Little Boy Discovers Meat Is Murder; Makes His Mom Cry..

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I'm sorry... a kid that young decides not to eat his food, essentially grills his mother about it being an animal, and the mother just gives in and decides to never eat meat again.

Riiiiiiiiight.

I call staged, and there is nothing more disgusting than using a little kid to advance an agenda. Shame on whoever produced this propaganda.

TheRedneck

I stand next to TheRedneck on this one.
Plus I would like to add, when we eat meat, or kill another animal for the most part we use every part of that animal so that non goes to waste.. IE hotdogs, and other bi product cuts of meats, and even for dog food.
That to me is not murder. Murder, is going out shooting animals for fun, which I DO NOT condone.

I love steaks and meats, and I honor each animal that gave its life force for my life force.
I will stop here, so I do not go into some rant about how much Vegans and others get under my skin about eating meat.
I might not agree with the handling and treatment of these animals, and we as humans have a long ways to go before we do the right thing by these creatures. But I honor them, and respect any meat I eat.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by iwilliam

 

I like your post. Kind of in mutual agreement.

Another micronutrient hard to find in non-flesh food is Choline. I think Zinc is another.

Ironically, peas have a good amount of Zinc for a vegetable. I've always read that kids hate peas. But when I was growing up, I distinctly hated lima beans and squash.

Now I love lima beans but still don't like squash.

edit on 1-6-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

choline is found in peanuts, soy, potatoes, cauliflower, lentils, oats, sesame seeds, etc.

there is honestly nothing your body needs that cannot be found in plants, nutritionally speaking.

One thing I read is that people in the past didn't wash things as much. So there was more B-12 hanging around from the bacterial s*** that's on the surface of the food.

that's where b-12 comes from in animals, bacterial waste from plants in soil. i find it funny that people single things like that out while eating dead cells, puss, blood, entrails, and other nasty things found in animals.

edit on 1-6-2013 by Bob Sholtz because: (no reason given)

You are correct on the B-12 point. There are a couple that are a little trickier to obtain with a plant-only diet, but that's not to say it can't be done. After B-12, the next on the list would be a complete compliment of amino acids. IMO that's the big one (after B-12, which is stupidly important-- allow yourself to become b-12 deficient and you're looking at everything fro arrhythmia to dementia-- no joke.) The key to getting a complete compliment of essential (and semi-essential / conditionally essential) amino acids is to eat the right combination of amino-sources, and a wide variety of foods. Of course, you can also buy amino acid supplements, but that can become a tad pricey. Point being, you have to do a little research and pay a little more attention to your diet-- which, aside from being a little more expensive, is probably also a little too intellectually challenging for some of the no-nonsense carnivores I've seen.


But as long as you're paying attention (and have the money to pull it off) it can be done-- and it's even a very healthy way to eat.


I'm not sure I could ever give up dairy, though. I like milk and cheese a little too much. Sure, I've heard some good stuff about daiya cheese (I've heard a few less than awesome things, too). But I really love my cheddar.



@ the Redneck..... playing with a rattlesnake? Give me a break. You're going to equate allowing your child to not eat meat if they're morally / emotionally opposed to allowing them to play with a rattlesnake?

You've heard the term "Straw Man Argument" before, I'm sure? Because that's what you just did....

Certain foods, like beer, are an aquired taste.
The trick is to introduce your children to those types of foods in a not so overt manner. When people say, "give te kid a choice", what they are really saying is, "it is ok if your brat throws a fit because they don't want to eat broccoli." In my house picky eating is not an option. It is annoying and disrespectful to balk at a meal someone has prepared for you.

Now, that is a smart kid, but his mother is letting a 2 year old walk all over her. Way to go, mom.

reply to post by iwilliam

It's not EXACTLY a straw man argument. He's saying that allowing them to not eat meat is dangerous because of the dietary concerns. It may not be equally dangerous as playing with a rattlesnake, but it has its own set of challenges. One possible route is to offer the child supplements. You could research this whole thing and figure out something the child likes. Alternatively, you could just let them be dumb for a bit. Kids will go through phases. He may change his mind later, as long as you don't push him/her too much. Sometimes pushing a child too much gets the opposite outcome of what you want. You want them to understand you care, but don't bully them.

That said, being an adult doesn't mean you automatically make smart healthy choices. In fact, I think that's the exception, not the norm. Maybe some adults should be classified as children.

Maybe there's no adult that makes consistent smart healthy choices.

reply to post by jonnywhite

Now that's a post I can agree with.

The problem I see is that people take things too far one way or another. I learned over the years that it is indeed possible to live without meat, but it is also very difficult to maintain strength and concentration after a time period. It is possible to live for a short time without vegetables, but the deleterious effects, including some pretty nice gastrointestinal ailments and hormonal imbalances, are much faster. There's a reason why the traditional meal is one meat and three vegetables: that is about the right proportion from my experience.

TheRedneck

reply to post by iwilliam

amino acids are also complete. it is actually impossible to eat a variety of starches and vegetables, meet the required caloric daily intake, but not get adequate nutrition.

A Statement for Healthcare Professionals From the Nutrition Committee of the Council on Nutrition, Physical Activity, and Metabolism of the American Heart Association,” contains often quoted, but incorrect, information about the adequacy of amino acids found in plant foods.1 This report states, “ Although plant proteins form a large part of the human diet, most are deficient in 1 or more essential amino acids and are therefore regarded as incomplete proteins.”

Therefore, a careful look at the founding scientific research and some simple math prove it is impossible to design an amino acid–deficient diet based on the amounts of unprocessed starches and vegetables sufficient to meet the calorie needs of humans. Furthermore, mixing foods to make a complementary amino acid composition is unnecessary.

circ.ahajournals.org...

the propaganda that began decades ago is still in full swing, and a complete lie. there is honestly nothing lacking in a pure vegan diet. i don't have to watch what i eat any more than any other human.

i don't mean to pick on you or anyone else, but i was personally shocked to learn that there was nothing i couldn't get through plants. as i mentioned earlier the propaganda started decades ago with the meat and dairy industry going to doctors and having them recommend "a hearty breakfast consisting of two eggs, bacon, and a glass of milk".

humans are the only known creature on the planet that consumes the breast milk of another species.

for those who say "i just couldn't give up *insert animal product*" you should watch earthlings, then come back here and tell me you still want to support that because of personal pleasure.

cows are physically raped over and over to produce calfs that are taken away mere hours after birth. some cows die of depression. the calfs are either used to make veal, or killed. torches are used to scorch the teats of milk cows to rid them of hair because it's faster and cheaper. their tails are twisted off (you can hear the bone snap and the cow scream. yes, cows can scream.) and they are branded.

it is illegal for vets to cause pain with a proceedure to animals without giving them anesthetics, but this does not apply to cows, chickens (who have their beaks amputated with a hot knife), pigs (castrated, and tattooed with a spiked club dipped in ink), and other "livestock".

this is not a nutritional issue, it is a moral issue. i challenge everyone to research factory farms, then come back and tell me you can't live without cheese, or milk, or steak, cuz i'm damn sure animals don't appreciate it.

also, i fail to understand how a reasoned argument from a child (no tantrum or fit, no crying and screaming) constitutes "walking all over the mom".

by the way, JUST america feeds enough grain to livestock to feed 800,000,000 humans. that's 800 million humans. world hunger could be completely ended if people stopped eating meat. animal products are not healthy, ethical, or necessary.

It's not EXACTLY a straw man argument. He's saying that allowing them to not eat meat is dangerous because of the dietary concerns.

i believe i've addressed most "dietary concerns". they simply don't exist.

reply to post by iwilliam

@ the Redneck..... playing with a rattlesnake? Give me a break. You're going to equate allowing your child to not eat meat if they're morally / emotionally opposed to allowing them to play with a rattlesnake?

Strawman? Really?

Point: obviously missed.

Are you saying that the foods one eats are not related to physical growth and development? I say they are, and thus it is necessary to control what a child eats to assure proper physical development. I believe a vast body of scientific evidence as well as an entire industry of dieticians, nutritionists, doctors, etc. will agree with me. Getting too close to a dangerous animal is a threat to a child's life, therefore it is necessary to control a child's actions to assure continued existence.

I see a pattern of necessary control there. Sorry if you do not.

That reply was in response to the often-stated belief in this thread that parents should not control their children's actions. Would you agree that keeping a child from playing with a dangerous animal is controlling a child's actions?

TheRedneck

eesh, wait until he finds out the potatoes and rice were also once living creatures. kid will be stuck sucking rocks for nourishment if its just a stance on not to hurt life.

cute kid nonetheless though, and yes, his tiny mindset is relevant to the greater picture. more complex than that, but sometimes simple arguments are effective enough.

But yeah...all that goes out the window once you bite into a well cooked (name your meat) with the sauces and marinating, etc.

I am a fan of funding science to have an acceptable tasty alternative. cloned meat..yum. Finally be able to taste Panda and Eagle

Well either way, this thread has been informative, and I am flagging it

I still love my meat, and I still love my salad,
but I have cut down on red meat a lot over the last couple of years, not due to choice as much as life circumstances, and I think it was cutting down on the beer that made the biggest difference. Actually now, I might just go back to eating more red meat as I went from 160 pounds to 200 pounds of muscle while having a heavy red meat diet, to 150 pounds and feel to skinny. I was proud of that weight gain.

*eyeballs can of whey protein shake mix that he just bought*

First I will try this though and see if that helps!

reply to post by TheRedneck

the point you made is valid to a degree, but not applicable to this scenario.

children shouldn't be given free reign when their choices could hurt them, but a vegan diet poses no risks to a child. i've posted several things on nutrition already, plants are capable of providing everything necessary.

Children are conscious beings of light. They learn early on to adapt to what helps them to survive even if it goes against their souls journey and their higher conscious needs.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

Thank you for admitting the validity.

My problem actually lies less with the child's refusal to eat the critter than with the obvious (to me) staging of the video and therefore the use of a child to promote an agenda. If someone wishes to eat vegetables only, that's fine by me. If someone wants to try and live on truck stop hot dogs (trust me, not something to be attempted by the faint-hearted), that's fine too. It doesn't affect me. If you wish to go vegan, please, be my guest. Enjoy; I support your decision.

But please do not attempt to demand that I follow your lead. I am an individual with my own desires and pleasures in life, none of which affect you any more than your vegan lifestyle affects me.

Propaganda like this is being used to try and demonize the use of meat in the diet, when nutritionists have also shown that while vegetarian diets can contain all necessary nutrients known, such a diet is inefficient at supplying many of those nutrients. I mentioned above that going for too long without meat can lead to a slow loss of concentration and strength. That is personal experience.

And while you are not attempting to demand that I follow your lead, please do not use unwitting children in the propaganda, while telling me that children should be free to make their own decisions.

TheRedneck

reply to post by kaylaluv


Cocout milk sounds good. Thats something I will try.. I love coconut and I love Chi tea too!...

I thought Chimpanzees were our ancestors? They eat lots of meat and even hunt for it. www-bcf.usc.edu... So quit saying humans aren't equipped to eat meat. Look at our teeth sheesh.

You bleeding hearts can read these and THEN tell us all about how that lifestyle is even close to being healthy for young children.

naturalhygienesociety.org...
www.foxnews.com...

And if you raise your baby as a vegetarian, eating cheese and dairy, then you are still contributing to the cruelty and factory farming practices just like the other consumers of meat. And do not forget, all your store bought veggies are fertilized with animal feces.

I personally raise my own meat and taught my young'n how to dispatch and process at an early age, and that is a skill not taught to our children anymore. He had NO choice but to eat what I know is a healthy nutritional diet. I do not believe in the suffering of my food, and that includes plants. So you can keep your vegan diet that is processed and packaged in a plastic petroleum based container that is likely made from GMO soy or corn. Your soy burger that looks like hamburger patty or your Tofurky that looks like a Butterball makes me lolololololol. Vegan food shaped like meat is strange!

I have a close friend that is vegan and she always has belly cramps and constantly lets off the smelliest of farts. She has no fat hardly on her body and rarely gets her menstrual cycle, which is good, because she is always moody anyway, which is prolly due to her vegan diet.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

Thank you for admitting the validity.

My problem actually lies less with the child's refusal to eat the critter than with the obvious (to me) staging of the video and therefore the use of a child to promote an agenda. If someone wishes to eat vegetables only, that's fine by me. If someone wants to try and live on truck stop hot dogs (trust me, not something to be attempted by the faint-hearted), that's fine too. It doesn't affect me. If you wish to go vegan, please, be my guest. Enjoy; I support your decision.

But please do not attempt to demand that I follow your lead. I am an individual with my own desires and pleasures in life, none of which affect you any more than your vegan lifestyle affects me.

Propaganda like this is being used to try and demonize the use of meat in the diet, when nutritionists have also shown that while vegetarian diets can contain all necessary nutrients known, such a diet is inefficient at supplying many of those nutrients. I mentioned above that going for too long without meat can lead to a slow loss of concentration and strength. That is personal experience.

And while you are not attempting to demand that I follow your lead, please do not use unwitting children in the propaganda, while telling me that children should be free to make their own decisions.

TheRedneck

is it ok to use commercials featuring kids with cancer to promote cancer awareness?

the issue i have with people saying "it's ok for you, but don't judge me for eating meat" is that this is an example of something called "moral relativism".

my simple question has always been "is causing unnecessary death and suffering for the sake of pleasure morally justified?" your answer to that seems to be yes.

since you accept that meat isn't needed to live (and indeed it is healthier to not eat meat, see the presentation i posted), logically speaking the only reason to consume it would be pleasure. which means that pleasure is a justification to cause suffering and kill. therefore one should be able to abuse animals for pleasure, animal fights for pleasure are also completely fine.

this is the consequence of your reasoning. do you disagree?

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

logically speaking the only reason to consume it would be pleasure. which means that pleasure is a justification to cause suffering and kill.

No, logically speaking, people eat meat pleasurably because they do not have the unpleasure of killing and processing it themselves. It is readily available to them so they are disassociated with their food.

Home grown food! No suffering at all here. So everything that dies suffers too right? Have you ever slapped a mosquito on your arm? It must have suffered right? Even though it died immediately and didn't know what was coming? That is crazy to equate something that is going to die as suffering in it's life. Not my food though. Maybe yours does.

Originally posted by Hollie

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

logically speaking the only reason to consume it would be pleasure. which means that pleasure is a justification to cause suffering and kill.

No, logically speaking, people eat meat pleasurably because they do not have the unpleasure of killing and processing it themselves. It is readily available to them so they are disassociated with their food.

then you would say that paying someone to kill for you, is ok? in other words, funding animal abuse is fine?

reply to post by Hollie

but why kill when it isn't needed? if i kill someone in their sleep is it ok? they didn't suffer, so i'm sure they won't mind being dead, right?

the misquito point is a logical fallacy known as "tu quoque". yes, i have killed a mosquito, though i try to limit the amount of killing i do as much as possible.