Service to Self versus Service to Others - A lot more than just service! JOY versus LOVE, Which woul

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Hopechest

 

I have a simple preference from myself and all others, and that preference is that we are all happy. If I turn it into a desire then it will just be another longing/yearning.

The way it appears is that those who are Service to Others will keep being used by those who are Service to Self - and those who are Service to Self will just do whatever they want without caring about how they are manipulating/controlling others.

Justice seems to be the only thing that can give an equal platform for all to reach their happiness, but even that is short-lived as we can see with human history. Forgiveness seems to be the only Spiritual relief.

Just because you forgive or are forgiven do not mean the debt is canceled. Some people on this planet are doing things now days that will have very long consequences for them and are quite shortsighted. One thing about karma is that when you know the price that comes for some things that are service to self, they become very undesirable because the pain and work you have to do later, just makes it not worth it. What might seem like a good idea at the time can be the biggest mistake in the long run. The system was meant to give you as much rope/freedom as possible to hang yourself. The more you understand the more you reject some tools/possibilities/behaviour in the toolbox since they are not wise to use.

reply to post by LittleByLittle


If you are forgiving others then what "debt" are you holding them in?

True forgiveness does not hold on to bitterness and revenge.

Nothing you see here is you. It is all one notyou. It really doesnt matter what you choose because the one you think is choosing is not really the one choosing. The whole thing is in perfect harmony. Everything you do fits perfectly with what everyone else does because there is one doing it all. Nothing you see here is you. Nothing you see here is the one doing this. This is being done by something outside of this what you see. Everything is done on purpose by one.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

If you are forgiving others then what "debt" are you holding them in?

True forgiveness does not hold on to bitterness and revenge.

It does not have to do with the person forgiving but the one who was forgiven. There is a balance that need to be fixed and a knowing in the one that is forgiven that it has not fixed it's mistakes. It has more to do with the self value of the forgiven one and taking responsibility than about the person who is forgiving.

Even souls that humans are very angry at like Hitler and Stalin will one day shine and will be helped to shine and encouraged to fix their mistakes. It just takes longer for some to reach it unfortunately.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Maybe you are right. We do not choose our desires - they just arise with life. Liking food is not free-will you like the sensation and therefore are compelled to eat that food rather than another.

Will is happening but it isn't free. It is made directly from life experiences and then choices are made based on knowledge and life experiences that already happened.

Regardless, this body is me if I'm going to be the one suffering in the pain that it feels...

Originally posted by LordDerpingtonSmythe
What if what I want to do for myself directly or indirectly causes loss of joy and love in others ?

Should I then worry about others or ignore it in order to reach my desired goals ?

Maybe we should but what you speak of is another condition all together. Should someone's drug habit effect ect ect, well know. However driven folks can and often do make a way for others or opportunity anyway.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

If you are forgiving others then what "debt" are you holding them in?

True forgiveness does not hold on to bitterness and revenge.

We would hope that at some point those we need to forgive will come to some sense over it and reflect upon themselves. I see to may of these threads where everything is placed in the lap of those that need to forgive. Hows about a thread on not getting yourself in a position where someone needs to pull your azz out of the fire every time you turn around. And another on restitution and the price of restitution. And another thread that looks into forgiving those who can do something for us and then turning around and dumping on some low life. I mean its easy to forgive someone that makes it worth your while but for the crack head that robs your house....well he needs a good kick in the ass right?

In STO/STS I understood the idea to represent one only needed to be 51% STO to "pass" through this dimension?

reply to post by Logarock


That is a judgment. There is no objective morality.


Good and bad is made up and you only feel that way due to your emotions.

Remember, negative emotions and thoughts will compel you to negative actions - not that anything is wrong with that but if you want a life of peace it is better to let go. All preferences.

Hows about this picture. How many times have you seen someone that just messes up every time they turn around and yet there is always someone there holding out a hand and giving them chance after second chance. I mean someone is hoping to bring the best out in a person and wishes to bring out the value in them and show them they have value.

But the let someone come in without all the baggage and you will see them get kicked around the dance floor over nothing. Little ego points or you name it. You know? Its so easy to help the poor as it were as it makes us feel better but then we laugh when our dog #zz on the uppity neighbors lawn though he has never imposed on you really.

reply to post by Logarock


Meh. I don't laugh, it is just human/animal nature.

By the way, laughing at another's misfortune (poop being on their lawn and happy about it since you don't like them)... that is a form of subtle revenge (not picking it up as compensation).

Now that will probably cause them to hold onto anger and have more unhappiness in life.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

Between Giving (Service to Others) and Taking (Service to Self) - Sharing seems to be the perfect balance, I guess.

I would say service to self one realizes that which is taken isn't from the outside but comes from within and that which is given also comes from within, but doesn't really ever leave and make it to the outside. How much I would want there to be an equally meaningful and deep sounding second line because of the board rules alas I wish it were so.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Logarock

 

That is a judgment. There is no objective morality.


Good and bad is made up and you only feel that way due to your emotions.

Remember, negative emotions and thoughts will compel you to negative actions - not that anything is wrong with that but if you want a life of peace it is better to let go. All preferences.

I see that as conditional morality which is how most folks operate. The morality is found on both sides of it.....whats it going to do for me? It seems that the doing must answer some need be it feeling good about helping the poor or rushing to insure that some profitable gain is not scuttled because of a "misunderstanding". These are not just emotion but having an eye out for self in both cases. Like hay is Jesus watching me help this poor guy over here and hay I better watch how I handle this riff with a rich guy because he throws me a bone now and again. Its all very practical azz covering.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Logarock

 

Meh. I don't laugh, it is just human/animal nature.

By the way, laughing at another's misfortune (poop being on their lawn and happy about it since you don't like them)... that is a form of subtle revenge (not picking it up as compensation).

Now that will probably cause them to hold onto anger and have more unhappiness in life.

Ok good. What I am saying is that most will seek some form of revenge were it suits them and take the good out on the other end in sort of a balancing act. They toss poor Lazarus some bread crumbs on the way to work and then go out in the competitive world and seek to strangle their competition.....as if that answers some higher calling. As if they are covering all bases on their path to self realization.

Originally posted by Hopechest
Buddha also addresses this by saying that a person can change their desires through enlightenment to reach that stage where you do desire to help others and in turn help yourself.

It only makes sense if one has finished one's own home they visit others and if the home of those visited isn't finished give advice about it, why invent the wheel again. To live in a town with infinite resources where everyone's home is finished, at least the necessities adds to joy compared to being in a town where homes are flimsy and incomplete or even with homeless being there if only because people don't have time to do anything else but work on their home or look for shelter.

Too bad for anyone with a finished house it's difficult to give advice to anybody without sounding like a smartass or a wannabe Jesus/Buddha/any religious figure with acknowledged merit. But once all houses are finished or at least sufficient enough to live in forever is when the partying can begin.

reply to post by Logarock


If you are only being nice because Jesus is watching you, then you aren't a nice person you're a fake mean person.
Some people do nice things for others because of empathy it just doesn't feel right to just watch people around you suffering - that is the built in empathy of most humans and social creatures.

reply to post by arpgme


And it used to be the law. You couldn't watch some languish and do nothing without breaking the law. And it went much further than that. If you had a sibling that lost their inheritance by some means, hook or crook, you were required to restore that sibling to standing. Also under the law poor folks had the right to ask for help and you had to give it.

Now we heard so much about the mean nasty things in the law as some would have it but if you ask me it were the laws like the one above that turned the people from the law.

reply to post by arpgme


According to Law of One, the two groups will diverge and learn the complexities of their respective paths. Eventually, they will be reunited as they realize their paths are incomplete without each other - a stage known as "Compassionate Wisdom". The genius in this is that both approaches are centered around ambiguous principles. The key is duality, and grasping the polar nature of reality and how that affects our creative power and awareness.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Duality is the world we already live in. I don't understand the purpose of causing separation and then causing reintegration. If it does happen it is probably just the cycle of the universe.

Thanks, man. I think you are on to something here. I think about this all the time - somehow finding a way to balance the two. Check out my philosophy, it is what I am working on at the moment.

One thing - helping others is kind of a control mechanism. If you are helping someone else, you are kind of making them dependent on you, or maybe you are being used.

In any case, a healthy knowledge of reciprocity / boundaries makes any relationship a lot better for everyone involved!

That's why I advocate everyone having their own resources, that way, when they come together, they can meet up on even terms and actually have a healthy relationship with themselves and others.

Hey, I have a pretty damn good chart I drew once for ATS!