Mexico seeks U.S. immigration changes

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posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 06:59 PM
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I don't get the sympathy for illegal aliens, they are committing crimes, they should not be rewarded for it. Ok, say instead of committing that crime they are killing people, do you still have sympathy for them? They are still committing crimes, just different ones. I like alien hunting, and not the ones in the sky. They have places along the border that people go alien hunting to help keep illegal aliens out. Oh, and guess who has one of the most protected borders? Mexico's southern border. If you get in from the south you are either super lucky or super man. It is bull, they want our borders open, yet they have most of their military on their southern border.'

Maybe we should legalize alien hunting, help out the border patrol. Also, ever hear how the Mexican MILITARY crosses the borser and shoots at and kills our people? WTF? Why doesn't Bush attack them. Iraq never did this, yet we send in armies and planes and ships, Mexico kills our people and invades our country, and Bush appoints a Mexican to replace Ashcroft. Like asking the fox to guard the chicken house. Whats next, Osama Bin Laden becoming trhe leader of the NSA?




posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 07:00 PM
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I don't get the sympathy for illegal aliens, they are committing crimes, they should not be rewarded for it. Ok, say instead of committing that crime they are killing people, do you still have sympathy for them? They are still committing crimes, just different ones. I like alien hunting, and not the ones in the sky. They have places along the border that people go alien hunting to help keep illegal aliens out. Oh, and guess who has one of the most protected borders? Mexico's southern border. If you get in from the south you are either super lucky or super man. It is bull, they want our borders open, yet they have most of their military on their southern border.'

Maybe we should legalize alien hunting, help out the border patrol. Also, ever hear how the Mexican MILITARY crosses the borser and shoots at and kills our people? WTF? Why doesn't Bush attack them. Iraq never did this, yet we send in armies and planes and ships, Mexico kills our people and invades our country, and Bush appoints a Mexican to replace Ashcroft. Like asking the fox to guard the chicken house. Whats next, Osama Bin Laden becoming trhe leader of the NSA?



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
I don't get the sympathy for illegal aliens, they are committing crimes, they should not be rewarded for it... I like alien hunting, and not the ones in the sky. They have places along the border that people go alien hunting to help keep illegal aliens out... Maybe we should legalize alien hunting, help out the border patrol.


You Sir are advocating murder. Thus I have no sympathy for you, and you should be rewarded the full weight of the law if you cause the death of one human being by this rant. Once you have grown older and worked for a living and have been helped out by a Hispanic friend you will remember this with shame. This is the most un-Christian thing I have ever heard, and with a screename like James the Lesser you should know better. Shame.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 09:17 PM
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I disagree that Hispanics are the backbone of the US military, but never-the-less, our love for lime and booze on ice means nothing as far as immigration goes.

Fact remains that we own the land. In that I mean that we control and claim it, backed by our military, so thats pretty much a done deal. Even if we don't, we have more than made up for it with the residual wealth flowing down from their family members up here, among other things.

Personally, the big problem with the southern border has much less to do with race, and more to do with the condition of the people. The folks in Canada don't come here. Mainly because their economy, business, holdings are comparable to our own, much unlike most places South of here.

Dumping thousands of unregistered people, not paying taxes, taking benefits, working for slave wages, etc is not proper for either side.

Should people want to come here, fine, but there needs to be a reasonable formula with which to execute the plan.

We can't just let them trot across with nary a glance.

We need to plug all holes (as much as possible) and establish an Ellis Island with a pass/no pass system.

Meet the criteria and you can come in, you don't, go home.

The damn long time citizens have to play by the rules, but somehow it's unfair to make the new guys (who as of their arrival have yet to contribute one red cent) as well?

Silly; preposterous for that matter.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Personally, the big problem with the southern border has much less to do with race, and more to do with the condition of the people. The folks in Canada don't come here. Mainly because their economy, business, holdings are comparable to our own, much unlike most places South of here.

We can't just let them trot across with nary a glance.

We need to plug all holes (as much as possible) and establish an Ellis Island with a pass/no pass system.


The Canadians come here, they just blend into the crowd like Peter Jennings and my ex-neighbor lady who used to try to get me to marry her so she wouldn't have to return to Canada. The big problem with the present system is, once southern workers get here, with all they go through to get here, the thought of returning home to see Mom and then going through all the Wizard of Oz 'no' routines again to get back to work and wife and so on is a HUGE incentive to get across and STAY across. They need to be free TO GO, as well as to come. There is an angle to this I haven't talked about, so here goes. You are talking about people whose ancestors migrated north and south with the seasons to work AND RETURN HOME for millenia. This is nothing new, and it has to do with 'place' not 'wealth'. America is where the Hummingbird and the Duck and the Goose go when it is warm. We see them, and we follow them. Mexico is where the Hummingbird and the Duck and the Goose go when it is cold. We see them and follow them. It has been this way, forever. Now along comes Uncle Sam and builds a wall. The Hummingbird and the Duck and the Goose ignore it, and come and go as they always have. The Indian sees the wall, and feels the urge to go North. So he goes. He wishes to return, and again faces the Wall. This Wall is an artificial barrier to freedom of movement, to freedom of thought, to freedom of commerce and it exists only in the minds of those prejudiced by language, race, or fear of those who might be of 'lesser economic status'. A person who is worthy to cook for the Mistress is worthy of the freedom to come and go without fear. America is receiving the benefit of Mexican labor without extending equal rights to those same workers.

Tear down the Wall, America.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Chakotay]



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 10:21 PM
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We are talking about fundamentally different things. If you think that kind of free wheeling nomad life will cure the world of its greed or selfishness, great, but it's not real.

You can liken Hispanics to geese all you want, but in reality people have brains and can think. I'm rather tickled that you think it's racially motivated, then call them birds.

Never-the-less, we need to have some semblance of order to govern almost 300 million people with a huge gaping social spending problem and some seriously idiotic state laws that allow people to jump in without real right to it.

Like I said, there are rules, but they should be appropriate. I do not begrudge immigrants; my family is half young and half old in this country.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Chakotay
I also want to point out to Aelita that my People's origin stories describe an American Genesis of Humankind. Dr. Leakey was digging in North America as he held this as a hypothesis also before his death. Our story has the Peoples of other lands (you) returning to this land to visit their Ancestors- (us). The fact remains: we were here when you and your people arrived here.


Oh boy. The Romans were there when the Visigoths came and effectively conquered Rome. The Russians were there when the Tartars came and ruled for 300 years. As you know, the area of England called Dunlop was conquered by the Vikings (Dunlop is derived from Dane-lag, which means Danish Law).

The fact remains that at some point somebody used to occupy a certain tract of land, and that it doesn't mean jack. You lost Mexico to the US, get over it dude instead of whining and threatening to take this matter to the UN. That's just damn ridiculous.



We are the Native People, with Indiginous Title. This is fact. If you do not feel a twinge of conscience in regards to this, then you have the mind of a pirate and you can expect a pirate's reception.


I pay taxes here and I'm not a pirate. Mexicans illegally coming here to have babies at an American hospital, they are using my tax money and they indeed are pirates.

Go back to Mexico and build a better economy there, if your so righteous about your Indigenous Title. That would definitely serve a bigger justice.

And stop whining already.

And we need to build a wall.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
We are talking about fundamentally different things. If you think that kind of free wheeling nomad life will cure the world of its greed or selfishness, great, but it's not real.


Jethro, we are talking about the same thing but we have different viewpoints. Our way of life, the way of life of the wild things, these are real. They are laws of nature, not constructs of the human mind. And more, it is a recognized right of International Law that Peoples with an established nomadic way of life have an inherent right to freedom of movement. This applies to Gypsies in Europe, Bedouin in the Middle East, and to Americans with a tribal history of nomadic movement.

The Wall Will Fall.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 10:48 PM
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Understood, but the balance to man's animal is reason. Cognitive thought is cold and efficient, unlike the almost completely emotional animal side.

The balance is the key. There is a point in which we must draw the line and say that there is reason for restraint.

If this was a simple ebb and flow, it would be one thing, but it is a flow much like heat transfer or electricity. Nature is much like science, as science is only the description of nature. When two things are of different temperatures, they tend to normalize to the same temp. Likewise with electricity finding the easiest path (i.e. least resistance).

Here is better, case closed. And people can come and go as they please as long as they are in the system.

Having an integral system if ID is not bad when used correctly (although nature also says that we will corrupt all we build).

We do need to cast our shucks so to speak, but security can not breakdown in the meantime.


[edit on 11-11-2004 by KrazyJethro]



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by Chakotay
laws of nature, not constructs of the human mind.


Everything is a construct of human mind. Wake up.

There is absolutely nothing in this world except for the constructs of human mind.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Here is better, case closed. And people can come and go as they please as long as they are in the system.[edit on 11-11-2004 by KrazyJethro]


I challenge you, Jethro, to take a vacation in Cancun (no, I am not in the travel business) and then a visit to the Bronx. 'Here' is not better. The highest-class areas of Mexico are equal to anything the world has to offer, and in many cases are without equal. As in the United States, other areas are not so fortunate. I have personally observed American hillbilly families in Virginia washing clothes barefooted in the creek, using outhouses, living off welfare, and so on. I agree that people can come and go as long as they are in the system, and that is great. The problem is that the SYSTEM IS FLAWED and needs to be reformed so it does not scare people so bad they go around to the back gate.

The Wall is a Waste of Money.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Chakotay]



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 11:06 PM
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I don't need to be challanged. If it was not a higher standard of living here, people would not be coming across the border like they do, and then send money back.

Conversely, I don't see the poor here running off to mexico. Hell, we have begging bums here who make more than many in Mexico.

I'm not saying it's bad, because it's not. You're right, the system is flawed, but it seems that our system is slightly less flawed. Coupled with a better economy, and that is good motivation to the short term thinkers.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by Chakotay
The problem is that the SYSTEM IS FLAWED


I agree! The southern border is open. It needs to be closed!



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Conversely, I don't see the poor here running off to mexico. Hell, we have begging bums here who make more than many in Mexico.


Those begging bums have no healthcare system. Every Mexican Citizen and any visitor who wants it is covered by IMSS, the free Mexican National Health Care System. I do see the American poor running to Mexico every day. The cross the border to buy food, medicines, clothes and any number of things they cannot afford in El Paso. The bridges are full, both ways, and smart Yankees know the value of a dollar south of the Border. The Americans take full advantage of IMSS.


Tear Down the Wall

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Chakotay]



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 01:01 AM
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I don't think I want mexican health care

hmmm looking at the infant mortality rate again from the world fact book will show that we have about 6 they have nearly 22. wow, almost 4 times, that is b/c no sterilization, and poor techniques. I don't want mexican treatment.

You challenged to go to mexico then continued to compare mexico's best to one of america's worst,, the same can be done with anywhere, if you compare yosimitie, Las Vegas, New York, DC, Certain Parts of San Fran., Orlando, Disneyland to places like Mexico you could draw the same conclusion, so that was a really worthless argument

as for nomadic tribes, look who it applys too...



Tribal peoples in independent countries whose social, cultural and economic conditions distinguish them from other sections of the national community, and whose status is regulated wholly or partially by their own customs or traditions or by special laws or regulations


NOT people that want to enter a country and STAY for work. TO STAY is to no longer be NOMADIC. The people that enter the US illeagaly to work are not nomadic, but are again just people looking for work.

NOMAD: a member of a people who have no fixed residence but move from place to place usually seasonally and within a well-defined territory

Mexican immigrant workers are not this, they would not migrate in a modern society and they do have a fixed residence, as in the one they spent most of their life in, as in Mexico.

Mexican illeagal immigrants have no protected right to enter our country for a time duration long enough to work.



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 01:32 AM
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I don't advocate murder, I advocate protecting America. Why do you say nothing about the MEXICAN MILITARY coming in and attacking and KILLING! our people? If they can kill us why can't we defend our country from invaders? If they were mauslim would you have a problem? They come here invading our country and hurting America. Kill em all damn it. Or even better, if they want to get out of Mexico round up all the illegals captured and ship them to Africa. Wouldn't that be fun?ump a couple million people on Africa and watch it become even more of a hell hole.



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 04:58 AM
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wow,that is pretty harsh. I am an advocate for protecting our nation and keeping illeagals out, but that is truely harsh.

What are you reffrencing when you speak of people comming in and killing americans, not that I doubt you, just curioucity.



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 06:42 AM
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Perfect recipe for enclosing yourself within an insurgency. What do you think we, who are enclosed with you and have Mexican relatives, will do? Accept your self-imposed prison? Leave? Die? Your recipe is one for disaster. Racism is dead, and the sooner you accept that, the happier, healthier and wealthier you will be.


Insurgency? Prison? Racism?

Are you insane?

I'm talking about SECURE entry and exit points, like MOST nations have, unlike ours. My suggestions would not prevent you from visiting Mexican, Canadian, whatever relatives. It would not imprison US citizens, etc. Just as you have to show some ID now to get across, same difference with my scenario. The ONLY thing it would do, is keep out those who are trying to get here ILLEGALLY. This has NOTHING to do with Racism. Illegal immigration is theft, pure and simple, regardless or race, color or creed. Securing the border is no different than a retail outlet having controlled entrances/exits.



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 07:11 AM
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i think this is a bad idea. even up here we would not let people flood our country.ya i think what the other person said dont you think you might get invaded from mexico .watch that movie it has a ring to it red dawn......

[edit on 12-11-2004 by flukemol]



posted on Nov, 12 2004 @ 10:30 AM
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See, they don't have healthcare because we have a much different system. Our government entitlements are wrong and need to be removed. If you want Universal Healthcare, that's good. It's much more prudent to have it in Mexico than here.

There are, after all, many in poverty in Mexico. But then again, that is putting a larger strain on the people who actually work and make money (so long as it's legal).

But the tit for tat of America vs. Mexico is a lame duck. The fact remains that we live in a world of walls, and those walls are meant for protection. Our job is to protect the American people, NOT anyone else.

Should the Mexican government choose to surrender to us, which would slam us economically because it'd be like dropping an anchor while steaming along, then we can talk about what they need.

Until then, if you are so concerned about the Mexicans, you should look into how to improve THEIR government.

That's a novel idea.





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