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“God's only excuse is that he does not exist”
Stendhal
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
It seems like you are saying that the concept of God is and has been created by the minds of men. For your example, you say that Orcs, Middle Earth, and Sauron were all creations of Tolkien's imagination. However, if that's true, then that also points to your own existence being the creation of someone else's imagination, correct? Wouldn't we call that figure God and wouldn't he be just as real as your consider Tolkien?
So basically you are saying that it is possible for people to believe things to be true because someone else told them they are true. Yes, that is possible. Now, the Christian bible has a self check, it says that for someone to be a prophet they can NEVER be wrong. Let me ask you a question. 2,000 years ago the bible predicted that it would be spread to every part of the world (it has) when they didn't even know how big the world was and had no printing press. It then said that once it had spread throughout the whole world that people would fall away from the church (they are). Do you not find this interesting at all? Please tell us what Orc accurately predicted.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
But to make myself more clear, it involves a faith in the very words and propositions that state that here first is a God, and not faith in God as such, or as something we have experienced outside of the language that describes to us what God is. This assumption is based on your metaphysics, the whole promise of "God exists", and is a matter of taste or indoctrination, and not the fact of the matter, nor something you creatively contrived. This faith in a God, derived only from scripture or priestly rhetoric, is at best and in truth, faith not in God, but only in the language and words he exists within.
God exists by not existing. Until you find nothingness you will be full of ideas and have only an idea about God.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by AQuestion
So basically you are saying that it is possible for people to believe things to be true because someone else told them they are true. Yes, that is possible. Now, the Christian bible has a self check, it says that for someone to be a prophet they can NEVER be wrong. Let me ask you a question. 2,000 years ago the bible predicted that it would be spread to every part of the world (it has) when they didn't even know how big the world was and had no printing press. It then said that once it had spread throughout the whole world that people would fall away from the church (they are). Do you not find this interesting at all? Please tell us what Orc accurately predicted.
I don't find it interesting at all. I cannot find any particular interest in the words in the bible, save perhaps for its lyrical beauty.
What I am showing is that faith is not in a God, but, as in your case the scripture of the bible, the faith is only in the words, the only place God is seen to manifest.
edit on 1-6-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
But to make myself more clear, it involves a faith in the very words and propositions that state that here first is a God, and not faith in God as such, or as something we have experienced outside of the language that describes to us what God is. This assumption is based on your metaphysics, the whole promise of "God exists", and is a matter of taste or indoctrination, and not the fact of the matter, nor something you creatively contrived. This faith in a God, derived only from scripture or priestly rhetoric, is at best and in truth, faith not in God, but only in the language and words he exists within.
God exists by not existing. Until you find nothingness you will be full of ideas and have only an idea about what the word 'God' means.edit on 1-6-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by spy66
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
But to make myself more clear, it involves a faith in the very words and propositions that state that here first is a God, and not faith in God as such, or as something we have experienced outside of the language that describes to us what God is. This assumption is based on your metaphysics, the whole promise of "God exists", and is a matter of taste or indoctrination, and not the fact of the matter, nor something you creatively contrived. This faith in a God, derived only from scripture or priestly rhetoric, is at best and in truth, faith not in God, but only in the language and words he exists within.
God exists by not existing. Until you find nothingness you will be full of ideas and have only an idea about what the word 'God' means.edit on 1-6-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)
God exists by not existing?
God must exist if God exists. God can not be not existing and existing at the same time.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
But to make myself more clear, it involves a faith in the very words and propositions that state that here first is a God, and not faith in God as such, or as something we have experienced outside of the language that describes to us what God is.
Yes, that is also how I see it, but I do not regard it as a barrier to accepting the possibility that a way exists to confirm for oneself the existence of metaphysical realities. For me, the proposition that God exists is an hypothesis, though one I am prepared to spend quite some time testing and investigating. Why would anyone have a problem with this?
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by MaryStillToe
Thank you for reading.
It seems like you are saying that the concept of God is and has been created by the minds of men. For your example, you say that Orcs, Middle Earth, and Sauron were all creations of Tolkien's imagination. However, if that's true, then that also points to your own existence being the creation of someone else's imagination, correct? Wouldn't we call that figure God and wouldn't he be just as real as your consider Tolkien?
I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion, but I don't think my example points to me being anything other than the one reading Tolkien's words. It seems to be a rather large leap to infer from reading some words in a book that we are the ideas of God. But if I understand the language and your metaphysics, I can interpret your statement as meaning the exact same thing as me saying I'm a product of the universe. We're talking about the same thing but in a different language.
But to make myself more clear, it involves a faith in the very words and propositions that state that here first is a God, and not faith in God as such, or as something we have experienced outside of the language that describes to us what God is. This assumption is based on your metaphysics, the whole promise of "God exists", and is a matter of taste or indoctrination, and not the fact of the matter, nor something you creatively contrived. This faith in a God, derived only from scripture or priestly rhetoric, is at best and in truth, faith not in God, but only in the language and words he exists within.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain
God exists by not existing. Until you find nothingness you will be full of ideas and have only an idea about God.
The exact same could be said of nothingness.