Woman Fatally Shot by Police at Cosco Handing Out Pizza Samples.

reply to post by Bedlam


I see your point. And in all honesty I'm playing an armchair cop here. But what's strange is how I wonder cops in Britain deal with knife threats like this. I know they have strict knife laws, but cmon' your going to get the occasional case of someone grabbing butcher knife and going after somebody.

I guess we just have to wait and see if there's any video footage.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


I know this is not the best source, but according to wiki, cops in England only carry firearms on special occasions, when the situation calls for it.

en.wikipedia.org...


So what happens when a cop in Britain doesn't have access to the special operations unit that carries firearms?

Does he run away? Cmon.

Edit: Here's a BBC article on it:

www.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by shaneslaughta

There have to be a few dozen cameras in Costco, more than likely there are a few angles of the incident.

I doubt the world will ever see the videos.

Unfortunately many businesses don't have great camera systems. I worked asset protection for a few companies and would sometimes hangout with AP guys in different companies, and in most cases at least half the cameras were fake. I also don't think Costco takes security all that seriously, back in the day they only had one plainclothes guy. They control shrink at the front door pretty well with the receipt checking.

Originally posted by litterbaux
If the officer felt his life was in danger by a 38 year old woman with a knife, he should have shot her in the leg.

There is no reason to shoot to kill. If she was brandishing a firearm, sure. The fact is, she had a knife and sounds mentally unstable. No reason to end her life.

I always put this in the same category as the "shoot the gun out of his hand" comment. If she's not running at you, there's probably time to do something other than shoot. If she IS running at you, you don't have time to aim at legs. And of course, the question is, even if I do get a muscle wound in her leg, is she going to be disabled? If she's coming at me at a run I won't have the time to aim at her moving legs and hit one, if I manage it, wait and evaluate if she's going to fall or keep coming, regain the sight picture, and shoot again. Nope, I'd go for center mass x 2.

Originally posted by litterbaux
If the officer felt his life was in danger by a 38 year old woman with a knife, he should have shot her in the leg.

You can shoot someone in the leg, and the bullet can travel to the heart. A bullet can bounce around in a body. A bullet can sever artery's. You can bleed out in less then a minute.

Imagine if this lady would have been able to strike one of these officers with the weapons she had. How quickly do you think someone can bleed out from a knife wound?

When a situation ONLY lasts minutes its hard to judge those in that situation.

In those seconds, you can lose your life.

I am glad I wasn't in that situation. Glad I didn't have to use a weapon, and glad I didn't have to kill anyone. It sucks but people are unpredictable.

Originally posted by ColeYounger

Cops are on record having said things like "They don't pay me enough to risk my ass." It's easier to just shoot the pizza sample lady. They know they'll get away with it.

edit on 1-6-2013 by ColeYounger because: spelling

edit on 1-6-2013 by ColeYounger because: (no reason given)

It is a sad state of affairs.

In the old days, I remember many cops expressing their intent to protect and to serve, and to uphold the rights of citizens, and to bring people to justice.

Today, cops are more worried about protecting themselves rather than upholding others rights, and usually deliver justice themselves.

What would have happened in the past with the soldiers that fought and died for our rights, said screw this and walked away? Should those soldiers have looked out for themselves and walked away?

Originally posted by litterbaux
If the officer felt his life was in danger by a 38 year old woman with a knife, he should have shot her in the leg.

There is no reason to shoot to kill. If she was brandishing a firearm, sure. The fact is, she had a knife and sounds mentally unstable. No reason to end her life.

There's one in every thread. The ONLY police force I've ever heard of that actually allows this as SOP is the GIGN which is a HIGHLY specialized unit.

If you are going to shoot a gun at someone you are only allowed to do so if you intend on killing them. You are in such a bad spot that the only option is to kill them.

A leg shot can easily kill someone. If you miss and hit to high you can easily kill someone. SHoot to kill or don't shoot at all.

The police managed to shoot themselves in the process. If they aren't even careful firing off weapons in the presence of each other imagine how bad this Could have been. 5 rounds for one woman, this is a gross display of power.

The second deputy was wounded, possibly when a bullet ricocheted and hit his leg. He is expected to recover.

Sour ce

Originally posted by litterbaux
The police managed to shoot themselves in the process. If they aren't even careful firing off weapons in the presence of each other imagine how bad this Could have been.

Not sure how you preplan a ricochet. It's an unpredictable hazard.

reply to post by Bedlam


Maybe you can abstain from firing your weapon in a costco. Maybe its silly, I know.

reply to post by Domo1

That depends on the round. I carry a .357 Magnum when I carry, for the simple reason that even if I don't drop my target with the first shot, any hit will push him back a few feet... allowing me time to squeeze off another round if needed. Now, a .380 or even a 9mm may be as you say.

I will have to disagree with you that 5 shots is reasonable. I have trained myself if needed in self-defense to fire off two in quick succession, simply in case the first misses. When hunting, I fire off one single round. The only case where i could see myself firing five rounds in quick succession would be something like paintball, where those extra rounds are not lethal and might accidentally hit a moving target... or if the first two shots didn't take the target down.

I believe one or two shots to an untrained 28 year old mother would have taken her down. This was not a sniper situation; she was in a break room, which is not huge. So why keep firing? Stock in Remington?

TheRedneck

One problem with multiple weapons of different lethal level has been displayed in the past when a officer thought he pulled a tazer but shot a person with his service weapon.

A thread here somewhere, I believe.

Originally posted by litterbaux
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Maybe you can abstain from firing your weapon in a costco. Maybe its silly, I know.

Are you just going to let her go after other people? Or let her slice you a good one?

It's sort of their job not to let her continue to be a hazard to others. And from that standpoint, if you came at me in a brisk and determined fashion with a good sized knife, well, I'd shoot, too.

In the movies, I'm sure Seagal would give her a crushing kaiten nage and slap the butt of her hand causing the knife to spin a few times and end up in the celotex. Jackie Chan could likely wheel kick the knife out of her hand and it would end up in a display in some comical place.

In real life, I'm not going to try shooting it out of your hand, or shooting your foot, or foot sweeping you, I'm going to fire for effect. All that other stuff is movie fodder. IRL, you can get hurt real bad by someone with a blade.

Like I've said, if she's just sort of wandering around with it in her hand not doing anything all that aggressive, then's when you have other options. Not when she's charging you.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I believe one or two shots to an untrained 28 year old mother would have taken her down. This was not a sniper situation; she was in a break room, which is not huge. So why keep firing? Stock in Remington?

TheRedneck

Adrenaline, panic, and/or you missed the first three times. I'm going for all three.

reply to post by Bedlam

The normal human response to being shot is terror, not aggression; flight, not fight. The ones you see on TV charging the cop after being shot are hardened criminals. Adrenaline and panic leading to charging the officer is highly doubtful (although I will admit to the slight possibility).

If he missed the first three times in a break room, the guy needs to hang up his uniform and gun and get a slingshot.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by roadgravel
One problem with multiple weapons of different lethal level has been displayed in the past when a officer thought he pulled a tazer but shot a person with his service weapon.

A thread here somewhere, I believe.

How? Not that i want to read the thread but how? Two different styles of weapon different grips no sights

How can you mistakenly draw your pistol instead of a taser located in a different holster?

Originally posted by TheRedneck

If he missed the first three times in a break room, the guy needs to hang up his uniform and gun and get a slingshot.

TheRedneck

Thats basically how i feel, how can you miss in a room, likely less than 15 feet deep?

Originally posted by intrepid
No win situation for the cops here on ATS. The source says:

Scott reportedly became upset when she ran out of pizza, reported Northern Virginia Bureau Chief Julie Carey. Witnesses said she was waving a knife and scissors, threatening employees.

They used a stun gun first then a firearm. If they hadn't and an innocent was stabbed in the neck and died those here critical of the cops would then be saying they weren't doing their job.

C'mon, they couldn't shoot her in the leg? Or try and take the knife from her? They had to have known more about hand to hand than this lady. Or use your baton, and break her wrist, anything but kill her. You're right, this is a no win situation for the cops because all they know how to do act first, and don't want to think. Personally, I think the cops were scared as usual, and panicked.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


Here is one.

Cop on Train Shooting: I Mistook Gun for Taser

A former San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit police officer testified Friday that he mistakenly pulled out his pistol instead of a stun gun when he shot and killed an unarmed black man who was lying face down on an Oakland train platform last year.

www.cbsnews.com...

Let's look at it like this... The woman (according to witnesses) was Jeckle one minute and Hyde the next. Is it possible that she may have been under the influence of drugs. Look at her agitation, no listening to commands by LE, being resistant to the taser. It does seem possible. I have seen people under the influence of meth have superhuman strength and resistance to pain. I have seen a 110lbs. person require 8 large firemen to hold them down. Now if this person had a scissors and a knife, how much more dangerous would this be. Do we really think bean bags or rubber bullets would stop someone with hightened strength and pain resistance?

Training is meant to fit every situation be it a 140lbs. woman or a 250lbs. man. The training is meant to be a standard means to respond in a spectrum of situations. The "use of force continuum" is that guideline. It starts from the least invasive to the most invasive.

I often wonder about people who condem the police. Is it from personal experience? The fact is, the same people who chastise the police are most times the same who call for help when they are robbed or assulted. The think the officers (who live in the same community) are part of a grand conspiracy to enslave the community. lol.

Some of you people are so far down the rabbit hole, you can't see the light of truth.