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Little Boy Discovers Meat Is Murder; Makes His Mom Cry..

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posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 

chimps and apes are not the same. besides, you are engaging in the logical fallacy known as an "appeal to nature".

humans have superior reasoning abilities, and one would think we'd use them to end as much suffering as possible.




posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 

chimps and apes are not the same. besides, you are engaging in the logical fallacy known as an "appeal to nature".

humans have superior reasoning abilities, and one would think we'd use them to end as much suffering as possible.


wrong, see this wiki.Chimpanzee




Chimpanzee, sometimes colloquially chimp, is the common name for the two extant hominid species of apes in the genus Pan. The Congo River forms the boundary between the native habitats of the two species:[2]




and chimps reason pretty damn good.
edit on 1-6-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by HelenConway

Our mouths have far more molars for grinding grains and vegetables, just like our cousins the other apes.
Please refer to pictures earlier in thread


You mean like the chimpanzee? That hunts out living prey? Our closest ancestor?
edit on 1-6-2013 by Hollie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 10:22 PM
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I hung out with some vegans for about a month when traveling. I tried to survive of what they ate it felt like my entire body went into shock after the 2nd week. I felt horrible but it was soon remedied by the nearest steakhouse however it took about another week till I felt right again. I can and do eat more vegies as part of my diet now but my body was not meant to survive without meat so for all of you who have made the change into mainly herbivores that is fine with me more power to you I tend to see that as advantageous for myself. I shouldn’t have to wait as long in line for a good seat at the steakhouse because you will be somewhere else.

Thanks guys.



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 

sorry, got "apes" mixed up with "gorillas".

my point still stands though, you committed the appeal to nature fallacy.



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 10:23 PM
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I do not understand any of you really. Since I have disassociated myself from the grocers, I have never, and mean NEVER allowed one of my living meat animals to suffer. I do not know of any backyard grower that abuses and allows their food source to suffer. Why don't you simply encourage people to grow their own or hunt their meat? You aren't going to ever win an argument about whether or not a human should consume meat or not. All you see is that factory farming garbage anyway. Just because people eat meat does not mean the animal suffers. Get it yet?

If you want to end animal suffering, try bringing the food source back into the home grower and teaching people to be sustainable. How about trying to educate your blind youth that veggies grow from actual dirt, and that meat can be humanely raised with no suffering by growing it yourself. Because I have to say, your soy and corn diets aren't really helping matters either. And the pencil/paper you write with, and that pretty house you live in came from trees that harbored millions of living organisms that are now dead.
edit on 1-6-2013 by Hollie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by purplemer
 


Technically killing an animal is just as much as act of murder as kiliing another human being, because its an intentional act committed to take away the lifeforce of an animate living being.

An individual must decide themself whether killing animals is appropriate or not. Personally i think the human race would be better of as vegetarians.
Realistically however i cant see how that will happen any time in the near future, as many people view animals as nothing more than a food source.



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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Great video. I, too, allow my kids to choose. But I control that by narrowing their choices and using a Socratic methodology to lead them in the right direction.

The scoffing at this mother....ridiculous. She sounds like a wonderful mom. The son is a precociously intelligent child. The moment caught on film was sheer beauty.



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by iwilliam

I am truly sorry you cannot understand my points. I doubt I can make them more clear. I am certain I cannot clarify them by responding to a misunderstanding of grammar (you listed two classes and I addressed them both).

I will address a couple of points, simply because you misrepresent everything I have posted and I wish other readers to understand my points:


On the other hand, someone who can't figure out how to construct a diet with complete amino acids, without animal protein, is in my opinion unrepentingly stupid and possibly deserving of scorn or ridicule.

This is what I mean when I say elitist. Those who do not agree with you are scorned, deservedly according to you.


I am NOT advocating you allow a child to eat whatever they want.

OK, let's take this at face value. Next sentence:

I am saying a child should not be forced to eat meat if they object on moral grounds. You can not have a moral objection to eating carrots. There is no evidence that carrots have consciousness or feelings. We do have such evidence for animals.

Can you not see how you are projecting your own moral values onto others with this statement? Eating meat is the only moral choice that can be made, because you believe from the evidence you have seen that eating meat is immoral. No one is therefore capable of making other moral choices because you do not see them as credible.

That is the flaw in your argument. You presume to be the authority for what can and cannot be a moral decision. Therefore every opposing view must be an example of immorality.

Can you really not see this?


Stop trying to use cute arguments to stuff words in my mouth.

I have quoted every post of yours that I have replied to.


Final point: This passage, above, is where you truly take making ridiculous statements to an artform. Staged propaganda? How old do you think that child is? Old enough to memorize that many lines of text and speak them quite naturally? Talented little guy, I guess. Oscar nominee, by your estimation.

I know this child is young enough to be seated in a high chair. I would suppose then, perhaps age 3 at the most?

His lines are not delivered as scripted... rather, they are delivered as using his limited reasoning to understand something carefully explained to him before the video began. His questions seem to be somewhat coaxed at first (my opinion), and then to follow a very logical sequence to make the point. If this child is capable of following this line of logical thinking so clearly at age 3 or less, he deserves more than an Oscar... maybe a seat at Cambridge? Also, notice how this video just happened to be running at mealtime, and just happened to show him so clearly. Just how many people videotape their children as they eat? Am I to assume that this child just popped out this extensive line of reasoning at the same time that his parents just happened to be filming him? Or did they videotape him three times a day every day for those three years, just waiting for some profound wisdom to pop out of him as it finally did? And when it did, his mother, who is in tears of joy at this revelation of wisdom spontaneously spouting from her offspring, never stops taping, nor even has trouble maintaining focus and direction of the camera. Self-control of Mother Teresa, move over!

Even young children can memorize. He didn't have to memorize word for word, especially if he was being quietly coaxed from the other side of the camera. All he had to do was talk about how the octopus was once alive and he didn't want to eat it because it was once alive. Really not that difficult. He probably thought he was playing a game of pretend.


Forcing is what you are advocating, and what you're doing to a child when you force them to eat dead flesh against their will. Which of us here is really the one who advocates "forcing" another's will?

We both are. I am advocating forcing a child to eat proper foods (whether you believe they are proper or not) and to follow the directions of the parents. You are advocating forcing other adults to refrain from eating meat. Be honest: would you not support a law that forbad the eating of meat?

Again, eat what you will and I wish you the bast. I demand the same consideration. Sharing the planet with others has its drawbacks, don't it?

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 

sorry, got "apes" mixed up with "gorillas".

my point still stands though, you committed the appeal to nature fallacy.


wrong again.

didn't you see the chart, humans, chimps , gorillas, orangutans and gibbions are all apes.

and my reply was to member HelenConway and the comments on our teeth being like apes and made more for plants and not meat eating. showing that other apes eat meat, because they like it.

so your point doesn't stand as i was correcting her in showing that other apes eat meat.


edit on 1-6-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Children have too much freedom today, not too little.

This kid has done some thinking - and come to a conclusion

It's a moral/ethical choice on his part - not fussiness. Why would you force a kid to do something he/she finds morally repugnant?


But all that aside, as someone who has raised two healthy, happy, successful children, both of which are now grown and on their own, that child did not come up with this on his own. The questions were too planned, too perfect, too quickly posed following a logical sequence. As I said before, this was a staged video with a child prepared, probably through rote and practice, to ask these questions when prompted. Talk about controlling children! This control was not done to make the child healthy or to keep the child safe or to teach the child... it was done for a political motive. Now I ask everyone who thinks this is such a wonderful thing: why is it that a child can be controlled for the sole purpose of furthering someone's political agenda, but control for the child's health and safety is taboo? In what world dies this make sense?


You can't actually know any of that - and raising two kids doesn't mean you know this kid

You think the mother has an agenda? If she did - why would she be trying to feed her kid octopus? Or, do believe the whole thing was that scripted? I know this is a conspiracy site - but seriously?

Are you suspicious because you think vegetarianism is stupid and wrong - and no right thinking person would ever choose vegetarianism of their own free will? Especially not a kid?

Do you really think a kid that young can't reason? I've known other kids who've come to similar conclusions on their own - even that young. This includes me :-)

You should have heard me the first time I had to eat a rabbit

This isn't the same as teaching them not to play with fire - or rattlesnakes. His nutrition won't suffer. There is plenty of good information in this thread that proves this kind of thinking wrong - and even more good info out there in the real world. Vegetarians can thrive, and eating meat does not guarantee good health

It's mostly all what you're used to - that's the thing. I'm always amused at how angry some people get at the vegetarians - like it's some kind of plot :-)

Also - Redneck - my dad taught me how to catch rattlesnakes when I was four - he used to collect them for people doing research with the venom and took me along with him. We should never underestimate how much a kid can understand and learn at a very young age. We should also never underestimate what they can figure out and understand on their own. They'll live up to our expectations if we let them - freedom can be a very good thing



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 





If this child is capable of following this line of logical thinking so clearly at age 3 or less, he deserves more than an Oscar... maybe a seat at Cambridge? Also, notice how this video just happened to be running at mealtime, and just happened to show him so clearly. Just how many people videotape their children as they eat? Am I to assume that this child just popped out this extensive line of reasoning at the same time that his parents just happened to be filming him? Or did they videotape him three times a day every day for those three years, just waiting for some profound wisdom to pop out of him as it finally did?


I'm not looking to get into your guys squabble but your argument seems to be coming from someone without kids. If you do then I fear you need to spend more time with them. My daughter had known how to operate a Mac, pick movies, play, pause, stop rewind on the Mac when she was a year. She knew how to operate my phone. She could clearly state the names over several dinosaurs and every animal and fish at 2. You can think all you want but children have Avery special gift to learn and understand. Almost incalculable how much more now then when I was a child and I'm not that old.



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Rosinitiate
 


She does not eat eat meat or fish. Probably never will. I even tried hiding it a few times and she will immediately spit it out. What's more cruel? Forcing a child to eat something they clearly don't like/agree with or having to find another way to get the child protein.

In hind sight i have to consider that my daughter who might not remember herself, likely recognized that even though she feels its wrong i still made her eat it. So will she question her own morals because it was dad or will she question dads judgement? Hard to tell, she young and relationships aren't built from feeding a child. But they always play a role as does the way you treat them in all other respects. My daughter is a person and i respect her for her. So long as it isn't critical to her well being she may continue to do so.



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


I salute you on your choice and your stance as a vegan.

I admit I am very much a meat eater, though I do love salad and veggies as well.

I hope you do not take this the wrong way as I do not mean for it to be condescending in any way. My mind just locks onto things and then makes leaps that form questions,

You said that humans shouldn't eat meat as it is cruel to the animal. I too hate the thought of unnecessary suffering. But then you go on to say you are eating a spinach pizza. Is there cheese on the pizza? Have you ever seen a functioning dairy farm? I cannot see how a locked down life of breeding and servitude is better that a quick death. It stands in my mind as promoting animal slavery opposed to animal cruelty (though I think slavery is damn cruel as well).

Again, I really don't mean to come off as a smartass. I'd really like your thoughts on the "leap" my mind made here.

EDIT - OT I let my kid have a say in a part of every meal. I have since he was old enough to talk. If he wanted "bruberries" I added them into a salad, if he wanted pancakes I made them with potatoes as a side. He always wants what I am eating so it's never been a huge issue. He fishes and says "lets catch dinner" not lets catch fish. I wouldn't allow him to live off pizza and donuts just like I wouldn't let him live off bacon and steak. Try everything and get seconds of what you like.
edit on 1-6-2013 by 200Plus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 11:38 PM
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Ah, well, was fun trying. Apparently something is wrong with my keyboard and screen, because what I am typing and seeing is not what others are typing and reading.

Obviously the video is completely true, children are much smarter at age 3 than at any other point in their life, and morality is the same for everyone across the globe, especially when it comes to eating meat? Yeah, has to be something wrong with the computer.

Very well. Enjoy yourselves and I will try to return after I get this keyboard and monitor fixed.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by Rosinitiate
 


As far as the mother taping I've done similar. They go off verbally on thoughts and as a parent you can see wen a moment is happening. Sometimes I can catch it live other times me grabbing the recorder will distract her. Even when that happens i may try to coax her into doing it gain. Sometimes she will especially if the topic has meaning. To me there wasn't anything unnatural about the video all the way to the child showing genuine concern that mom was sad. And the words he used as understanding my daughter calls happy tears.



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



Obviously the video is completely true, children are much smarter at age 3 than at any other point in their life, and morality is the same for everyone across the globe, especially when it comes to eating meat?


Oh, Redneck - caving so soon?

:-)

Well, since I obviously think you were dead wrong I'll gladly accept your surrender

Let me know if you get a second wind



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by 200Plus
 


Mr. Sholtz talks the talk and walks the walk - he says this in this post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

i enjoy tea myself, i buy it from a renowned local teashop. don't take this as pressure to switch, but for cheese try the vegan brand daiya. their "cheese" is very good, it's actually on the pizza i'm making right now. a great butter substitute is "earth balance" spread, and for milk i either use almond milk or soy. i prefer almond milk unsweetened. it tastes remarkably like milk, 50% more calcium and much less fat.

the reason i do not drink milk is mainly due to the suffering those cows go through. it is horrible, truly horrible. the second reason has to do with casein, a milk protein that is a dangerous carcinogen, and bovine growth hormone, linked to different cancers. (bgh also causes considerable pain to the cows, increasing the volume of milk they produce by a huge amount)



posted on Jun, 1 2013 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


Ah then a huge apology is in order.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I will try to read the whole thread in the future.

Mr. Sholtz, sorry about my post and I cannot stress enough that I was not attempting to be rude with my question. I just get a little hot when people claim to be vegan due to sympathetic reasons, yet ignore the realities around them. I was wrong in this case and I freely admit it
edit on 2-6-2013 by 200Plus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by 200Plus
 


I always jump in before I read the whole thread - it's a rookie mistake I'm still making 5 years later

And this is ATS - you didn't get within a hundred miles of rude

:-)



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