Originally posted by kam
These people come over here "ILLEGALLY" and do work we will not do for lower wages. (not the work ,the wages). They use illegal SS#`s , phony names , etc. They receive medical treatment, welfare, college grants, and much much more. All "ILLEGALLY". Alot of these people aren`t in the country for six months nor do they speak english and thier buying houses and driving mercedes, Yet they are here "ILLEGALLY". Do not get me wrong not all of them have it this good, but it is getting there. And shame on our government for letting them over populate us. It is without a doubt time to close the borders! The government itself is breaking the laws, the local police are breaking the laws, They need to start arresting these people and fingerprinting them, seize all of thier property for resale (to AMERICANS). The reason we should fingerprint them is if they apply for citizenship within ten years of being caught here "ILLEGALLY" they should be denied! thus discouraging them from jumping the borders in the first place. This government is a joke.

Okay, First they do work for lower wages which are paid because the illegal workers are availble. The responsibility for the wages paid lies on the head of the person paying them, which encourages illegal immigration. These people need to be fined heavily. Yes, we taxpayers pay for many services for illegals and their children, some of whom may also be illegal aliens. The I.N.S. fingerprints many of the 'undocumented workers' they capture and place them in a database.
What you are forgetting is that many illegals rely on their local communities for help which allows them to blend in to the local area. Let's say you were an immigrant that came in legally, but your cousin couldn't get in legally and desperately wants to be here ... would you help him? To the point of breaking the law? Most people do because they are family, that is where they 'forget' that the laws exist. Just as the homeowner 'forgets' that the laws exist or 'denies plausibility' that the guy they hired to clean their yard for $5.00 an hour, yet speaks only five words of english, may be an 'undocumented alien'. The problem lies on both sides of every border and the issues have to addressed one-by-one. Just look at the number of encampments there are in Malibu, California where the very, very rich have estates staffed by undocumented workers making less than nothing.

President Bush is prepared to grant amnesty to all illegal aliens who are presently in the country making them instant citizens! That is his, and prior presidents answer to the illegal immigration question. President Bush s also prepared to fully open the border between Mexico and the U.S. ... why? not out of brotherhood, but because the deal is that the U.S. gets Mexican Oil and "allows" the illegal immigration to continue. Bush is ignorant ... all that education gone to waste.

There are answers to the situation, they can be found, but who is willing to engage in the dialogue and honesty required to find the answers?



[edit on 23-11-2004 by Chuck Stevenson]

Ok 1 up for Mexico, Keep in mind that althought we do have to many Mexicans over here that they are just a tiny spec of the big picture. Sure why not have Mexico part of the UNITED STATES after all we are one continent. This would after some time take effect, and to be able to travel abroad equally and live as one amoungst each other, sure. After time this would make us stronger as a whole, as a nation, and economically. But then you have all the others like Brazil, and Asia, and Zimbawe, or Jamaca, or Spain, and Cuba, etc,etc So the way I see it is we are taking it from all sides without any type of defense accept the government, and you see what they are doing. JACK S#*! Oh no excuse me they are disarming the american people. Taking thier god given right to bear arms so when the inevitable happens (and it will ) It will be almost impossible to protect your family and thier lives. This is a huge problem we have here and unless we deal with it properly we will be overrun. When AMERICA is in battle who will come to fight for our country. I bet a guy with no fingers could count on one hand how many upone thumb to stand for all the AMERICANS no matter what race, color, nationality, or religion who fought to build and make this country what it is AMERICANS who want thier FREEDOM ! Lets face it AMERICANS can not go live, and or vacation in a lot of other countries without being in fear of some type of danger and maybe even life threatening danger. Its really a shame we can`t all co-exist peacefully.

Originally posted by kam
...Keep in mind that althought we do have to many Mexicans over here that they are just a tiny spec of the big picture...

There are 12 million illegals in the U.S. -- 10 million of which are from Mexico alone. To put this in perspective, Texas has 20 million citizens, and California has 35 million citizens. Also, 43 of the 50 States have populations of less than 10 million each.

This isn't just an inconvience anymore; it's become a political, economic, and even a cultural crisis.

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
This isn't just an inconvience anymore; it's become a political, economic, and even a cultural crisis.

The nutshell!

So how do we deal with it?
Adapt to Mexico or Mexico adapt to the U.S.?

You have to be willing to make fundamental changes when dealing with this issue on all sides. Commonality needs to be generated through the educational system by having an agreed upon common history. Economic unity can be instituted through legal and perceptual changes. Political reforms are needed in both countries which tie the politicians to the people instead of corporations.

How about a change in the economic system which creates a legally limited or constrained form of capitalism to remove the excessive capitalism we have today?

Okay let me change my approach here,
These people do not pay taxes !
They do not contribute to the American Welfare system!
They do not pay into Social Security!

They come over here "ILLEGALLY"
They find a place to rent , next thing you know there`s a small family of a thousand non speaking non contributing people living next to you !

They take the money they make and send it back to thier country for thier people! They only keep what they need to get to the next paycheck.

Here is an example: I am a Union carpenter , most of the jobs I go to have "ILLEGAL" immagrants on them they are not part of the Union!
And the ones who did get in to the Union did so illegally! using fake or bought SS#`s, They get into the Union as journeymen making top dollar and don`t know jack! In any case heres what happens they send thier money back home they only plan on working here for a few years until they save enough money to retire in thier own country! because in thier country they can still buy houses and property for under $50,000,00 ! So while these poeple are here they get free medical, Welfare, Grants, loans, and much more! they do not plan on staying here, because after saving the money they made here and returning home they live like Kings in thier country! (the amount of honest ones does not make up for the amount of illegal ones). Anyway my point being is none of this money gets recycled if you will back into the economy. Hence leaving the American poeple to foot the bill! And we do, because the government tells us to!

I truly think it is time to start voting people out, If they do not want to close the borders! Another thing is I am sick of seeing them fly thier flags over here! If they want to be an American citizen they should fly an American flag!
We are without a doubt the butt end of all thier jokes.
the Government in this country is not heeding the word of the people,
They have no regard for OUR rights! (VOTE THEM OUT)
This situation happens everywhere Union and Non-Union!
I would rather pay the bill to ship them out than pay to support them and thier children for the rest of thier lives!

Oh yeh, this is not just Mexico it`s all the other Countries.

[edit on 28-11-2004 by kam]