Now required to ask patients of suicidal thoughts??

reply to post by Sway33

Personally I would never answer yes to this question even if I was having thoughts, and im sure there are many people with me that would do the exact same thing.

all joking aside in my experience whenever i have asked someone if they have been having suicidal thoughts or tried to kill themselves they have been very honest and admitted that they wanted to kill themselves or have thought about doing so.

don't get me wrong there will be quite a lot who will lie but quite a lot of people just tell the truth.

Originally posted by Sway33
Your mental health will be used against you for your entire life. Every background check, every police contact made. The question is not a private one, it will never be between only you and your doctor. That is the problem.

In what world?

When I was younger like everyone else I went through bad times and thought mine were the worse so i tried something dumb where my mental and emotional state were questioned and documented.

When I got my DoD clearance that issue never came up.
When I started my current job and needed specific clearance for that plus various background checks, it never came up.

You can live in a world of fear and paranoia if you want but an intake clinician at a ACC or ER asking if you have suicidal thoughts makes total sense to me.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Sway33

 

I dont know about you guys but that sends off a red flag for me. Answering yes to that one question has deep and lifelong lasting repercutions. And my question is if anyone knows why they are doing this??

This is a standard question used in mental health clinics. People who are service providers like medicine, as well as teachers, are "MANDATED REPORTERS." They are bound by law to report to the authorities if a person is a danger to self or others, or if they suspect abuse or neglect.

This mandate overrides confidentiality, and most providers tell you up front. Most states have their own laws regarding who is a m.r. and who isn't. Lawyers and clergy are presently not mandated. The M.R. can be held liable if you tell them you are suicidal or homicidal and they don't report it - in some cases they'll ask the client to sign a statement that they 'won't do this' in between sessions. In others, after an 'intake interview', the practitioner makes an assessment of risk based on standardized training and criteria.

A person who is clearly a danger to themselves or others is subject to being 'committed to institutional care' against their will. This is usually a 72-hour period for observation and deescalation of crisis-mode thinking.

The mental health in-patient system via emergency service is largely restricted to those who express ideation (thoughts of) suicide or homicide. In other words, the person is to be taken seriously. One can self-report and be committed, where if they try to call the inpatient facility to check themselves in it's handled differently.

In many cases, suicidal clients are telling someone who is a professional their intent in order to get help.

It's to keep people from offing themselves or other people. It's NOT "thought police" or some conspiracy to take your rights away...

edit on 31-5-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Key word is that they are MANDATED REPORTERS meaning they report what they hear or see. That does not include interrogations. Asking this question to every single patient and requiring an answer is an interrogation. I have absolutely no problem with a person VOLUNTARILY declaring themselves suicidal and wanting help.

This MANDATE that now requires asking this question every single time to everyone is a conspiracy. The list is being compiled and now it includes everyone, not just the people to came forward for help. From now on its not optional to get help, being asked a question is not seeking help, its the government seeking to 'help' you, and im sure we all know the government rarely does any good in matters like this.

Suicidal is the new "terrorist".

As someone mentioned above, they are also asking if you feel safe in your home, which is one I have heard them ask recently. Now while you could argue that asking about suicidal thoughts could conflict with medication prescriptions, you simply cannot say the same about asking if you feel safe in your home. Feeling safe is a completely unscientific question and has no basis being asking medically.

Killing yourself over a sprained wrist?I'd have been astonished as the OP at that question too.

reply to post by Sway33

Suicidal is the new "terrorist".

no its not,

it make perfect sense for anyone giving out drugs to ask patients if they feel suicidal because if they don't then they are going to find that a few hours later the guy they just gave a packet of paracetamol to is coming back after a suicide attempt.

it happens

asking "do you ever have suicidal thoughts" is a perfectly reasonable question to ask someone who you are about to give a load of toxic and dangerous drugs to.

Originally posted by opethPA

Originally posted by Sway33
Your mental health will be used against you for your entire life. Every background check, every police contact made. The question is not a private one, it will never be between only you and your doctor. That is the problem.

In what world?

When I was younger like everyone else I went through bad times and thought mine were the worse so i tried something dumb where my mental and emotional state were questioned and documented.

When I got my DoD clearance that issue never came up.
When I started my current job and needed specific clearance for that plus various background checks, it never came up.

You can live in a world of fear and paranoia if you want but an intake clinician at a ACC or ER asking if you have suicidal thoughts makes total sense to me.

So working for the DoD does not mean its not documented. And just because you had a mental health issue say 20 years ago will not prevent you from getting a job, and it would not have been an issue in you getting the job. However if you were required to carry a gun for this job or any other such high risk issue, you would have been looked at more carefully or disregarded altogether. Most questions asked in job applications will ask if you have been diagnosed with a mental health issue within the last 6-12 months. Just because your mental health was questioned does not mean you were diagnosed or deemed a threat. This was not as complicated 20 years ago when this problem may have happened and today more is done with the information obtained.

Every answer is now instantly on a computer--and almost certainly instantly available to the Feds. Any answer that might disqualify a person for possession of weapons will be saved forever.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by Sway33

 

Suicidal is the new "terrorist".

no its not,

it make perfect sense for anyone giving out drugs to ask patients if they feel suicidal because if they don't then they are going to find that a few hours later the guy they just gave a packet of paracetamol to is coming back after a suicide attempt.

it happens

asking "do you ever have suicidal thoughts" is a perfectly reasonable question to ask someone who you are about to give a load of toxic and dangerous drugs to.

Funny, I received no drugs, yet they still got my answer. And if I would have answered yes, I would have gotten all the SSRI/Anti-depressants I could swallow, along with more doctors visits and possible incarceration in a mental health facility. No harm done, right? *sarcasm*

If it makes so much sense then hows come im 28 years old and that's the first time I've ever in my life been asked that question by any doctor or nurse? Ive had 10+ surgeries over my lifetime not to mention many other notable issues and have been to the doctor 10+ times this year alone, yet for some reason my safety is all of a sudden is such danger that they have to ask me that question? bullsh*t

reply to post by Sway33



it might just be a new policy the hospital have introduced

from personal experience i have had quite a few patients say "yes i have had suicidal thoughts" and they have not been put on any medication.

its a perfectly reasonable question.

i really dont see what the big deal is.

Here is a post from another site of a guy being asked similar but even more disturbing questions in the name of Health.

I am passing this along...there are comments from two other people I have also been asked if we keep guns in the house. The nurse just kinda slipped it in along with all the other regular questions. I told her I refused to answer because it was against the law to ask. Everyone, whether you have guns or not, should give a neutral answer so they have no idea who does and who doesn't.

My doctor asked me if I had guns in my house and also if any were loaded. I , of course, answered yes to both questions. Then he asked why I kept a loaded gun close to my bed. I answered that my son, who is a certified gun instructor and also works for Homeland Security, advised me that an unloaded, locked up gun is no protection against criminal attack. The Government now requires these questions be asked of people on Medicare, and probably everyone else.

Just passing this along for your information: I had to visit a doctor other than my regular doctor when my doctor was on vacation. One of the questions on the form I had to fill out was: Do you have any guns in your house?? My answer was None of your damn business!! So it is out there!

It is either an insurance issue or government intervention. Either way, it is out there and the second the government gets into your medical records (As they want to under Obamacare) it will become a major issue and will ultimately result in lock and load!!
Read more at www.snopes.com...

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


The big deal is that the answer is used by govt to decide for you what you can and cannot do by law. If that seems acceptable to you then i guess you wouldnt understand. Lets not forget one of the biggest govt issues right now, guns. And answering yes forfiets your right to a gun. And suddenly its mandatory that this question be asked to everyone on every visit? That does seem overly coincidental to anyone? And from the post i found from someone else they are not only asking that question. If a doctor asked me if i owned a gun i would probably give him a smack across his mouth and remind him what country he is living in.

So why is it a big deal? Becuase it would appear that this seemingly innocent question is a ploy at gaining even more information. Information that could effectively be used against the people. This is how govt operates.

Originally posted by Sway33

So working for the DoD does not mean its not documented. And just because you had a mental health issue say 20 years ago will not prevent you from getting a job, and it would not have been an issue in you getting the job. However if you were required to carry a gun for this job or any other such high risk issue, you would have been looked at more carefully or disregarded altogether. Most questions asked in job applications will ask if you have been diagnosed with a mental health issue within the last 6-12 months. Just because your mental health was questioned does not mean you were diagnosed or deemed a threat. This was not as complicated 20 years ago when this problem may have happened and today more is done with the information obtained.

Ok.

Nothing anyone says is going to make you think anything other than the fact that an intake clinician asked if you had suicidal thoughts and that is somehow wrong or an infringement on your rights.

reply to post by Sway33


So now you have gone form saying "why are they asking if i feel suicidal" to "they are asking me this to take away my guns".


If you have significant mental health problems you should not be aloud to own any guns.

but that's off-topic really.

the fact of the matter is that it is irresponsible for anyone to dispense drugs that could kill in overdoes to anyone with out establishing if that person is a danger to themselves.

I would never give anyone drugs if i thought for a minute they might use them to kill themselves with, if i wasn't sure if they were suicidal or not i would ask.

I'll tell them that I only get suicidal thoughts when doctors try to give me long term meds.

m.motherjones.com...

Well this article i found proves the Obama administration is already trying this. From my underatanding of the article they had to pass several bills just to prevent obama from requiring doctors to ask patiets about gun ownership. This is not conspiracy theory this is fact now. The bills pass prevent non-medical question such as do you own a gun. However they do not prevent asking about suicidal thoughts, behavior, or mental health issues.

And today i was told by my treating nurse that she was now required to ask all patients if they are having suicidal/depressive thoughts. And for the first time in 28 years i was asked that question during a pre-history exam from an ER nurse. My stated reason for needing to see a doctor: Wrist Pain

When i was asked the question it shocked me so much that during my appt when the nurse left the room i posted my first thread ever on ATS and i believe ive been a reader since about 07. So thats how shocked and disturbed i was by this question. It felt wrong, it didnt feel like they sound be aloud to ask me something like that for "wrist pain" my rights felt instantly violated. Thats why im pushing this. It affects us all and no one is saying anything.

Another side to the inanity of asking these questions, is that very frequently people will complain/admit of suicide ideation as a means to an end--often just 3 hots, a cot, and a TV w/remote--for a few days. This is more than just a small problem.

On the other side of the coin, people occasionally get injured in suicide attempts--they flinch at the last moment--and come into the ER with poorly explained injuries (usually motor-vehicle wreck or modest OD) ---but they usually smilingly deny suicide ideation.

reply to post by MuzzleBreak

On the other side of the coin, people occasionally get injured in suicide attempts--they flinch at the last moment--and come into the ER with poorly explained injuries (usually motor-vehicle wreck or modest OD) ---but they usually smilingly deny suicide ideation.

I spent about a year as a ER nurse, that is not my experience most in fact all (i really can not recall anyone denying they had done it when it was obvious) would admit to it. you ask a patient "why did you take a overdose/hang yourself/cut yourself/stab your self in the throat?" they will all admit to it being a suicide attempt or a form of self harm.

reply to post by MuzzleBreak


I agree with that but i find it more than on medical basis when im told they require every single patient to identify by law wheather or not they are suicidal. A yes answer has so many implications that requiring a disclosed answer should not and most likely is not legal.

And yes they answer has gun implications. And givin the timing i would say its the gun problem that is behind this and obamas plan for a national gun registry. Its mandatory profiling, which is worrisome becuase last time i check seeking help for a mental health issue was volentary unless you are a danger to yourself or others. So now basicly they are REQUIRING you to declare if you might be a danger. Thats very problematic and disturbing, and if obama find a way to begin asking other questions the problem is only going to exacerbate

reply to post by Sway33


Yeah why would we want people to be honest!!??!?!?!

Its better to have people with depression and suicidal thoughts to be hiding it from everyone.

/sarcasm

'merica.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by MuzzleBreak

 

On the other side of the coin, people occasionally get injured in suicide attempts--they flinch at the last moment--and come into the ER with poorly explained injuries (usually motor-vehicle wreck or modest OD) ---but they usually smilingly deny suicide ideation.

I spent about a year as a ER nurse, that is not my experience most in fact all (i really can not recall anyone denying they had done it when it was obvious) would admit to it. you ask a patient "why did you take a overdose/hang yourself/cut yourself/stab your self in the throat?" they will all admit to it being a suicide attempt or a form of self harm.

Certainly there are the folks you describe, too. These acts are frequently described as "gestures" and a plea for help. Plausible deniablity and "poorly explained" would be necessary qualifiers for the folks I was describing.