Little Boy Discovers Meat Is Murder; Makes His Mom Cry..

My daughter got a little testy with me when she found out that steak was from a cow. And chicken was a bird, and fish was fish...but she got over it.

Actually so did one of my sons, who also got over it in a hurry.

Eating meat is not murder, and to encourage that in a child is not necessarily a healthy thing as many people have pointed out. Now, if it is a spiritual or religious choice, that could be different, as no one should tell someone how to raise their children, however, whether people like it or not, the reason we have survived as a species as long as we have is because we eat both plant and animal and are built that way. We can be scavengers, hunters, pickers, gatherers and that has allowed us to thrive as human beings. That is the way we are set up physically, that is how evolution has generated us, and that is how we will continue to be.

People can be vegetarian if they so choose, but for a child it is not really healthy because of proteins and just the way the body and brain is set up to grow. To suggest anything else is also not healthy, because it just is not true. We have a 5 foot large intestine for a reason, it is right in between a herbivore and a carnivore. As it should be for an omnivore.

Just my 2 cents.

Cute kid, I'm surprised at his age he was able to analyze and come to the conclusion that he did. Just shows how innocent children are before they're taught the reality of life.

Cool
Thanks for sharing
Childlike wisdom


LOVE

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by HelenConway

 

So because my name is Christian Voice you have to bring Christianity directly into a discussion about eating meat? Wow!!! How in the world do you figure that Christianity is what you think it is? How do you figure because I'm Christian and I eat meat that I'm a Satanist? That is plain stupid. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we cannot eat animals. As a matter of fact it gives complete lists of acceptable animals to eat. It also gives no reference at all to lead us to believe that animals have spirit. They are food, so no spirit. Research a little.

Because Christians are all about the love and you know lions laying with lambs.
Anyone who says that other creatures are beneath them - follow the old gods - the violent ones

reply to post by purplemer

this is amazing.

i'm vegan for moral reasons, and i have yet to meet someone who could answer this line of logic reasonably:

is unnecessary killing and suffering right? (obviously not)

most meat eaters will answer: "eating animals is necessary"

why? surely not for nutritional reasons? 14 out of the 15 leading causes of death are either erased or substantially reduced when animals are removed from one's diet (the ones that aren't effected are accidental deaths).
for pleasure? is pleasure a justification to cause suffering and to kill? no. (btw, cooking vegan is easy, the only drawback is that my family (non-vegans) eat most of my food because it is so delicious).

if perceived pleasure is the reason for eating animals, then abusing animals for pleasure and animal fighting should be ok also, right?

i've never met anyone answer these questions without either saying "i don't want to hear your opinions" (others usually bring up the subject, not me, and they are not opinions, but facts) or going the "bacon is tasty" route, thinking to make me envious that they can eat bacon, not knowing that there are much better things.

i challenge you to try going vegan, you'll feel much better in about 12 days. you'll lose weight at about 2lbs a week without exercise until you reach a healthy level, your energy will increase and you won't feel drowsy. depression and anxiety disorders are mediated because plants carry high amounts of human neurotransmitters. i went cold turkey and haven't looked back since.

ETA: i am a christian, and i know unnecessary suffering and killing to be immoral. it is one of the reasons i switched. now if you'll excuse me all this talk of food is making me hungry, i'm gonna go make spinach pizza!

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Thank you for your reply..I am vegetarian myself. Well kind of. I do eat fish sometimes. I think I would find it difficult to be vegan. I would miss milk, cheese, butter and cream. I am yet to find a decent milk substitute for tea for example... Really though I would prefer to life in a world where animals are not exploited for meat and the likes. I see it as a form of bullying, because we can.We do..

Originally posted by kaylaluv
If I gave my daughter complete control over what she ate, it would be nothing but tater tots and chocolate.

Having said that, my husband and I are pescatarians (eat fish, but no beef, pork, poultry), but I've always told my daughter it was her choice if she wanted to eat a hamburger or chicken or bacon. So far, she has chosen not to, and I'm good with that.

Don't knock the tots-n-choc diet. It's good for the soul.
I would include ketchup though. Those tomatoes deserve it, after that documentary about their murderous misdeeds.
www.imdb.com...

to be on topic though..I am slowly working my way down the evolutionary chain. I eat meat, but it's coming from animals of lesser and lesser intelligence.....That does NOT mean that I will eventually be serving Casserole of Congress-critter though. That's a different kind of low IQ..

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

Thank you for your reply..I am vegetarian myself. Well kind of. I do eat fish sometimes. I think I would find it difficult to be vegan. I would miss milk, cheese, butter and cream. I am yet to find a decent milk substitute for tea for example... Really though I would prefer to life in a world where animals are not exploited for meat and the likes. I see it as a form of bullying, because we can.We do..

i enjoy tea myself, i buy it from a renowned local teashop. don't take this as pressure to switch, but for cheese try the vegan brand daiya. their "cheese" is very good, it's actually on the pizza i'm making right now. a great butter substitute is "earth balance" spread, and for milk i either use almond milk or soy. i prefer almond milk unsweetened. it tastes remarkably like milk, 50% more calcium and much less fat.

the reason i do not drink milk is mainly due to the suffering those cows go through. it is horrible, truly horrible. the second reason has to do with casein, a milk protein that is a dangerous carcinogen, and bovine growth hormone, linked to different cancers. (bgh also causes considerable pain to the cows, increasing the volume of milk they produce by a huge amount)

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

is unnecessary killing and suffering right? (obviously not)

I would never make a living being suffer, if I had to take it myself, it would be quick and as painless as possible.
(although I will concede that the way animals are raised and treated in some situations is very bad, and I do not agree with the needless suffering and abuse, they should be happy right up until death, but in the wild animals such as deer live in a state of caution and fear most of their lives)

why? surely not for nutritional reasons? 14 out of the 15 leading causes of death are either erased or substantially reduced when animals are removed from one's diet (the ones that aren't effected are accidental deaths).

It is how the human body is set up. For survival. We live longer now than we ever have as far as I know. If you remove meat from ones diet completely, you will have to take supplements and it is very difficult for the average person to afford these things, and in a survival setting almost impossible.

for pleasure? is pleasure a justification to cause suffering and to kill? no. (btw, cooking vegan is easy, the only drawback is that my family (non-vegans) eat most of my food because it is so delicious).

I love my steak, yes I do. If you were to just pick plant or animal, and not a combination of both, it could lead to health problems either way unless you know the right things to take as dietary supplements. To which most people don't and again, cannot afford.Chances are a lot of it would not be available to the average person unless they lived in a large city.

if perceived pleasure is the reason for eating animals, then abusing animals for pleasure and animal fighting should be ok also, right?

Absolutely not! I don't know where that logic comes from.

i've never met anyone answer these questions without either saying "i don't want to hear your opinions" (others usually bring up the subject, not me, and they are not opinions, but facts) or going the "bacon is tasty" route, thinking to make me envious that they can eat bacon, not knowing that there are much better things.

Well, I am giving it a go. I think everything in moderation is best personally. You can't live on a head of lettus, and you can't live on just a cow. You might get away with it for a while, but in the long run, it would mess you up.

i challenge you to try going vegan, you'll feel much better in about 12 days. you'll lose weight at about 2lbs a week without exercise until you reach a healthy level, your energy will increase and you won't feel drowsy. depression and anxiety disorders are mediated because plants carry high amounts of human neurotransmitters. i went cold turkey and haven't looked back since.

You will feel better at first, but again, in the long run I am willing to bet people would find a lot of problems with just one or the other. Especially if they cannot afford the alternatives, such as veggies that supply proteins and pills that help to offset the lack of such things as fats you need. There is both good and bad in picking either one over the other.

It is a conscious choice, and I applaud you for choosing to not take part in slaughter of animals, I do understand why people make these choices, however, I worry about health in the long run, especially with people who do not educate themselves before making such choices.

You do make me want to have a salad though


I choose to be what nature set me up to be, omnivorous, I do however honor in spirit those animals I consume.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

Thank you for your reply..I am vegetarian myself. Well kind of. I do eat fish sometimes. I think I would find it difficult to be vegan. I would miss milk, cheese, butter and cream. I am yet to find a decent milk substitute for tea for example... Really though I would prefer to life in a world where animals are not exploited for meat and the likes. I see it as a form of bullying, because we can.We do..

I hear you. I can easily do without butter, milk, or cream, but cheese is one of the great joys in my life!! I have yet to find a tasty, gooey cheese alternative - and I've tried a lot.

By the way, have you tried coconut milk in your tea? I use it in my chai tea, and I love it.

Nowadays everybody is far too "rational". Even if the kid was perfectly right and was a genius they'd still force him to gulp down steak, bacon, eggs, fish, sausage and other flesh foods because that's what the USDA says he should do. Besides, that's what his parents want and they worry. (I'm by no means saying kids are smart enough to make these choices, but IF they were... Hell, for that matter, many adults can't backup their opinions with empirical evidence, so whatever.)

When I was a kid, I swallowed whatever my parents gave me, except he squash and lima beans. I ate meat. I also did dumb things, real dumb things. Bu then I grew up. I didn't start wondering about the animals that we eat until I was about 13 and saw chickens being butchered. I started philosophizing when I was about 15. I didn't start reducing how much meat I ate until i was an adult.

There's no deviation permitted. If you ask "Why is there suffering in the world?" then your parents immediately call the psychiatrist and put you on meds. If you pretend to shoot things like Rambo in the movies (for fun) then your parents immediately call the police and put you in jail for a day to show you how bad your life will be if you continue this abhorrent behavior. And if you say "Momma, I hate school; I lose interest!" then she eventually puts you on ritalin (a class II drug) because the psychiatrist thought he has ADD. Now he's stuck on it, probably for a long time.

This list is SMALL. This is also a parent-control issue. Parents want to control their child. This is primarily because they worry so much. They worry and worry and worry.

In time we're all going to be robots. Robots would do well in our society.

reply to post by Darkblade71

I would never make a living being suffer, if I had to take it myself, it would be quick and as painless as possible. (although I will concede that the way animals are raised and treated in some situations is very bad, and I do not agree with the needless suffering and abuse, they should be happy right up until death, but in the wild animals such as deer live in a state of caution and fear most of their lives)

thank you for a reasoned reply.

would it not be better to let the animals live? almost all animals one eats come from factory farms. google "factory farms" if you want to know what animals go through before they end up in neat little packages.

It is how the human body is set up. For survival. We live longer now than we ever have as far as I know. If you remove meat from ones diet completely, you will have to take supplements and it is very difficult for the average person to afford these things, and in a survival setting almost impossible.

at one point when america started thinking "a hearty breakfast consisting of two eggs and bacon" was a good thing (the result of propaganda), the U.S. had over 14,000 deaths due to prostate cancer. japan (having half our population) had less than 10 deaths to prostate cancer. the only difference was diet. they mostly ate rice and vegetables. some fish, yes, but mostly vegetables. we live longer due to medical advances, the average vegan lives around 10 years longer than a non-vegan and has almost 8 times the cancer fighting potential.

I love my steak, yes I do. If you were to just pick plant or animal, and not a combination of both, it could lead to health problems either way unless you know the right things to take as dietary supplements. To which most people don't and again, cannot afford.Chances are a lot of it would not be available to the average person unless they lived in a large city.

i thought this was true for a time too, but it actually isn't. the ONLY vitamins that cannot be found in land plants are some B series vitamins, mainly B-12). they come from bacteria in soil, and our processed plants don't contain much. (animal cells cannot produce B-12 either). it can be gained from some sea plants naturally, but most foods are infused with B-12 supplements already. i'm quite healthy and i do not take suppliments, it can all be obtained from plants.

Absolutely not! I don't know where that logic comes from.

it comes from "i love eating steak, therefore i will kill to eat steak for pleasure, not necessity". perhaps you didn't know that plants can give you everything you need to live and more, but they can.

Well, I am giving it a go. I think everything in moderation is best personally. You can't live on a head of lettus, and you can't live on just a cow. You might get away with it for a while, but in the long run, it would mess you up.

i am happy that you replied, and in a reasonable, non-hostile manner as well! while it is true you cannot live on just lettuce, you can live on leafy greens (spinach and kale are the best for you), asparagus, squash, tofu, beans, rice, nuts, berries, fruit etc. i can provide you with a documentary on it if you wish to see a doctor go through the top 15 ways to die, and the benefits of not eating animal products.

It is a conscious choice, and I applaud you for choosing to not take part in slaughter of animals, I do understand why people make these choices, however, I worry about health in the long run, especially with people who do not educate themselves before making such choices.

i am happy you understand it is a choice made out of compassion. if you are teetering on the edge, but still think that a vegan diet cannot give you everything you need while keeping you very healthy, i'd recommend you watch www.youtube.com...
it isn't terribly long, and very enlightening. tons of 30+ year studies on vegan vs. meat.

if your concern is food variety, i would send you to www.forksoverknives.com...
lots of good food ideas there.

reply to post by kaylaluv

i made recommendations above for good brands to try, but i very highly recommend daiya for a cheese substitute brand. simply delicious.

www.daiyafoods.com...

go ahead and take a look

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by j.r.c.b.

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by j.r.c.b.
Wow, that's a really smart little boy!! How cool that his mom let him make his own choice!! I love that!! And I DO come from a meat eating family, but this was so precious!!

TY OP FOR POSTING.......

Really?

Your going to give your 2 yr. old kid choices about what he can eat?

Sorry but as a parent you tell your 2 yr. old kid what he will eat.

I hate liberal parents...not saying anything in regards to you but just in general.

Nah, I didnt have that problem with any of my kids at that age. They all enjoyed a nice juicy stake at the age of 2 until present........my main point was, that's one smart kid!! Some kids are picky, my 8 year old refuses to eat eggs, but that's just cause he dont like them......

Yea...definitely some brains on that youngster and very good point. Sorry to go off on a rant there but I still have a taste of crappy pea soup I was forced to eat when I was a child.

Great thread

So let me get this straight.... because you're still bitter that you had control freak parents who forced you to eat pea soup, you think parents should force their children to eat the flesh of living creatures if they're opposed to it? Great parenting strategy some people have.

I think if child is emotionally / spiritually developed to the point where it disturbs them to be complicit in the death of another living being for their food, a parent should not force them to eat it. The fact that you don't easily recognize how morally repugnant this is, is a little shocking, quite frankly. IMO such a practice is right on the border of emotional torture. Of course, someone who never gave a second thought to the lives they consumed would probably not understand such a thing.

And don't imagine I'm saying this because I'm some hippy-dippy tree-hugging vegetarian. I'm not. I do, in fact, eat meat. To be fair, I find it a bit disturbing (sometimes very disturbing, even). However, having a background in nutrition, I know it can be difficult to get certain micronutrients from a strictly plant-based diet, and I don't have those kind of resources at the moment. Once I start being a little less broke I may give more serious thought to vegetarianism. But enough about me.....


I understand that kids don't always know what's best for them. And sometimes, as parents, we have to give them guidance... and yes.... depending on the situation, maybe even "force" them a bit. You force your child to do their schoolwork if they're trying to goof off. If you see fit (and the child is old enough, IMO) you maybe "force" them to do their chores. You do not force your child to be complicit in the death of animals when they are morally / emotionally opposed to it.


What if I, personally, thought killing humans was okay? What if I explained this to my young child, and tried to force them to kill humans alongside me? What would you think of that? What kind of impact, emotionally speaking, do you think that might have on the child? The fact is, children are sometimes less "tainted" by the world and society than we are. Sometimes this allows them to see things in a more simple light, or to look at things we take for granted, or don't really think about. And, if we're being real, sometimes even a young child can show emotional or spiritual development beyond that of their parents.


The mind viruses of ego and control, are some of the most disgusting things I've ever seen passed parent to child. I've seen plenty of evidence of this in the world-- but one need look no further than some of the responses in this thread. The fact that someone could look at this innocent expression of love for fellow living creatures, and see "propaganda" is disgusting, and more than a little sad, and it frightens me to think about how certain segments of our society are passing on cynicism, ego, and other horrid mind-viruses that are socially cancerous to our species. I've met children like this. My cousin was one of them. His parents were and are meat eaters. His brother was, and is a meat eater. But this kid just didn't want to do it, and his mother was good enough to not force him. He still doesn't eat meat to this day (and I'm happy to say that he and his mother have a very healthy and exceptionally close relationship.)



/rant

We only eat meat because we carefully select it,then we cut it in pieces and season and marinate it in herbs and sauces,then we cook them to perfection to suit our taste,then we eat them with vegetables and bread/rice,etc, and finally we wash them down with a drink...A true meat eater would bite into a dead deer and rip off a big chunk of meat and eat it with joy.

reply to post by iwilliam

I like your post. Kind of in mutual agreement.

Another micronutrient hard to find in non-flesh food is Choline. I think Zinc is another.

Ironically, peas have a good amount of Zinc for a vegetable. I've always read that kids hate peas. But when I was growing up, I distinctly hated lima beans and squash.

Now I love lima beans but still don't like squash...

Like you say, for a person that doesn't know much, it's hard to kick flesh food. There're so many micronutrients the body needs. The easiest method is to eat almost everything. I've called this the shotgun approach in the past; I'm probably not the first. It corrects for ignorance.

I do think it's possible to avoid eating flesh. But you need knowledge and (probably) money.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by iwilliam

 

I like your post. Kind of in mutual agreement.

Another micronutrient hard to find in non-flesh food is Choline. I think Zinc is another.

Ironically, peas have a good amount of Zinc for a vegetable. I've always read that kids hate peas. But when I was growing up, I distinctly hated lima beans and squash.

Now I love lima beans but still don't like squash.

edit on 1-6-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

choline is found in peanuts, soy, potatoes, cauliflower, lentils, oats, sesame seeds, etc.

there is honestly nothing your body needs that cannot be found in plants, nutritionally speaking.

One thing I read is that people in the past didn't wash things as much. So there was more B-12 hanging around from the bacterial s*** that's on the surface of the food.

that's where b-12 comes from in animals, bacterial waste from plants in soil. i find it funny that people single things like that out while eating dead cells, puss, blood, entrails, and other nasty things found in animals.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
Parents want to control their child.

Yes they do. Thank all that is good in the world that they do! Otherwise:

• The child wants to play with a rattlesnake? Can't stop it; it's the child's decision.
  
• Child wants to eat poison berries? Have to allow it; they know best.
  
• That stranger offered them candy if they'll go with them? Who am I to stop their social development?
  
• Child wants to play in traffic? They're just expressing themselves.

I'm not picking on you, Jonny, I promise. But I have seen so many similar replies in this thread I simply have to say something... your post was simply the straw that broke the camel's back. Children have too much freedom today, not too little. The purpose of a parent is to protect and teach until the child can handle life on their own. One cannot protect if there is no control; one cannot teach if they believe they have nothing to teach.

When born, children know very little: how to cry, how to swim, falling is bad... as they grow they learn from those around them, primarily from the parents, but from the world around them as well. They learn what pleasure is, well before they learn what consequences may lie in store. It is more pleasurable to play video games in air-conditioned comfort than to play outside; it is more pleasurable to eat Big Macs than to eat healthy foods; but both make them fat and lazy. It is the responsibility of the parents to say no when needed.

But all that aside, as someone who has raised two healthy, happy, successful children, both of which are now grown and on their own, that child did not come up with this on his own. The questions were too planned, too perfect, too quickly posed following a logical sequence. As I said before, this was a staged video with a child prepared, probably through rote and practice, to ask these questions when prompted. Talk about controlling children! This control was not done to make the child healthy or to keep the child safe or to teach the child... it was done for a political motive. Now I ask everyone who thinks this is such a wonderful thing: why is it that a child can be controlled for the sole purpose of furthering someone's political agenda, but control for the child's health and safety is taboo? In what world dies this make sense?

Not in mine, I can assure you.

TheRedneck

I thought the video was cute and the kid is smart. When my daughter made the connection that the walking clucking chicken was the very same found in her chicken strips... she had a brief moment where she said she didn't want to eat it anymore... and by brief, I mean 30 seconds later she was chowing down saying but it's good.

I think every (or at least many) parents have engaged in the "If you don't want to eat that, then you need to eat more of this". My kiddo doesn't care for steak or pork, so when we have these I tend to give her the choice to eat the meat, or to eat more of the veggies. More often than not, she chooses more veggies. And I am completely okay with that.

Children are smarter than a lot of people give them credit for, and I think it is entirely possible that this kid did make the connection between killing animals to eat animals. I also think that a lot of people have overreacted to this by turning it into a huge ethical debate. It's not, and shouldn't be. Whether the kid ate the octopus or not, he had gnocci and potatoes, so he had a meal. I am sure the mother will take measures to humor his current objection to meat (perhaps supplementing with extra veggies or something, and most likely it will be a phase anyway. I think a lot of kids go through this phase.


For the poster who was forced to eat pea soup, I totally relate! I was forced to eat an entire serving of plain peas. I vomited, and it took me approximately 25 years before I would even consider trying them again. Now I can only really tolerate the tiny baby peas, and I absolutely will NOT chew them, they must be swallowed whole. Some forceful parenting can really leave a scar! lol

reply to post by TheRedneck

I agree that kids need parents, but that worry can get out of hand. You shouldn't take what I say and run so far with it, but maybe when I posted I'm guilty of the same thing.

It's just a one track mind. I came here and was in an attack mode.

Parents need to control some things, ok. But they need to know when to stop. Problem is, I don't think there's a sure way to know. It's hit and miss. Winners and losers.