Anarchism and the non-aggression principle

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

c

But, it also seems to me that the term "social anarchism" is not only an oxymoron in a literal sense...but also just as unlikely. For anarchists to function within some sort of social framework, the framework itself would have to be established. Rules would have to be made (by whom amongst the leaderless anarchists?), and then enforced (an anarchist police force and court system?).

which is why I said human society is too immature for full anarchism.

c

Not to be pesky about such things, but who is it that will be supplying all of this unlimited free energy and free unlimited resources? Are you saying that men of science, or social do-gooders will just spring forward and create the technologies, and the equipment, and the delivery systems, and the maintenance resources required...and do it all for nothing?

read my post. I said machine worker class. Again read my post about orbital solar arrays and quasi-"free" energy.

And will we have another layer of altruistic component and parts suppliers...who will build factories on their own dime (not that there will be a monetary system in place which would lend meaning to the word dime)...and pop out endless quantities of whatever is needed, and give it all away too?

You don't have to pay a machine. Come on...

And no doubt, the workers in these factories will not only show up voluntarily on a regular basis, but they will provide their labours free of charge too - and they will be able to, of course, because food and housing will be free as well (will give new meaning to the term "poor farmer"...and slum lords will magically transform into shelter saints).

Again you don't have to pay a machine.

-c-

And these orbital solar arrays...for example...would just spring into being all on their own? No Governments to set standards...no universities (another offshoot of Government), or private research groups (without capitalism, why would anyone invest in creating new technologies)...no space agencies (or private ones) to launch them into orbit...nobody to build and manage the electrical grids that they would supply...

The people a business or a state would invest in orbital solar arrays. universities are not an offshoot of government they are charities that are funded by government which is then funded by the people

And...are these asteroids you speak of just going to softly touch down on earth by themselves, and spontaneously begin to shed precious substances?

No a crew of machine ai workers mine them and bring them back from the asteroid belt to be refined on earth

I could comment further on your "needs list", but I think everybody gets the point here

c

Well unless you are hoping to make wholesale changes to the DNA of the human species, which will remove our tendencies to be selfish (it's part of the survival instinct)

people can learn to be unselfish. Capitalism promotes greed over selflessness

...and our desires to not only keep up with the Jones', but to always be a step ahead of them. Unless you are going to somehow eradicate from the species,

more of "this violence to create change" from you statists...

the tendencies of many to "achieve" and to "get ahead" and to "provide for their families".

You can still have achievement and progress it just won't have the huge incentive it once had

Unless you are somehow going to effect a wholesale cure for narcissists, socio paths and psychopaths (who make up a healthy percentage of those who end up in charge of things...as well as commit a lot of crimes).

with a government comprised of machines and decentralized electronic ai systems I doubt they would have the capacity of human personality disorders

Forget for a moment (though you shouldn't completely forget) the Hiltlers, and Stalins and Idi Amins of the world...how are you going to eradicate the people who have the tendencies that made people like Rockefeller, Trump, Ford, Jobs, Bush, Obama, Clinton etc., etc. extremely rich and/or powerful.
Unless you can curb all of this (which you cannot) your social anarchism will have a shelf life of about a nano second.
With machines running the framework of the society you would not have any of those leaders or rulers

SNIP

You know, just because you can dream about jumping off of a building and flying...doesn't mean that you really can.
So you agree that we are too immature as a society to govern ourselves? Your dreaming if you think that the current sad state of social parasitism is the pentacle of human achievement. Eventually we will out grow the need for a government. But not until we have a higher level of technology. We're too immature and reliant on it "helping" us.

We have to outgrow the need for a government. We're too immature for true anarchism

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

You don't have to force a machine to work in a mine or oil fields do you?

No, but you do have to build the machine first. How do you get to the point where the machines can build themselves, if not first through mass conscription of human labor? Do the ends justify the means?

reply to post by NthOther


Its a transition. You have to get there in steps over a period of time with certain advances in technology.

First you have the current system. oligarchical corporatism with a fake candy coat of representative republic.
Extremely high state powers.High emphasis on economic competition and hording limited resources.

Then you phase into libertarian statism. Extremely limited state powers. low emphasis on economic competition and hording resources. We can do this now. Easily.

Then you phase into libertarian technocracy. State powers are completely decentralized and mechanized. Part of the ai state central node(there are millions of ai nodes) is wired into the human group collective via decoded brain wave patterns and information data collection. Very low emphasis on economic competition and hording resources.

Then the final phase anarcho-technocracy. Humans fully integrate with the machine-state nodes.There is virtually no competition because the machine state is designed to produce to your needs. You're are still you but the machine state freely produces for your need,negotiates conflict, and protects you from harm .

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


A mechanized society that is integrated with the people is better than a flawed human ran government that is not integrated with anything. Everything is automated.

Techno-anarchism is pretty cool.

reply to post by NthOther



Let me clearify what I am trying to propose.

Q:First what is anarchism?
A: A system of no rulers. Not no rules. Not no government. No monopoly of force.

Q: What is "no rulers"?
A: A system of social agreement that makes the individual the dictator(no matter what someone/something will be the dictator). Instead of a centralized entity of some form being the dictator.

Q:Wait I thought government is the opposite of anarchism? Don't anarchists want a no government?
A:For the most part no...

A centralized entity of power(government,monarch,empire,despot,dictator,yosemite sam etc) that rules over the individual and dominates force is not supported.
A centralized entity that is truely ruled by the individual(public is the dictator) is supported under anarchism.
Why?
Because the individual is NOT ruled. The individual rules over the government. The public is subject to force by the government but the government is constructed of, maintained by, payed for, and legitimized by the individual.

The minute the individual(random everyday people) stops playing along the government(a group of individuals that agree that they are the government)will cease to exist.

Same with capitalism and fiat money.

Same with damn near anything we create.

Anarchism already exists somewhat. Its the monopoly of force that keeps us from true anarchism.

If a government was just machines and we had access to semi-free energy(orbital solar arrays. These are not solar panels) and free work(machine workers). There would be no monopoly of force by any one person or entity.

And thus you have true anarchism.