Mexico seeks U.S. immigration changes

a)

UN sanctions. Economic depression. The EU would gain economic advantage over an embargoed US. Spain has an interest in its old Empire.

LOL who owns/runs most of the UN?!?!?! we have already shown we don't give a hoot about what the UN says, so IF these EU states say 'embargo the US, what CORE PROFET NATION will not sell to the US, and MORE SO, knowing the consequences to the UN, why would they even take that case? DUH!

I believe that I have already addressed who owns claim to land.

If you take it far enough back, anyone could claim this land, indian, mexican, animals, (going really far back) we could say in the cradle of time the first person that stepped on alaska, then went home b/c it was too cold, could claim the americas, my point is that you do not own this land, and neither does anyone else, any more than any other person, so to kick someone off in a manner that involves you claiming you were there first is flaud and dishonorly

hmm, The UN would do nothing, nor would mexico, or spain, see the scenario

Mexico presents it is there's, but spain was there 1st
Spain presents it is there's, but no, Aztecs were there 1st
Aztecs say it was there's, but no again, the mian were there 1st

A society would have to prove they were the 1st ones there, and that is impossible. the UN would do nothing, not to mention, every nation was forged like that in the day LEARN HISTORICAL CONTEXT!!!!

b)
Yep, the US has biast border policies, hmmm yep, we allow ceratin numbers of each country to enter, and whether or not that is proportionate to the number of people that want to come in is irrelevent, the numbers are set based off population in the US, balancing, and expected influxes, just like the UC's, you should know.

California has Affirmitave action, a process that gives extra points twords admitance to people based off of their race, family income etc. making standard white people less likely to enter a UC college. no one complains about that, untill they realized it was racisism against other countries. To allow more mexican numbers in would be imposing racisim against the other nations.

c) [listed above] + who will enforce any UN ruling? the US provided UN troops? please

d) Read what you said, the agriculture companies that pay taxs make up alot of the US GDP, *nods* that is true, and has nothing to do with Mexican's paying taxes, it does have to do with mexican workers working for these companies, you know the same type that come LEAGALY accross the border every day?

e)well, 1. IF racisim was occurring good job, but 2. what I have seen from you so far, anything could be racisim, 3. aparently your partner felt threatened enough to take whatever actrion he did and 4. the Judge obviously agreed and found no reason to convict him

lol I have been arrested for Sexual Battery, and the girl said I had...it was on a stage, in front of 30 people, all of which were interviewed, and all of which said they had no clue what that girl was talking about, so you see, looks can be decieving, in other words I am compairing you to the girl. By the way, the charge was thrown out by the DA and my record was expunged, so no, I am not a criminal.

[edit on 9/11/2004 by dusty1031]

[edit on 9/11/2004 by dusty1031]

Originally posted by Aelita
Chakotay's arguments are interesting but largely irrelevant.

Chakotay, Let ME clarify your errors:

Originally spat out by Chakotay
A. The United States took sovereign Mexican lands by force of arms and fraudulant treaty-making. That makes US title and authority null and void under International Law (remember Kuwait?).

International Law? Tell me what "international law" Court existed in the late 1800's? Please state your argument more succinctly for "fraudulent".

Originally spat out by Chakotay
B. The US has biased border policies. Mexicans should enjoy the same immigration policies directed towards largely Anglo Canadians- at least.

Funny ... I have never met an "illegal alien" from Canada, the Canadians I have met prefer to live in Canada.

Originally hocked like a nasty lugey by Chakotay
C. The Mexican Government is NOT asking for its lands back.

That is because the Mexican Government understands that it's current borders are the full and legal extent of it's recognised territorial claims ... a perception you appear to have a problem with.

Originally prayed about by Chakotay... and for the largely Catholic Mexican people's support for the war on islamist terror and illegal drugs. The Mexican Government is asking for humane, fair, equal treatment for its citizens in matters of immigration.

Maybe the United States Government should treat them in the same manner that the Mexican Federal Justice system would treat them?
The U.S. Immigration system is geared to provide equality to ALL PEOPLES of the world, not one squeeky little noisemaker that demands special treatment while continuously violating the U.S. Borders and territory.

Originally hallucinated by Chakotay
The Mexican Government COULD press its case for reparations or restoration of lands in the United Nations courts, but it is showing admirable restraint in relations with Washington.

See the first point above.

Originally "flower powered" by ChakotayMexicans in America should be extended the same welcome Americans in Mexico are. That is called equal protection before the law and justice for all. We should treat our blood relatives like the family members they are.

Yes Chakotay, equal treatment ... well you don't see Mexicans being kidnapped and held for ransom by Federal Authorities in the U.S. ...
As happens in Mexico ....
You do not see Mexicans being robbed , raped and beaten and then being ignored by the authorities in the United States ...
as happens in Mexico ...
You do not see Mexicans being thrown in Jail and told that if they want to eat their familes have to provide the food ...
as happens in Mexico.

Originally bragged about by Chakotay
D. The taxes generated for the US, States, counties and cities by Mexican labor are ... generating trillions of dollars of GDP for American business and consumers that is taxed all the way.

I think your figures are flat out wrong.
Well "son", with all that education you certainly come up with some strange ideas about how things work.

.

Originally posted by Chuck Stevenson
Originally hallucinated by Chakotay
Originally "flower powered" by Chakotay
Originally bragged about by Chakotay

Quite rude, Chuck. I stand by my figures. And I have not yet pointed out that the backbone of the US Military right now is Hispanic, including many Mexican nationals serving as officers and line. We are one people. Have a margarita on me.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Chakotay]

lol, he already said "LEGAL"

Jeez, keep on topic, first you go off on some russian front, and you keep talking about how much LEGAL resigents give us (taxes, military, etc) THIS TOPIC IS NONE OF THESE, it is about immigration of illeagal mexican immigrants and US border policies

I donno where you are getting your statistics, but i doubt them, Oh, by the way, they may be of hispanic origin, but does that mean they are mexican (or any latan america immigrants? 2nd gen? 3rd even?)

Quite honestly I feel the same way Chuck Stevenson does, and though it was kinda rude, you provide little factual backing and you have a problem with staying on topic. you seem to not even read people's posts, more or less ignoring the parts you can't present a rebuttle. I mean look at your last post

Quite rude, Chuck. I stand by my figures. And I have not yet pointed out that the backbone of the US Military right now is Hispanic, including many Mexican nationals serving as officers and line. We are one people. Have a margarita on me.

most of this has nothing to do with this topic. Several people now have posted long against you, and you just say 'I stand by...' where did you get these numbers you stand by? Oh and what does a margareta have to do with this topic, legal immigrants can make margaretas too. About the only thing that is in this post that says anything appropriate is about the stats in the military, and you didn't even provide a source for that.

Hey Dusty, I ignore what is not worth replying to. Here's a good reference for you: our new Attorney General. George Bush understands the worth of Hispanic Americans. I am most familiar with my Mexican friends and relatives, and you are aware that the Central American Republics are Mexican also- until the United Fruit Company and the US Army decided to carve off more of the Mexican lands? Back to the point, many Hispanic voters tend to be more conservative and vote Republican. I do not deal in lowbrow insults and so I tend to feel sorry for the other posters who do- I am not referring to you, you and I have had a good spirited discussion.

All I am saying is, let's Unite the Americas. When the European Union integrated, crime and smuggling dropped as it became easier for the Authorities to co-operate. Wouldn't it be nice to drive down the Pan-American Highway to visit the geoglyphs at Tiahuanaco without having to bother with a bunch of paperwork that deters commerce but not terrorists?

Kudos for Bush.

Since I haven't heard from Chakotay on this subject, let me ask again:

How different is the treatment of Mexican immigrants
compared to the treatment of the following immigrants:

a) Pushtu
b) Somali
c) Ukranian
d) Norwegian
e) Bengali
f) Russian

Please provide as much detail as you can.

Originally posted by Aelita
Since I haven't heard from Chakotay on this subject, let me ask again:

How different is the treatment of Mexican immigrants
compared to the treatment of the following immigrants:

a) Pushtu
b) Somali
c) Ukranian
d) Norwegian
e) Bengali
f) Russian

Please provide as much detail as you can.

Aelita, you seem like a reasonable person. I think you know that I disparage the maltreatment of any human being by another. Now I am sure you know that the Peoples of the Arctic Circle are all Relatives: there are tipis among the Saami, hand drums among the Siberians and so on. There are precolumbian natives of African heritage in the Americas and the Islamists have been pontificating about Allahbama while Hindus and Chinese claim ancient voyages to America and linguists ponder Sumerian word-roots in Native languages.

Mexicans deserve equal treatment with Canadians. At least. When I cross the Canadian border, it is far friendlier and easier than when I cross the Southern Border into the States. This is a fact. There are no armed search immigration checkpoints in interior Washington State like there are in Texas. When you ride the Greyhound in Oregon you are not detained and searched several times by armed Immigration officers, as you are in Texas. Mexicans deserve the same treatment that Mexico gives to Americans; when I go to Mexico I am welcomed and treated like an equal, not detained and harrassed.

Beyond that, Native Americans including Mexicans are the Aboriginal Inhabitants of the United States. They have, in the words of Nelson Mandela of South Africa, a right to the land and its governance. You know this is true. It was true for the Africans in South Africa and it is true right here in the States for the Native peoples. Canada has recognized this right; they gave back a huge chunk of the Northwest Territories to Native government, a fact hardly spoken of in the American press. It is easier for my Mexican relatives to visit our relatives in Canada than to visit the States.

People from other continents like to come here. That is fine. But we live here. We always have. We are not extinct. We see our Aunt in the window of her house in Ciudad Juarez across the Rio Grande from our house in El Paso. I want to fish in the river, to swim across and see her and return. If I do that I will be shot. This is division of families, it is akin to the Berlin Wall. The Germans had the good sense to tear down the wall, and we should tear down ours. All those years of hypocrisy griping at the Russians about the Wall, and now we have our very own.

Russia relinquished those parts of its Empire that it held illegitimately. My Relatives in Semipalatinsk now enjoy freedom that my Relatives in Nevada do not. The last major colonial power is the United States- and it is a colonialism based on racism and economic exploitation. It is about time that the Land of "All Men Are Created Equal" begins to live up to its own rhetoric.

To focus on topic: Mr. Bush, Tear Down That Wall.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Chakotay]

the constitution was meant to protect the legal residents of the USA, and as such 'all people created equal' apply to them. Everyone else gets their unalienable rights too, and protection from the government.

You spoke of 'equality for visitors' that is we should treat mexicans the way they treat us. Well, we have some plusses, and they have some plusses, but the point concludes in every person gets the unalienable rights that each country provides. In mexico, it is health care (which I don't agree everyone gets, but *shrug* that is a different topic) and in america hmmm we definitly provide better police and fire/hospitals.

as I have said before and you continualy ignore, learn historical context, mexico couldn't claim anything from america.

i have also said no one ethnic group can claim the americas b/c no one ethnic group can claim they were there 1st.

hmmm and lastly...I have never been siezed crossing the border, nor my parents, forein relitives, or friends, so if you are, you really must be suspicious considdering I was born 10 miles from the border, and have lived near it all my life, crossing it many times.

Hmmm there are several checkpoints in CA that are gaurded and all, as a matter fact, some of them aren't permenant but appear in different places different days, I very rarely see people pulled over...so again, whoever you are talking about must look very suspicious.

The armed checkpoints are only there to enforce what the laws of this nation are, and because they are laws, there is no reason why they shouldn't exist, as it has been said, a soverein nation has a right to protect itself.

As I have said, you want to unite the nations? well, mabey when things develop further, when the US will not be forced into paying massive dividens to the immigrants, When the US doesn't have to worry so much about drugs and guns crossing the border (though that wall is falling, assault weapons are now purchasable), mabey when the world is safer, we can all unite and be friends, but more than likely during the span of this admin, the next admin, or even the ones after that, it will never come close enough to have open borders.

The question that prickles this whole situation right now is what does the US gain from opening its borders that it doesn't get from limited access to its border?

BY THE WAY, I am enjoying this debate too

[edit on 10/11/2004 by dusty1031]

Originally posted by Chakotay
when I go to Mexico I am welcomed and treated like an equal, not detained and harrassed.

Yes, Mexico is a wonderful country!

U.S. Department of State
Mexico
... there is often no effective law enforcement or police protection.

... Some segments of the local population resent the presence of foreigners and openly express their hostility.

... Standards of security ... has contributed to deaths of U.S. citizens ...

... Crime in Mexico continues at high levels, and it is often violent ...

... Armed street crime is a serious problem in all of the major cities ...

... Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues at alarming rates....

... Criminal assaults occur on highways throughout Mexico ...

Yes my brother, let us travel to the land of the eternal sun and share in the joyous brotherhood of all the Mexican peoples! Have you checked your "tobacco" lately? Unfortunately Hefay, your "facts" seem to have no merit, and your inability/unwillingness to use outside information to support your arguments is ... well ... slightly damning.

Maybe they want the "Open Border" so they can ship all the criminals to the U.S.A. like the Mariel Boatlift from Cuba?

When it comes to legal immigration, I have to say that I do not see a problem with it. Our country was made up from immigrants. I do believe they should be able to speak the language. They should not recieve any more benfits than any other legal citizen.

After being unemployed for quite a while, it is very disturbing to see someone with no education and barely able to say their own name in English recieve employment when you are more than qualified for that position. This happens not only because the company will not have to pay them as much, but also because our government gives subsidies to companies that hire immigrants.

Exactly what does Vincence Fox want from us, especially when he has cracked down on illegal immigrants coming from El Salvador, Guatamala and other countries to the south of Mexico. If asking for equal consideration for employment as well as demanding that the borders be closed (with military) if nessecary makes me a racist, then so be it.

hey hey hey, FIRST OFF alot of places have alot of problems, and yes mexico does have some bad ones, but it is still a nice place, I have been there many times, and always lived near the border and never had anything outside of a very plesent time full of sugar baked almonds, lobster and margarita.

mmhmm I agree, immigration laws need to be changed, the incentives for jobs need to be reworked (like I have said earlier such as affirmative action) the cercumstances that we as citizens endure based off the governments strive for equality has offended everyone with what is hidden as racisim. (such as your unemployment or my affirmative action)

hmmm, yes, we need to control it better, it need to be changed. people earlier said ellis island, mabey, mabey not, I believe it lie in the middle between full open and closed, mabey some kind of seasonal rotation card set.

BTW Chuck, thanks for citing your sources, and I have appreciated your input on this topic also.

[edit on 11/11/2004 by dusty1031]

I don't understand why mexico doesn't just become the 51st state.In order to stay competitve with the EU's population base of 455 million in economic terms and china's 1 billion Ameica needs to expand. Why not just allow mexico to become the 51st state. I can't see the mexican people having a problem with it (allthough the mexican politicians might) And in truth I don't think most americans would have a problem either. Once Mexco became a state it wold have the same labor laws, minimun wage etc. Within a few years it economy would be in line with the rest of Americas and as a result our GDP would grow massivly. In addition the FBI would have juridiction to wipe ot the mexican drug cartels would would help in the war on drugs (I mean coc aine etc I dont consider marjuana a drug) The US would nearly double its landmass and we wouldn't have to worry about guys crossing the border getting paid .10 cents an hour. Its win win for both sides.

yeah it's a nice idea, and has some great plusses, but why does the US need to have a larger population then it does now? not to mention, if you read the rest of this topic, does it seem favorable twords even a more liberal but still not full open border? How can you say 'not many people would care'?!?!?!?!

it does present some interesting ideas, but the amount of money that would have to be funnled into services like welfare, unemployment, and all those FED investigations you speak of you be a travisty, and the amount that would go out would vastly outweigh the income they would provide

America Percapita GDP-$37,800
Mexico Percapita GDP-$9000
w/ an unemployment as high as 28.3%

their TOTAL GDP isn't even 1/10 of ours!!!!

40% of there population is below their poverty line, that means
probibly near 70% by US standards

Their Industry level is shrinking

Despite having nearly equal amounts of land as the US, it's infrastructure is horrible, having about 1/40!!!! the number of paved roads as us, and that is Government money that will have to be spent

HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS WOULD HELP US!!!!

CIA world fact book 2004

[edit on 11/11/2004 by dusty1031]

Well dusty I am not implying that it would not require a massive investment as it most certainly would. However I feel in the long run it would be worth it.
We need a bigger population to be able to compete economically with, Primarily, the EU.
While it will not IMHO begin to overtake the US in economic dominance short term due to the mssive drain the new eastern europe member states are causing, once thier economies are up to speed the EU will begin to rapidly supplant the US as the worlds most dominat economy. This coupled with the increasing hostility to the American agenda from most EU governments does not bode well for us.The dangers of the Euro becomng the worlds most dominant currency to the US can not be overstated. Longer term China is also a massive threat to US dominance. While at the moment thier economy is nowhere near as productve as our own thier abliity to build out entire manufacturing industries at exceptonally low costs and at alarming speed is IMHO another threat tht needs to be taken seriously.
A merger with mexico would accomplish many objectives.
1) It would open up vast tracks of land that could quickly be converted into modern farms allowing the US to become more self suffecient in terms of food production. In addition the surplusses of grains and soy could be funneled into ethanol, and biodiesel helping us to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil.
2) Mexico and south america as a whle have moderately large oil and gas fields which could be more effeciently exploited.
3) The lack of infrastructure would bring in huge revenues for heavy industry which could be supported and funded by private industy for profit, reducing the governmental investments needed. Roads, power stations, Phone and internet lines cable and wireless providers etc.
4)As all mexican citizens would become US citzens it wold end all cases of mexican illegals being paid under the table which would increase the tax revenues offsetting the additional costs of social servies. While at the same time opening up far more lowend workers.
5) t would open up mexican mineral deposits to American exploitation.
6) The vast amounts of mexicans lving at or below the poverty line would naturally gravitate torwards the armed forces increasing the size of the US's military allowing us to handle more crisies at once.
These are off the top of my head just some of the benefits I forsee.

Originally posted by Chakotay
Aelita, you seem like a reasonable person.

Chakotay, I feel you'll have to downgrade me on the reason scale after you read this

Now I am sure you know that the Peoples of the Arctic Circle are all Relatives: there are tipis among the Saami, hand drums among the Siberians and so on. There are precolumbian natives of African heritage in the Americas and the Islamists have been pontificating about Allahbama while Hindus and Chinese claim ancient voyages to America and linguists ponder Sumerian word-roots in Native languages.

You are gonna love this: they found inscriptions in some caves, populated a long time ago by the Natives... in a variation of really old Arameic, which is a precursor to Hebrew, as you undoubtedly know. Yes, Jews have traveled to Mexico all the way from the Middle East and so did people from what is now Mongolia.

According to your logic, the Northern States of Mexico are subject to territorial claims by Israel.

When I cross the Canadian border, it is far friendlier and easier than when I cross the Southern Border into the States. This is a fact. There are no armed search immigration checkpoints in interior Washington State like there are in Texas. When you ride the Greyhound in Oregon you are not detained and searched several times by armed Immigration officers, as you are in Texas.

And you know why? Because (a) Mexico is pretty darn far from Canada (b) They can rely on the Americans doing all the dirty work of searching and detaining suspects.

Beyond that, Native Americans including Mexicans are the Aboriginal Inhabitants of the United States. They have, in the words of Nelson Mandela of South Africa, a right to the land and its governance. You know this is true.

No, I know this is a silly notion. You are preoccupied with rights to land. The Mexicans came over here from Asia in the firstplace. You don't seem too eager to claim China and Mongolia as your ansestral estates.

Canada has recognized this right; they gave back a huge chunk of the Northwest Territories to Native government, a fact hardly spoken of in the American press.

I traveled through the Navajo Nation and it's a huge country the size of Switzerland. They have tribal governance and Native police force. And, you can't buy as much as a can of beer in this huge stretch of land, no alcohol at all. Sounds like self governance to me. And it's located inside the other State, Arizona.

People from other continents like to come here. That is fine. But we live here. We always have.

That's a fiction. You are a mix of Asiatic people who crossed the landbridge over the Bering straits a long while ago. There were huge tracts of land not populated in Alaska when the RUssians came and claimed it. Should then Alaska be considered still Russian? Hell no.

Russia relinquished those parts of its Empire that it held illegitimately. My Relatives in Semipalatinsk now enjoy freedom that my Relatives in Nevada do not.

Semipalatinks is in Kazakhstan. If you think the Kazakh democracy is in any way superior to American, you need to see a shrink.


And, you still didn't directly answer my question. Indirectly, you tried hard to prove that Mexicanos deserve a preferential treatment compared to the people coming from Old Countries. This is bull. Jews can claim Mexico, as can Mongolians, and according to your logic the Mongolians and Thai need to be given almost the same rights as Mexicanos and by extension, as the US citizens.

In your righteous quest of equality, you became a segregationist yourself, Chakotay, because you say that on this land, Mexicanos should be a first class citizens and Thai should be second class, and Russians maybe third class, because of the geograpgic factors. Load of bull.

Equality is equality, and Russians have same rights as Bengali and as Mexicans. And illegal immigration is illegal.

There should be work visa programs, taxes, and a wall to stem illegal immigration. Then, legal immigration can be made more massive.

cheers,

Aelita.




[edit on 11-11-2004 by Aelita]

About the only changes I'd support are:

1. The erection of a wall between the US and Mexico, with controlled access gates.

2. A land-mined "no man's land" before the wall, closed off with a fence to prevent accidental straying into it.

3. Sensors such as those used at Area 51, but to track those trying to sneak across.

4. Machine gun towers along the wall, with spotlights, night vision, etc.

5. The requirement that at least one parent be an American citizen, before automatically extending the right to the child. This "instant American" loophole has been exploited for FAR too long. If two non-Americans have a child here, they should have to get on the road to citizenship before the child is declared a citizen.

That'd pretty much do it.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Gazrok
About the only changes I'd support are:

1. The erection of a wall between the US and Mexico, with controlled access gates.

2. A land-mined "no man's land" before the wall, closed off with a fence to prevent accidental straying into it.

3. Sensors such as those used at Area 51, but to track those trying to sneak across.

4. Machine gun towers along the wall, with spotlights, night vision, etc.

5. The requirement that at least one parent be an American citizen, before automatically extending the right to the child. This "instant American" loophole has been exploited for FAR too long. If two non-Americans have a child here, they should have to get on the road to citizenship before the child is declared a citizen.

That'd pretty much do it.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Gazrok]

Perfect recipe for enclosing yourself within an insurgency. What do you think we, who are enclosed with you and have Mexican relatives, will do? Accept your self-imposed prison? Leave? Die? Your recipe is one for disaster. Racism is dead, and the sooner you accept that, the happier, healthier and wealthier you will be. As for Aelita's last comment,

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by Chakotay
Aelita, you seem like a reasonable person.

Chakotay, I feel you'll have to downgrade me on the reason scale after you read this

I agree.

I also want to point out to Aelita that my People's origin stories describe an American Genesis of Humankind. Dr. Leakey was digging in North America as he held this as a hypothesis also before his death. Our story has the Peoples of other lands (you) returning to this land to visit their Ancestors- (us). The fact remains: we were here when you and your people arrived here. We are the Native People, with Indiginous Title. This is fact. If you do not feel a twinge of conscience in regards to this, then you have the mind of a pirate and you can expect a pirate's reception.

Back to topic: Mr. Bush, equal treatment for Mexican Immigrants. At least.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Chakotay]

ARG STOP READDRESSING THE SAME THINGS!!

THIS LAND BELONGS TO WHOEVER WAS HERE 1st, and since no one can prove who was here 1st, it belongs to no one except the nations that have cut it apart!

mwm1331
you tried to counter, but think of this, WHAT IS IT THE US PEOPLE WANT!?!?! I do not believe that is is some 'promice' that some day things will get better, you keep saying that eventualy it would help us, well that is not what most US people want, HUMAN NATURE WANTS INSTANT GRADIFICATION! so to follow that plan would be against the will of the people, and hence a poor idea.
1) the US is already pretty much self sufficient in Agric.
2)we have gas in Alaska too
3)Infrastructure for Private industry at the cost of the US Gov, a government which can't afford to double it's number of roads right now, even our roads now aren't good enough
4)lol, that would cause an influx of low end workers, and having to pay them more would cause farmers to not want to hire as many, causing a HUGE influx in unemployment in both the economies. LEARN SUPLY DEMAND CURVES, ECONOMICS.
5)Minerals, ONE PLUS
6)Larger military, more gov spending on the military, that is what everyone wants...right?

DON'T BE IGNORENT TWORDS WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT

Chakotay, I'll get to you in a few min

[edit on 11/11/2004 by dusty1031]

lol, about the people 'enclosed w/ us' ANYWHERE in the argument did yousee a statement that said that legal immigrants can't cross the border back and forth? So what will you do? Act like you should as a Law Abiding Citizen of the United States and visit mexico all you want, comming and going, notice he said gaurd stations...

lol, you were here when our people got here...where did your people come from, spontanious generation? nope, probibly the landbridge from where our people were spawned too, so, really, this land belongs to your ansesters, and my ansesters in the cradle of humanity, why should you have ANY more right to it than I. Hmmm, and more so, who was the 1st person to step foot on the Americas, and did he/she return back to their home and not stay...? who's to know, so how do you again claim it more than I?

DON'T IGNORE THIS THIS TIME, YOU HAVE SEVERAL TIMES,

OOOooooooh Boy ho boy oh boy

Originally posted by mwm1331
We need a bigger population to be able to compete economically with, Primarily, the EU.

While your argument MAY seem sound it is not, the ability to compete economically is not based on the sheer numbers of producing population, it is based on the Effective output of the population. A small, well educated and efficient population will always outperform a large uneducated inefficient population (within statistical limits).

Originally posted by mwm1331
A merger with mexico would accomplish many objectives.

1) It would open up vast tracks of land that could quickly be converted into modern farms allowing the US to become more self suffecient in terms of food production. In addition the surplusses of grains and soy could be funneled into ethanol, and biodiesel helping us to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil.

By converting the large tracts of lands to Farmland you 1) are replacing currently wild ecological zones with developed zones, and 2) are placing quite a few (dare I say "native") people out of work. You would also encounter a great deal of opposition from the Big Oil interests.

Originally posted by mwm1331
2) Mexico and south america as a whole have moderately large oil and gas fields which could be more effeciently exploited.

These oil fields are already being efficiently exploited, the main problem with Mexican Oil is that it is extremely Sulfur rich which substantially increases the cost of refining.

Originally posted by mwm1331
3) The lack of infrastructure would bring in huge revenues for heavy industry which could be supported and funded by private industy for profit, reducing the governmental investments needed. Roads, power stations, Phone and internet lines cable and wireless providers etc.

I think you meant "The development of new modern infrastructure ..." would require a great deal of Tax monies as well.

Originally posted by mwm1331
4)As all mexican citizens would become US citzens it wold end all cases of mexican illegals being paid under the table which would increase the tax revenues offsetting the additional costs of social servies. While at the same time opening up far more lowend workers.

The last part I just couldn't understand your logic, but in reality, there would be a huge number of New citizens who would rely heavily on the Social Support system until they could be educated, employed and become self supporting. The 'new' U.S. would then have a little problem with Illegal Immigrants from farther south filling all the jobs the Illegal mexican immigrants previously filled.

Originally posted by mwm1331
5) t would open up mexican mineral deposits to American exploitation.

Already open.

Originally posted by mwm1331
6) The vast amounts of mexicans lving at or below the poverty line would naturally gravitate torwards the armed forces ...

That's supposition, and it's all a nice fairy tale but you forgot to discuss the inevitable Cultural Clash that would result as well.