Public Atheist Monument Across from 10 Commandments

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by windword

 

This seems ridiculous—Sue people for putting up religious monuments but then put up your own religious monument.

The American Atheists are a religious organization seeking to put up a religious monument in honor of their "church" in a public place. They too should be sued. This group promotes and provides information on "atheism", as if their position on God was any different from any other position on God. Pure double-standards and religiosity is what I see here.

A sensible response on ATS? Woah!!!

Thank you.

That was awesome.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by sinthia

 

Atheism is not a religion. It is a lack of belief in a deity. There is no belief or religion involved in atheist. An individual person chooses to identify as an atheist. There is no conversion or anything of that nature.

It's not a religion, but it's still a faith based on a belief that there isn't a god or afterlife.

The wonderful irony of atheism.

Now they need their own monuments to re-affirm their faith.

What next, churches?

Originally posted by Beavers

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by sinthia

 

Atheism is not a religion. It is a lack of belief in a deity. There is no belief or religion involved in atheist. An individual person chooses to identify as an atheist. There is no conversion or anything of that nature.

It's not a religion, but it's still a faith based on a belief that there isn't a god or afterlife.

The wonderful irony of atheism.

Now they need their own monuments to re-affirm their faith.

What next, churches?

Originally posted by Glass
This Atheist association should absolutely be regarded as a religion since it is a group based on a particular set of beliefs regarding a deity or deities, i.e. the belief that no deity exists.

This is why I don't want the monuments.

People don't understand what Atheism is, and a monument espousing what atheists 'believe' confuses the easily confused.

Atheism is not the belief that no deity exists.
Atheism is the rejection of belief that deities exist.

Atheism in not a belief, it is a lack of belief.

This is Atheism - I do not believe in God.
This is not Atheism - I believe there is no God.

Stop trying to tell us what we believe, this is about what we do NOT believe.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Why would they need to politicize an organization to hand out pamphlets on "atheism"?

Any "ism" is an ideal. Communism, capitalism, fascism etc. When it's an ideal that concerns itself only with religion—Jainism, Sufism, Buddhism,etc—and sells itself as an 'ism', makes t-shirts, billboards, Darwin fishes, political groups to put up monuments, holds meeting, has faith only in a certain literature and resorts to outright dogmatism—you better believe it is a religion.

Where does one write "atheist" on the census? It is not a job title; it is not a position in a certain tax bracket; it is not a race; it is a position strictly within the realm of religion.

Atheism amounts to a stance on God. It has no other ideal to sell. No other reason to politicize. Yet Atheists, under the banner of "Atheism", are out there selling it, doing the exact same things as religion for whatever reason.

I understand what you're saying, but in my mind, all signs point to atheism being a religion.

I'm an atheist. I have nothing to do with this group and find their actions to be quite amusing. They say they are atheists but they are not. A true atheist would ignore things -- such as monuments -- that deal with theism. Their opposition to things of a theistic nature proves that they have doubts about their beliefs. All of these activist "Atheist" groups are actually Agnostic activist groups. They lobby and complain because they have no evidence of a deity. They lobby and complain because theistic rituals and artifacts offend them.

Atheism is a simple concept. The lack of a belief in the existence of a deity. It has no stance. It has no position within the realms of religion. In fact, an atheist can be a follower of certain religions. You mentioned Buddhism. Buddhism as taught by the Buddha is a philosophy. There was no mention of any deities in its original form. I could give other examples but I believe I've gotten my point across.

I also have to agree with another poster who said this planned monument does not speak for all atheists. This organization certainly does not speak for me. Nor does any other "Atheist" organization. It is a personal matter and nothing more. The only quotes on their planned monument that I find appropriate is the quote by John Adams and the quote from the Tripoli Treaty. The first quote, in particular, is antagonistic in its essence and designed to create conflict. In addition, what does lack of a belief in deities have to do with conquering disease, banishing poverty, or eliminating war? Nothing whatsoever. The addition of that quote is nothing more than commercialization of the organizations beliefs coupled with stroking the ego and vanity of its members.

American Atheists seem to be secular humanists; not atheists or agnostics.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Stop trying to tell us what we believe, this is about what we do NOT believe.

edit on 2-6-2013 by MichaelPMaccabee because: (no reason given)

təˈmɛɪto / təˈmæto

It never fails it seems there will always be those who are hard at work trying to redefine Atheism as a religion.

From my time on here discussing the subject in depth their motivations for that standpoint range from

1. Placing them on equal footing.
2. A lack of education on the matter.
3. An inability to comprehend how there are those who do not need religion.
4. Willful ignorance. ( I could elaborate but will not)
5. They are just looking for an argument.
Of course there are more but those seem to be the main ones. Number one I will elaborate a little on.

See if they can get people to except that atheism is a religion then they can compete with it. Let’s face it Christianity has gotten the upper hand on other religions in the past they know how to compete and sell their product but with atheism they don’t know what to do. The old my god is better than yours just doesn’t work ( over simplified) on atheists it simply can’t sway us. As misguided as it is they believe that by labeling atheism as a religion it would somehow change the playing field but the problem is they don’t understand we are not playing at all.

Groups like American atheists confuse them because it is organized and they equate organization with religion. I see how they have come to that conclusion however it is extremely flawed. Some of them also believe that Atheists should be anti-social with no sense of community or that a sense of community is only compatible with those who have religion again there view is extremely flawed. To put it simply that just can’t comprehend that atheism is simply a descriptive term if the word did not exist we would just be called not religious just like they are called religious the word not would be in front of our names. We do not call them not Atheists we simply call them religious we are called atheists.

My post probably just confused the hell out of many of them.

To surmise most of those who believe Atheism is a religion is one form or another of ignorance but there are some who know better but push the idea with an agenda in mind.

edit to add

Unfortunately some atheists do not understand the need for organizations like the one who erected the statue in fact many of them believe that there is a certain way all atheists should act which in my opinion is like them preaching to others on how to be a proper atheist. They do not realize it but many of them have become the thing that they oppose unwittingly.

The organization put up the monument to oppose the notion that America is a Christian nation like in my other post it is like a big middle finger to them but instead it has quotes from the likes of John Adams it shows that there is a separation of church and state or there is supposed to be anyway and since the church group that placed the Ten Commandments there has declined to remove it there is now an opposing view to theirs to balance the scales. IMO it would be better if there were no monuments there however that was not possible so now we have two which shows there are opposing views as to what this country is founded on.

AS Windword said until this country stops discriminating against those who are not religious there will be a need for organizations such as American Atheists to at least try to balance the scales.


I always find it funny when a self-professed atheists states I am being an Atheist wrong it is like they themselves do not even understand that Atheism is a descriptive term as I have already gone into in this thread. OH well…..American Atheist or any Atheist group does not claim to speak for all Atheists but they do speak for themselves and the group is run and or managed by people who are also atheists. Sometime I agree with their position other times I do not I feel the same way about the NRA because I am a gun owner as well but not a member of the NRA I hope the parallel I just described helps people understand a little better.

American Atheists is not a church t is an organization the same way the NRA is.

[Ei]reply to post by Grimpachi


My only argument is that atheism leaves just as many questions unanswered as any religion. And there are very real ideas that religions seem to approach that science doesn't seem inclined to explore, to the detriment of our self-understanding. Reincarnation, the ether realms, higher consciousness, psychic phenomena, psionics, sacred geometry...these are all fascinating studies that appear to be largely ignored by atheism. I feel that if they were genuinely explored, we would begin to establish a deeper understanding of our interactivity in this reality.

With that said, I fully support the placement of this atheist monument. It's only fair, really.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I think you are confused about what Atheism is or maybe I am confused about your post.

As I explained Atheism is a descriptive term that is interchangeable with the words not religious.

Even though there are groups comprised of atheists they are not like a church group instead they are like the NRA an organization.

Just like I am a gun owner it doesn’t mean I am a NRA member but I could join f I wanted to but it wouldn’t mean I had to always agree with them if I did.

As an Atheist there are no principles that say I need to act a certain way or believe in any theories it just means I am not religious. I don’t believe in deity’s nothing more.

There are those who try to make it into more but it isn’t and will not be.

I think you may be getting science mixed up with atheists while may in the science community are atheists many are also religious as well they can be exclusive or complementary but there is no set of rules to follow. In other words don’t expect atheists to adopt any dogma however it certainly seems like some have but that isn’t accredited to being an atheist it’s just something they share and they happen to be atheists as well.
Maybe I cleared that up..maybe not.

add

As for myself I am fine with many questions being un-answered I have little or no desire to have them answered I am busy with living my life. The only thing that makes me an atheist is that I don’t believe in deities or another way to put it is I am not religious.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Religion -requires- a deity

Buddhism. Confucianism. Taoism.

All of the same. technically a religion, no qualification for it.

I considered that before typing, Buddhism has a spiritual identification that transcends the body and is one with the source or some such (god?). Taoism has deities mind you. I don't know enough about Confucianism..outside of it being just full of nifty sayings.
grape in middle of the road will get smashed

Originally posted by Beavers
It's not a religion, but it's still a faith based on a belief that there isn't a god or afterlife.

The wonderful irony of atheism.

Now they need their own monuments to re-affirm their faith.

What next, churches?

Incorrect
-10 points, back 3 spaces

There very well could be a god, or 20..or 1000 gods.
But until evidence comes forward of em, then whats the point in having belief?

There could also possibly be a big fat gold vein under my house
Does that mean then I should automatically believe a giant gold vein is under my house?
Should I dig my house up because of a possibility?

Naa..will wait for evidence to support such a claim before grabbing the shovel.


Atheism has no official stance on a afterlife, aliens, pizza toppings, unicorns, global warming, time lords, Beiber hair styles, or anything other than a simple observation of no evidence for deities..thats it.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
As an Atheist there are no principles that say I need to act a certain way or believe in any theories

Well, except for the bi-monthly baby eating for its youthful vitality ceremony anyhow you mean...
Gotta attend those for the atom insignia jacket.

The quote on the stone to the right is:

"An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that deed must be done instead of prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished, war eliminated."

Somebody needs to tell atheists that Christians believe those things too.

Originally posted by sinthia
Why shouldn't atheists have their own monument, atheism is just as much a religion as any other. These fundamentalist atheists often put in more effort in their believing in a negative as believers believing in a God. Laughable really. It will be a monument to foolishness. God will have the last laugh.

Here is the rub - they did not want it there. For some reason, or another, they had a "problem" with simple instructions like - not stealing, not lying, not banging your neighbor's wife, etc. and etc.

They thought these instructions would be bad for homosexual children or something or another (yeah - those 8 year old Boy Scouts). So ... when they could not have it removed, they mirrored the monument.

But let's not forget ... they tried to remove it.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by sinthia

 

Atheism is not a religion. It is a lack of belief in a deity. There is no belief or religion involved in atheist. An individual person chooses to identify as an atheist. There is no conversion or anything of that nature.

I don't believe you. And, I want my monument stating that I don't believe you.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by windword

 

Yeah your right those darn rules and tastes get in the way of the message sometimes but with a little contemplation most people get the gist of it.

I just watched the movie Revisionaries and I am still a little worked up about it. I really feel sorry for kids today because the religious right has seriously put them at a disadvantage in the world by denying them a good education. There is a reason for separation of church and state and it is a good reason however the imbeciles have no problem finding a flock to follow their lead in this country. The worst part is that they actually believe they are doing a good thing by mixing their religion with government. They are not bad people just stupid people.

Wait a second .... are you seriously claiming that a public school has a better educational program than a private Catholic Parochial School?

Seriously?



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .... oh, sorry ... excuse me ... lost my composure there for a minute ....

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
The quote on the stone to the right is:

"An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that deed must be done instead of prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanished, war eliminated."

Somebody needs to tell atheists that Christians believe those things too.

No, they should say nothing. Atheists believe there are no Hospitals or Universities ever founded based on religion.

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


Well, it's your choice not to believe me. But I speak the truth. Atheism is just a lack of belief in a deity and I do not need a monument.

Atheism worships oneself in place of God. Compare the deathbed testimonials of Atheists and Christians, no really, then make your decision. Because at that point, mocking statues and pursuing all the temporary self serving Atheistic ideals of this life will do you no good when your on your deathbed. So have your statues and monuments, because they wont take the joy out of my life.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by GeisterFahrer

 

Well, it's your choice not to believe me. But I speak the truth. Atheism is just a lack of belief in a deity and I do not need a monument.

I was being facetious - not trying to hurt your feelings. I would much rather have a monument declaring my "group's" belief that we do not believe atheists exist. Kind of off to the side - or even in the middle of the two monuments already there.

I am not sure what we would call our group though. I am open to suggestions.

reply to post by Beavers


It seems you do not know the definition of the word faith. Being an atheist I have a lack of belief or lack of faith in a deity. Having faith is more of a belief in a deity or even people. I guess that will explain politics and politicians.