Public Atheist Monument Across from 10 Commandments

Originally posted by windword
In my experience an atheist HAS to defend their right to existence, their morality, their sanity and their science.

It seems the point I was trying to understand is not going to happen, so Id like to shift gears.

I agree that they have to defend these things. Everyone does, really.. including religious people. We all persecute each other.

I think that by simply defending these things though, that we skirt a real solution and devolve into division. By focusing on these things in a different way (i.e. what we can learn from each other, regardless of idealogy) I think it would start to approach a real solution instead of perpetuating a seemingly endless cycle. May or may not make sense, but you are more than welcome to ask questions about my perspective.

What do you mean by "their science?"

reply to post by Serdgiam

I think that by simply defending these things though, that we skirt a real solution and devolve into division. By focusing on these things in a different way (i.e. what we can learn from each other, regardless of idealogy) I think it would start to approach a real solution instead of perpetuating a seemingly endless cycle. May or may not make sense, but you are more than welcome to ask questions about my perspective.

I would agree with, if we lived in a perfect world. But, as long as we have religious zealots trying to force their viewpoints into our courts, schools, legislative bodies and doctors' offices, as per their religious mandates to convert and rule, we will never be able to have that civil discourse, as a society as a whole, but only as individuals.

To quote STING:

"Men grow crazy in congregations
They only get better one by one."

What do you mean by "their science?"

Evolution, Stem Cell Research, In Vitro, Genetic Engineering..........

Originally posted by Serdgiam

It truly saddens me. I wish the best for you, and hopefully, we can all eventually learn to work together equally.

Sorry I'll try harder.

What page are we on? I lose patience when discussion becomes circular.

Repetition is not my thing.

Originally posted by windword
I would agree with, if we lived in a perfect world. But, as long as we have religious zealots trying to force their viewpoints into our courts, schools, legislative bodies and doctors' offices, as per their religious mandates to convert and rule, we will never be able to have that civil discourse, as a society as a whole, but only as individuals.

It is my belief that the world we have is created by our own choices. We have a cultural story that no one questions, it is simply accepted. I feel that this cultural story has also been manipulated to serve a select few.

What I advocate is making a choice, on the individual level (as all choices are made), to approach things differently. It would *not* be a perfect world. There would still be many, many issues.

But, instead of perpetuating the cycle on the individual level, why dont we try to work towards an ideal? One that is determined by rationality and logic. Are we making decisions on the individual level that truly benefit us individually *and* as a whole? Perhaps in some regards, but the major issues, I do not feel we are!

To explain my position a bit better, I am of the mind that enabling everyone and making their very existence feel valuable, desired, and truly equal will lay a foundation where we can progress in the most logical way to benefit every single one of us. Think of how many ideas, inventions, and art that has been lost due to individuals being made to feel worthless and weak on the individual level. Whether it is done through resource control, religious control, economy control, societal control, etc it all has the same result.

I think a different way of looking at groups is that we are stronger when we work together, but that absolutely does not make us weak, worthless, or inferior (not equal) on the individual level. And if we are, in fact, stronger together as a group.. why do we not try to rationally work towards the best way to actually function as a team?

It will not change anyone who does not wish it, but for those who do want to work towards a better place for all of us, it seems almost imperative. And as it grows, those who remained on the fence will simply see that more progress, innovation, and equality simply exist as a matter of course. It benefits everyone on both the group level, and the individual level. As it grows further, even those who are only convinced by their own greed will see that by enabling your society at the individual level, it increases the quality of life for every single person involved. Including those at the top who are so afraid of losing their material accumulations.

This is only *my* view though, and it is the ideal I work towards. It is only one individual amongst many. I am not weak or inferior to others, but more and more working together will enable us all at every level, in a full circle/cycle.

In essence, it is consciously choosing what "endless" cycle we wish to perpetuate. Why are we only relegated to "sticking with what we know?" The very notion bothers me as a scientist.

TL;DR: Why arent we using the scientific method to explore the best way to work together as a team and as a society?

What do you mean by "their science?"

Evolution, Stem Cell Research, In Vitro, Genetic Engineering..........

I am not so sure those are relegated to any people of any belief systems. While some systems may be against it, that does not mean (in my mind) that those who are against those religions are able to claim such things as their own. Either way, I am not sure it is even relevant as long as we are learning, growing, and working towards better things.

Hope all that makes sense. Feel free to ask questions, just as I have towards you. We can all learn from each other.

I wont even acknowledge the Sting quote! Wait..
Damnit..

Originally posted by Annee
Repetition is not my thing.

Repetition is everyones thing.

We operate on cycles, even at the base level of our bodies and even the electronic devices we use. Everything from the human heart to the CPU operates on a repeated, logical cycle.

In your case, Annee, do you happen to participate in the same topics of discussion here at ATS? Judging by what you say in this post, it might lead one to believe this is the first discussion you have participated in regards to religion.

I get it though, on certain scales and levels, the repetition is difficult to work through when we always approach it the same way. I will learn from it as well, and try better next time. As I would surely continue to repeat what I have already tried. Just means we both might have areas to grow.

Originally posted by Serdgiam
Annee, do you happen to participate in the same topics of discussion here at ATS? Judging by what you say in this post, it might lead one to believe this is the first discussion you have participated in regards to religion.

I post what I know. If I haven't experienced it in some way or researched it, I don't post.

I am 67. I was raised Christian and also in the power of positive thinking church of Norman Vincent Peale, as my mom was one of his original members.

I was also raised with paranormal type beliefs as early as the 50s, before the term "New Age" was ever invented.

I mistook my paranormal experiences as a connection to god. I went to many different Christian churches over the years trying to find the right fit. I searched for truth in Christianity. Factually, there is none. I was also Mormon for 5 years.

It is my search for truth in Christianity that resulted in atheism.

I've also dabbled in many other beliefs.

I worked at a place where I was the minority being straight. I learned a lot from my gay co-workers and began research on homosexuality about 20 years ago. They're just people.

Anything else?

Originally posted by Annee
Anything else?

Are those the answers to the questions you would have me ask?

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by Annee
Anything else?

Are those the answers to the questions you would have me ask?

That's just my basic background.

AND I had to be ready to go to dinner at a specific time . Which is now.

Ask whatever you want. Will answer when I can.

Originally posted by Annee
Ask whatever you want. Will answer when I can.

I am here for discourse with others, and not necessarily to interview others.

You have still shown no interest in having an actual conversation. It feels like I am being used as a platform to announce and vocalize your agenda and items of your own interest.

I have no doubt there are plenty who love that type of conversation, but its not particularly my thing. Like always, feel free to correct me if I am wrong (a test of sorts). But as for now, I will need to take a step back and learn a bit. You are free to do as you wish, of course.

reply to post by Annee


In that vein, how along until religion is the oppressed minority? What will happen then?