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Now required to ask patients of suicidal thoughts??

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posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by opethPA

How is that even close to the same?


Because it's just as random as asking someone who came in with wrist pain if they're suicidal.

But, let me help you out a bit. You're apparently having trouble seeing the comparison. So let's say you go to the store and buy a box of matches. Let's require the cashier to look you in the eye and ask you if you're an arsonist. Hey. You never know. One time out of a hundred thousand, someone buying matches might be an arsonist. So the question is justified under the same logic. How should you feel if you sold a box of matches to an arsonist without asking them what they intend to do with them?


I just don't get why anyone , other than paranoid gun ownerssupporters, would be bothered by a clinician in a hospital setting trying to find out information about symptoms being presented


1. If gun owners are the slightest bit paranoid, it kind of makes sense. I don't know. Call me crazy but when there is an obvious agenda to ban guns by people who are associated with a political ideology that has a strong history of mass murder, I think a little bit of paranoia is probably justified. Gee. Why would anyone be paranoid about socialists (And face it, that's exactly what most antigunners are) trying to ban guns?

2. Wrist pain is not an indication of suicide and has nothing to do with it unless the person obviously cut their wrists and went to the ER bleeding all over the place.

3. You just don't get it? Oh well. You're not trying very hard. Keep reading 1984 as many times as you need to. Maybe someday you'll just get it.


If you feel that a question like that will ruin your future, even though it won't , then get up and leave and go to a different hospital/ACC where they won't ask such a horrible question.


I don't feel that it will ruin my future. I think it's creepy.
edit on 2-6-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by BrianFlanders
 


Read the rest of my posts in this thread for my "professional" qualifications to address this issue.

I have FIRST HAND experience dealing with suicidal people - some of whom were open about it, and others who never let on. I also know the aftermath for the survivors. I know FROM THE INSIDE how hospitals operate, the protocols and tasks of admission and intake interviewing. Do you? Didn't think so.

I'm on a conspiracy site to educate people and disabuse them of their hysterical assumptions, especially those who make alarmist claims that are NOT BASED in reality.

Your private doctor would not ask you that question, because he KNOWS YOU. We are talking about an ER intake nurse here. Two VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. A stranger who has NO KNOWLEDGE of the presenting client or their life history.

You can dismiss me if you want, though, that's fine. Go ahead with your bizarre paranoia. People don't go to ERs to get gun licenses.
Whatever, that's all I have to say here.

OP is overreacting and accusing helping professionals of some dire conspiratorial plot to disarm people - and the truth is that they AREN'T IN THE GUN CONTROL BUSINESS and may not even pay attention to government tyranny conspiracies. Get a grip.



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I couldn't agree more with what you are saying as someone who has worked as a ER nurse (A&E here in the UK)

If someone comes in it is entirely acceptable and its only right to ask a patient if they have been having suicidal thoughts, tried to kill themselves or deliberately harmed themselves.

the problem with ATS, as i keep saying is that we have way to many people on ATS who THINK they know everything about anything when i reality they know nothing about anything. take this thread right here as a example you and I are both health care professionals who have worked in this type of area. We know why these questions need to be asked yet the tin-foil hat cronies like to think they know better.

honestly if i was you i would just stop posting in this thread, know when to stop posting is just as important ask knowing when to post. if these people want to basque in their own ignorance, let them!



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by BrianFlanders
 


Read the rest of my posts in this thread for my "professional" qualifications to address this issue.

I have FIRST HAND experience dealing with suicidal people - some of whom were open about it, and others who never let on. I also know the aftermath for the survivors. I know FROM THE INSIDE how hospitals operate, the protocols and tasks of admission and intake interviewing. Do you? Didn't think so.

I'm on a conspiracy site to educate people and disabuse them of their hysterical assumptions, especially those who make alarmist claims that are NOT BASED in reality.


Check this out and tell me there is no realistic basis for concern here.

The bottom line is that I'd rather be "paranoid" and cautious and be wrong than be completely unconcerned and be wrong.

And frankly, why waste your time if you don't believe there's anything to it? If every conspiracy theory on this site is completely wrong, 99% of the world will go on completely unbothered by anything that is said here or ever has been. If it's all paranoid delusions, there is nothing to worry about.

I enjoy forums like this one and I happen to believe something seriously stinks in this world today but you know what? I hope I'm wrong. That is why I'm here. Because I honestly don't know the truth. But I think I have a pretty good nose and I just am having a hard time swallowing what I'm being fed.


Your private doctor would not ask you that question, because he KNOWS YOU. We are talking about an ER intake nurse here. Two VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. A stranger who has NO KNOWLEDGE of the presenting client or their life history.


OK. But that's still an authority figure that most people respect and feel obligated to be honest with. Agree or disagree?


You can dismiss me if you want, though, that's fine. Go ahead with your bizarre paranoia. People don't go to ERs to get gun licenses.


You might want to read this carefully

(Note - It helps if you keep the fact that Obama is a master of lies and deception while you read this. Read between the lines)


OP is overreacting and accusing helping professionals of some dire conspiratorial plot to disarm people - and the truth is that they AREN'T IN THE GUN CONTROL BUSINESS and may not even pay attention to government tyranny conspiracies. Get a grip.


You mean you aren't even going to mention a tin foil hat? What kind of armchair psychiatrist are you?
edit on 2-6-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-6-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by wildtimes
 



If someone comes in it is entirely acceptable and its only right to ask a patient if they have been having suicidal thoughts, tried to kill themselves or deliberately harmed themselves.


And yet I haven't seen a single reason why this is "only right" to ask this random question to every person who goes to the ER. I have seen a bunch of pathetic excuses that sound sort of plausible but fall apart in today's statist, authoritarian environment.

It's not that easy to sue a hospital for malpractice. You might as well ask patients if they're sure they look both ways before they cross the street.


the problem with ATS, as i keep saying is that we have way to many people on ATS who THINK they know everything about anything when i reality they know nothing about anything.


I'm going to have to disagree with you there. The problem with ATS is that so many of it's posters live in countries where the government wants to know everything and control every little detail of their lives.

So. You got us. We're a little paranoid. Please forgive us for being a bit creeped by these kinds of questions in a country where things like this happen


take this thread right here as a example you and I are both health care professionals who have worked in this type of area.


Oh really? So did you know that you generally can't cure paranoid delusions by simply telling the person they're not real?


We know why these questions need to be asked yet the tin-foil hat cronies like to think they know better.


Correction. You know the reasons that you've been given why they supposedly need to be asked. But if you believed the reasons were fabricated by people who planned to use the medical field as a control apparatus, you might not find them so easy to believe. Or you probably would. Oh well.

And you get a gold star for dragging out the good old "tin foil hat" thing. I hate to tell you this but tin foil hats don't block light from falling upon optical receptors.


I'm also pretty sure they don't call it tin anymore.



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by BrianFlanders
 


I am going to tell you this once and only once,

When i worked in a A&E department (and in other health care areas) I would regularly ask my patients if they had ever had any suicidal thoughts or attempted to harm themselves in anyway. I would say I asked most patients this unless it was not appropriate.

The reason that I would so this is because in A&E a very large proportion of patients come in with deliberate self-inflicted injuries and as a member of the team looking after them i needed to know how they injured themselves. As such the question of asking " have you ever had suicidal thoughts" or "have you ever harmed yourself deliberately" became very normal.

Most of the time if someone said yes or told me their injury was a deliberate act of self harm/suicide attempt I would offer them the services of our mental health team. This usually consisted of them speaking to our mental health liaison nurse and nothing more would come of it. At times we would seek to have person sectioned under the Mental Health Act if we had evidence to support our view that should they be let out of hospital care they would harm themselves or others as a result of their mental state. Other than that very rare situation no one had any medication forced upon them and we did not have to shear our finding outside of the health service if they did not want us to. This was all made very clear to the patient.

Another reason this was important to ask in our department is because we had a couple of instances were we found people attempting suicide in the department.

please stop with the armchair nursing.

you are not a health care professional and as such you are not in a position to dictate to us what questions we should and should not be asking.

you are not obligated to answer any questions you don't want to answer.
edit on 2-6-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by Sway33
 


It is just a standard question that has proven useful in helping many people in the past personally I think it should be followed up with the question of “do you feel like there are forces out to get you?”

You may think that is tongue and cheek but I am serious although I think sites like this would experience a drop in attendance over time as people got help.

If it ever happens I look forward to reading the inevitable thread that will be created about it.

edit to add


HaHa I posted this after only reading half of the first page then read a few posts on this one. This page illustrates my point exactly. I just found it funny is all.

edit on 2-6-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by BrianFlanders
Because it's just as random as asking someone who came in with wrist pain if they're suicidal.


I am suicidal and I just tried to hang myself. In the process of doing that, the rope broke and I jammed my wrist.
On another day life has me so beaten down that I am at my wits end and I proceed to punch my wall a few times, now my wrist hurts. Yup, couldn't happen so I am glad to see you have it all solved as to where wrist pain comes from.



1. If gun owners are the slightest bit paranoid, it kind of makes sense. I don't know. Call me crazy but when there is an obvious agenda to ban guns by people who are associated with a political ideology that has a strong history of mass murder, I think a little bit of paranoia is probably justified. Gee. Why would anyone be paranoid about socialists (And face it, that's exactly what most antigunners are) trying to ban guns?


When were guns banned in America? Oh wait they haven't been but gun owners have been screaming for years , "they are coming for my guns!"

Keeping in mind that I do not believe guns should be banned but I am also not a gun owner so I really have no tangible stake in that argument


Wrist pain is not an indication of suicide and has nothing to do with it unless the person obviously cut their wrists and went to the ER bleeding all over the place.


Wrong but you know it all so whats the point in even trying to debate it.


3. You just don't get it? Oh well. You're not trying very hard. Keep reading 1984 as many times as you need to. Maybe someday you'll just get it.


I wouldn't think you had time to read given the fact that you should spend all your time protecting your land from the Govt who are showing up at any second to take your guns.


I don't feel that it will ruin my future. I think it's creepy.


Yup, clinicians asking for information to help directing them to a diagnoses certainly is creepy.


edit on 2-6-2013 by opethPA because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-6-2013 by opethPA because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




Those with ideation or behavior who DO disclose, do so to get help. My opinion and experience.


I can fully agree with this as it was my experience.I would not be here today had I not disclosed what was happening to me, it would of over run my senses and I would of died.

I wish more people were more trusting of the mental health system, and the good it does do for those who truly want help.

I think you explained it pretty well even if people do not accept your answers.

I do, and to me this issue is dead.
Best of luck carrying this torch!
Someones gotta do it!



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 05:58 PM
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Now that I think about it if someone actually went to the ER for a sprained wrist of all things questioning them on their mental stability would be a no brainer.



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
Now that I think about it if someone actually went to the ER for a sprained wrist of all things questioning them on their mental stability would be a no brainer.


I don't know. Once when I was in school, we were playing kickball and I twisted my ankle somehow. The pain was pretty unbelievable. And the swelling was actually scary. I have been pretty careful and smart about things that hurt you in my life but I still ended up with a number of injuries. Few things I have endured stand out like that one.

Obviously they can't do anything you can't do at home unless something is broken or something. But I can see how the pain might be bad enough to send someone to the ER.
edit on 2-6-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2013 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

I gave you a star but these questions are now mandatory in even an ambulatory setting.


2nd



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 03:33 PM
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Right on cue. Can we stop with the denials now?



Originally posted by opethPA

I am suicidal and I just tried to hang myself. In the process of doing that, the rope broke and I jammed my wrist.
On another day life has me so beaten down that I am at my wits end and I proceed to punch my wall a few times, now my wrist hurts. Yup, couldn't happen so I am glad to see you have it all solved as to where wrist pain comes from.


Well, you know how it is. Let's say you go to the store to buy a knife. The obvious conclusion is that you are either suicidal or homicidal and it just wouldn't be right for them to let you out the door with it without interrogating you as to just exactly what you intend to do with it.

Heaven forbid you should go to buy a gun! Dear lord! If a sprained wrist is an indication of a suicide attempt what will trying to buy a gun be indicative of?


When were guns banned in America? Oh wait they haven't been but gun owners have been screaming for years , "they are coming for my guns!"


Unless you're a complete fool, I don't see how you can deny what's going on when they talk about "gun control". Look up "euphemism" and get back to me.

I am certain you will try to clear up this misunderstanding by informing me that they don't really want to ban guns. Just keep them out of the hands of "bad people" and "sick people" (naturally). But what you won't say (or will fail to comprehend) is that they will then get to define "bad people" and "sick people" so they can arbitrarily ban certain people from owning them. At that point, all they have to do is keep fabricating mental illnesses and designating them as "No guns for YOU!" disorders and it's a de facto ban. Now please tell me why I'm wrong.


Keeping in mind that I do not believe guns should be banned but I am also not a gun owner so I really have no tangible stake in that argument


I am not a gun owner either but I'm not foolish enough to believe I have no stake in it.


I wouldn't think you had time to read given the fact that you should spend all your time protecting your land from the Govt who are showing up at any second to take your guns.


Did you at least read the link I posted in my previous post about the political abuse of psychiatry in Soviet Russia?

Once again. If you are truly trying to have an honest debate here and you wonder why this is creeping some people out, you owe it to yourself to read this before you just keep dismissing people's arguments out of hand.


Yup, clinicians asking for information to help directing them to a diagnoses certainly is creepy.


If I didn't ask for a diagnosis on my mental state when I have gone in for something completely unrelated, I probably just don't want it.

And let's try to put this into terms that maybe you can understand better. Let's say you accidentally chop the tip of your finger off with a saw. You naturally go to the ER to see what can be done about it. They ask you if you're having any thoughts of raping someone. Well, hey. You never know. Again, once in a few thousand cases, they might treat a rapist for an unrelated injury.
edit on 3-6-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by BrianFlanders
Right on cue. Can we stop with the denials now?





Heaven forbid you should go to buy a gun! Dear lord! If a sprained wrist is an indication of a suicide attempt what will trying to buy a gun be indicative of?


Pleas tell me where it was said that a sprained wrist is an indication of a suicide attempt.
Asking if you have suicidal attempts for anyone that comes into an ER is not the same thing as declaring this person tried to commit suicide.


Unless you're a complete fool, I don't see how you can deny what's going on when they talk about "gun control". Look up "euphemism" and get back to me.


Are these the same talks about gun control I have been hearing for years now? Still don't see the Govt showing at my door or setting up road blocks taking our guns.


Did you at least read the link I posted in my previous post about the political abuse of psychiatry in Soviet Russia?


Must be that I am brainwashed by where I work and every ER nurse and doctor that I am friends with here said it's standard operating procedure. I forgot how you know better than they do though and how they are lying because its creepy to you vs helping them form a picture of the symptoms being presented.


And let's try to put this into terms that maybe you can understand better.

Some people would fine a statement like that insulting..Too bad I don't or I am sure we could have some fun throwing insults around.

If it's so creepy, don't answer the question..


edit on 3-6-2013 by opethPA because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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Before I begin with this post, I'd like to point out that this was not really meant to be some kind of contest where somebody wins. I am trying to reason with you and demonstrate why I think and feel the way I do. And also why people are concerned about this.


Originally posted by opethPA
Please tell me where it was said that a sprained wrist is an indication of a suicide attempt.
Asking if you have suicidal attempts for anyone that comes into an ER is not the same thing as declaring this person tried to commit suicide.


Here is what you wrote in your last post...


I am suicidal and I just tried to hang myself. In the process of doing that, the rope broke and I jammed my wrist. On another day life has me so beaten down that I am at my wits end and I proceed to punch my wall a few times, now my wrist hurts. Yup, couldn't happen so I am glad to see you have it all solved as to where wrist pain comes from.



Are these the same talks about gun control I have been hearing for years now? Still don't see the Govt showing at my door or setting up road blocks taking our guns.


Yes. They are the same talks. And the gun control agenda has been progressively expanding all the while. Ever heard of the Boiling Frog Metaphor?.

Do skyscrapers appear overnight? Do shopping malls appear in the blink of an eye? Do human beings take on any large project in a day? No. Of course not. Why would a political agenda that aims to ban guns in a country of 300+ million be any different? Obviously, they are not going to do the door to door thing unless they want trouble. They're going to be sneaky little bastards and do it in phases and use different techniques spread out over a period of time. That's how you ban guns if you want to be sneaky about it.

Re-read my last post to supplement what I just said. Now they will claim they need to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill and start creating new mental illnesses. Wait and see.


Must be that I am brainwashed by where I work and every ER nurse and doctor that I am friends with here said it's standard operating procedure. I forgot how you know better than they do though and how they are lying because its creepy to you vs helping them form a picture of the symptoms being presented.


I don't care where you work. You can't brush documented history aside by telling me you work in the ER. Who cares? If it can happen once (and it's happened more than once and is still happening in some countries) it can happen again.

At any rate, I take this to mean that you didn't read any of that and so it is apparently pointless to argue with you.


If it's so creepy, don't answer the question..


Maybe I just won't go to the hospital to begin with. After all, if I don't trust medical professionals, I don't want them anywhere near me with sharp objects and drugs. Again, if you don't want people to trust the medical profession, you're doing the right thing by denying there's any reason for concern.

edit on 3-6-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by cry93
 


I understand. I've been out of the field for 7 years now.
Thanks for the 'star, though. Keep fighting the good fight!
I've moved on to other things. It just seems so hopelessly difficult to try to help, with all this "conspiracy hatred" against medical practitioners......"physical health" as well as "mental health"......

I don't doubt for a minute that it's now in place in ambulatory facilities.....
Been through that process as well..... but had to TELL THEM, "this person is suicidal and homicidal".....



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 03:09 AM
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reply to post by cry93
 

you're confused but that's ok, let me clarify.
I AM one of those patients and i KNOW many others.
are you following along or should i draw you a map ?

and guess what ?? patients talk with each other, just like you psycho-types do.
and, in a private conversation, HIPAA doesn't apply.
try again.

96 ??? years ago maybe.
try early 70s for the 1st time and the rest is a nunya.

my reference to 96 is when HIPAA was enacted or haven't you learned that yet ?

your truth isn't mine so quit trying so hard, it's never gonna happen, thank goodness.
honestly, you psycho-types really give me a rash.

what is funny is that you didn't even know what a TBI was until i specified ... so go on with your silly self, i'm sure a few are enjoying it.

here's 5 points for you too.
1. get a clue
2. get a life
3. ask and receive
4. say thank you
5. and maybe one day you'll actually learn something.

the questions have never been legit but this current fishing expedition goes beyond 4th Amendment protections and NO ONE should answer them unless they really WANT psyche help.
physical injury is just that and should require applicable treatment, end of story.

a CT ??? now that's revealing

carry on.

you come across as one of those paranoid types that whips out a questionaire if asked for a band-aid


ps ... way back when ... girls used to be 'tomboys' without the ASSumption they were experiencing a gender identity crisis, but alas, those days are long gone ... sad indeed ... no wonder depression is such a hit these days


ETA - not that it matters or anything, it was soooo very long ago ... but, i fell out of a tree some 30+ ft and landed in/on a thorny rose bed ... hospitalized for quite awhile but they NEVER asked me if i was suicidal, gee i wonder why.
edit on 5-6-2013 by Honor93 because: add txt



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

ooooohhhhh, you got one right

at least one of you is paying attention, congrats.

hmmm, internet diagnosing really isn't your thing, honest.

what would be really grand is if you actually knew WHO was self-disclosing what but, you keep thinking you do ... one day you might learn the truth.

hmmmmmmm, which injuries, exactly ?
oh, so experience doesn't count, eh ??
then what are you working from, a booklet of maybees ... did it ever occur to you that such injuries did provide an excellent reference from which to counsel (officially) others ??

passing a test was the easy part

what i do with the license is my business, not yours.

so, let me get this straight ... in your opinion, a TBI prevents said party from obtaining licensure ???
if so, you might want to check with the 'board' before you renew your certs.

let's just leave it with ... you are so clueless it's downright scary.

please, rest your confused head on my couch and we'll see just how skilled we are, eh ??
i have a few questions for you




posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 03:57 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Your private doctor would not ask you that question, because he KNOWS YOU. We are talking about an ER intake nurse here. Two VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. A stranger who has NO KNOWLEDGE of the presenting client or their life history.
well, that does it for me.
i almost believed ya but you said the above, not me.

good luck in your endeavor, i don't visualize much success for ya, but hey, every effort is a worthy one.

and ya know, it's true that ppl don't get gun licenses at the ER but they sure do bring'em in, don't they ??
sometimes, they're even wearing their weapons upon arrival ... does that make them a 'threat' in your view ? suicidal or homicidal, your choice.

hmmmm, psyche professionals not interested in CT ???
do they even exist ?
if so, i can honestly say that i've never met one who wasn't enthralled with CT.

and you're here so how do you figure the majority aren't or at least posing (not a typo) in another forum ?
ya know, a very wise man once said ... Be the Change you wish to see.



posted on Jun, 5 2013 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by BrianFlanders
 

Northwestern ??
that's all i needed to read.
i better call the family and check in ... they may have some questions that need answered



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