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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword
No one is trying to stop this group, the "Men's Christian Fellowship", from expressing their beliefs or putting up billboards or monuments. They just need to do so on private property, not public property. Public property is owned by the people, ie the government, and the government doesn't endorse or promote any religion.
The 10 Commandments are a religious document that declares it is God's final word. It isn't.
Would you say the same if an atheist monument or billboard were placed on public ground? Is this really about legal red tape, or your personal feelings towards religion?
There is an atheist monument being put on public property, for the very first time EVER in the USA! That's what this thread is about.
What is it about the atheist's monument that YOU find so offensive?
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword
But the 10 Commandments in public schools or in courtrooms is a step too far. IMO
But we can teach the tenets of almost every other religion, right? I mean, Hinduism and Nordic and Aztec and Greek and Roman religions are all taught, right? We have no problem mentioning Zeus or Odin or Loki or Quetzlcoatl or Shiva, right? So what's wrong with including Christianity in the cultural curriculum?
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword
But the 10 Commandments in public schools or in courtrooms is a step too far. IMO
But we can teach the tenets of almost every other religion, right? I mean, Hinduism and Nordic and Aztec and Greek and Roman religions are all taught, right? We have no problem mentioning Zeus or Odin or Loki or Quetzlcoatl or Shiva, right? So what's wrong with including Christianity in the cultural curriculum?
My history classes included parts of Christianity especially during the roman times. I do not remember being taught to worshipers or how to practice Hinduism so I do not see your point nor do I think it is valid.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword
There is an atheist monument being put on public property, for the very first time EVER in the USA! That's what this thread is about.
What is it about the atheist's monument that YOU find so offensive?
If you read all of my posts in this thread, you will find that I have quite clearly stated my support for both monuments. I am questioning your distaste for the Christian monument, since you don't seem to care about the atheist one.
I don't see the monument featuring the 10 commandments "trying" to do anything except honor a religion that a significant percentage of our nation follows and the rest certainly recognize and acknowledge.
then I don't see why they can't erect a monument in the spirit of their beliefs.
A number of local parks here have statues and plaques and monuments honoring the fallen soldiers of almost every war our nation has been a part of.
Clearly, the monument hasn't changed any policies or directly influenced legislation and educational curriculum. Any influence is happening with or without that monument in existence.
And this is justification for removing or demeaning the Christian monument?
Just because you disagree doesn't mean you should destroy something.
So it honors Christianity on public property.
I do.
So they Honor those who fought for the country and were in respect part of the government and they are doing so on government property. Government statues of government employees in government affairs that seems like those would be compatible.
Have you watched the movie Revisionaries?
I do not find it demeaning in the slightest but that is a matter of opinion. Is your opinion more important than mine should all opinions be considered? If I said I find the monument to the 10 commandments as offensive should that be considered as well?
The article said they tried to have them remove it from public property can you show us where they wanted it destroyed?
Do you think you might just be using a bit too much hyperbole when talking about this?
Originally posted by windword
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword
No one is trying to stop this group, the "Men's Christian Fellowship", from expressing their beliefs or putting up billboards or monuments. They just need to do so on private property, not public property. Public property is owned by the people, ie the government, and the government doesn't endorse or promote any religion.
The 10 Commandments are a religious document that declares it is God's final word. It isn't.
Would you say the same if an atheist monument or billboard were placed on public ground? Is this really about legal red tape, or your personal feelings towards religion?
There is an atheist monument being put on public property, for the very first time EVER in the USA! That's what this thread is about.
What is it about the atheist's monument that YOU find so offensive?
Basically, they wanted it more obscured. Had it been anything else, no one would have cared.
Originally posted by windword
Originally posted by GeisterFahrer
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword
So you're saying that whomever erected that Christian monument had no right to do so?
That is exactly what the sentiment is behind the attempt to remove it.
Atheists are not about intellectual freedom, they are about "think the way we do, we don't like you guys".
It is hate under a different guise is all.
No one is trying to stop this group, the "Men's Christian Fellowship", from expressing their beliefs or putting up billboards or monuments. They just need to do so on private property, not public property. Public property is owned by the people, ie the government, and the government doesn't endorse or promote any religion.
The 10 Commandments are a religious document that declares it is God's final word. It isn't.
Sounds like insecurity to me.
And atheism is too?
Nope. And I'm sure it's dramatized anyway.
You are certainly allowed to express that opinion. But I wouldn't think it a very good reason to protest the monument considering Christians don't appreciate the atheist one - which you've so far neglected to protest as well.
Destroyed, removed, hidden. Basically, they wanted it more obscured. Had it been anything else, no one would have cared.
perhaps that the atheist group that erected this monument tried to remove another group's right to free speech?
Originally posted by windword
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword
But the 10 Commandments in public schools or in courtrooms is a step too far. IMO
But we can teach the tenets of almost every other religion, right? I mean, Hinduism and Nordic and Aztec and Greek and Roman religions are all taught, right? We have no problem mentioning Zeus or Odin or Loki or Quetzlcoatl or Shiva, right? So what's wrong with including Christianity in the cultural curriculum?
It is! Where is your source that Christianity is excluded from any class curriculum in world religion? If there is a class on Greek Mythology, do you think that the Bible is being excluded?
Most of World History in high school, as I remember it, was Christian inclusive. But the classes didn't teach Christianity as a truth.
Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GeisterFahrer
perhaps that the atheist group that erected this monument tried to remove another group's right to free speech?
This isn't a "free speech" issue. Never was. It's a "separation of church and state" issue.
Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GeisterFahrer
It arguable, that when a religion's doctrine is displayed on government property, on the authority of government officials, that that monument is a governmental endorsement of said religion.
edit on 6-6-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)
Exactly, because that is the atheist POV that is being taught as truth.
Originally posted by GeisterFahrer
Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GeisterFahrer
It arguable, that when a religion's doctrine is displayed on government property, on the authority of government officials, that that monument is a governmental endorsement of said religion.
There is no government requirement for you to accept the doctrine. However ... in public schools ... is it a requirement to ... oh, never mind.
Should children start introducing themselves as recruits?edit on 6-6-2013 by GeisterFahrer because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GeisterFahrer
Exactly, because that is the atheist POV that is being taught as truth.
That is just not true. Show me the public school curriculum that teaches children that there is no evidence of a god.