-and-effect conditions create the conditions currently appearing to us, and yes, various conditions and beings may even be "greater" or "higher" than these body-minds, but no one is ever in the position of the creator. To think one ultimately is the creator, is an effect of identifying with the point-of-view of the body-mind and its delusions.
edit on 6/5/2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by bb23108
Why do people tend to think that consciousness is the creator of anything? Consciousness is simply the Witness of all that arises. Yes, conditions are modifications of consciousness and are, in reality, not separate from consciousness, but consciousness does not create any conditions - it has no cause-and-effect relationship with conditions.


Consciousness first. Then will. Then the object. The object is seen after the will determines what will be seen. Every life form on earth is the way it is today because of a choice made.in the past. Even when subject to undesired individual circumstances, the reaction is chosen. Will creates. You have will. Your identity doesnt have will. Your identity limits will.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:13 AM
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Church of the Churchless Proselytizing ...I'm guilty of it as well.

It has it's place, and for some it's spot on and will get through to certain folks.

But there is fine line of things turning into Neo-Advaita "there's nothing you can do and no one who can do it-ness". That causes so many other issues as well such as the Mind justifying that everything is permissible cause there is no one here....

The question is, who is starting this thread and why? There comes a time when you are done, complete, finished, and there is no reason for posting......

.....like Buddha ...he didn't have to teach and said it can't be taught because it's beyond words....and yet he taught ....why?

There is sooooooooooooooooooo much more to all this .....so much more.........

edit to add:
reply to post by covertpanther
 



Have you activated your light/astral body complex? Created the bridge to your higherself/higher consciousness?

the above is why I said there is soooooooo much more to it all......

can you expand that covertpanther? Much appreciated. Thank you
edit on 6-6-2013 by dominicus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 
Any sense of will is a conditional modification of unconditional consciousness. Consciousness is not any such conditional modification. This can be recognized as truth when it is noticed that awareness or consciousness is never affected by anything conditional - in truth, all conditions are unnecessary modifications.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by bb23108
reply to post by smithjustinb
 
Any sense of will is a conditional modification of unconditional consciousness.


Will is not the modification, it is the modifier.


Consciousness is not any such conditional modification. This can be recognized as truth when it is noticed that awareness or consciousness is never affected by anything conditional - in truth, all conditions are unnecessary modifications.



I agree with this. well put.



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by dominicus
 


Originally posted by dominicus
But there is fine line of things turning into Neo-Advaita "there's nothing you can do and no one who can do it-ness". That causes so many other issues as well such as the Mind justifying that everything is permissible cause there is no one here....
Yes, it seems that many people use the argument that we are already enlightened, so any seeking is just more ignorance. However, they fail to see that they are already seeking and that such mental insights into non-dualism do not necessarily have a profound impact on the whole body-mind nor come close to generating the yogic signs that are evident when realization is the case.

This Neo-Advaitism seems to be more the Western man's "easy way" to God-Realization, but never fully undoes the actual egoic seeking of the whole body-mind.

In other words, the body-mind is conditioned to seek - it is already seeking and separate by tendency. To think that somehow doing nothing is not more seeking is equally deluded.

Real counter-egoic discipline, always in the context of Reality Itself, is absolutely necessary to counter the already seeking egoity of the body-mind-self.

Most new-age non-dualists seem to justify that self-discipline is not only unnecessary, but actually an obstruction to recognizing the truth. Plus, the Grace of Reality - however That appears - is absolutely required for true practice.
edit on 6/6/2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Originally posted by smithjustinb
Will is not the modification, it is the modifier.
But still, any sense of Will, is a conditional event or pattern, and therefore unnecessary - it is not unconditional consciousness. That sense of Will, if and when it arises, can be witnessed by awareness itself.
edit on 6/6/2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2013 @ 01:35 AM
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reply to post by bb23108
 


Bingo!!!!! Grace itself plays a visit from the realms of what I meant when I said there is sooooooo much more to this all.

You hit the nail on the head.

I was once, about 5-6 years back, deeply established in/as Awareness, expanded, effulgent, vivid and due to the daily grind, lost the established sense of it and was back in egoic illusion. So im sitting at this philosophy meeting/debate I used to attend, and a humble Buddhist guy, who I've seen countless times and never thought anything much of, leaned over to whisper something that had to do with the presentation........well his awareness was SOOoooooooo expanded that he light mine up like a candle and I was back to be established as That.

Grace visited via the Holy Spirit after being baptized about a decade back. Sooooo much more to all this.

Thumbs up and star





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