Originally posted by Brad_cf
sorry small_peeps , but your a god hater

A god hater? No, I am a human lover.

You know, I have placed so much WT literature in people's hands, I figured I might see if I can whittle their whole core philosophy down to one, childish illustration. Here is what I came up with:



Like all JWs, I started life out on the right side of this drawing. The individual comes last. ...Eventually I came to reside on the left side of the drawing, with the rest of humanity. If Jehovah wants to destroy us on the left side of the drawing, then I suppose it is His right. I'll be happy to die for the sake of the diagram drawn here. The human soul is primary.

Do you hear this, brad? The human soul is primary. Each person holds the god-principle inside themselves. The key to understanding this is to respect yourself as a creation of God. You must not shirk your responsibility for personal free will by giving it to the WT corporation. Do not live under the inverted structure, if you want to find the true goodness in yourself.

- First, comes your own personal self (your knowledge and personal convictions).
- Then, comes support from (or allegience to) your family.
- Then, comes support from (or allegiance to) state/civil authorities.
- FINALLY, support from (or allegience to) systemic churches or religions.

The Watchtower, by utterly inverting this structure, betrays their goals: Total control of the human being, and erasure of their self-awareness.

Let us not forget Jesus example of the woman caught in the act of sex with a man not her husband. Jesus didn't even have time for the question of her judgement. He crouched down and began drawing in the dirt.

Now, how different is his behavior from the Watchtower, in relation to the simplistic sins of their followers? How petty are the investigations into the lives of the rank-and-file JWs? How long do you think the personal files kept on each member? Why must the Watchtower track all of this data in regard to their church? The Christian principle of mercy or forgiveness is not known to that church.

I am not a god hater, because God is not with your religion. The death ratio in your hoped-for end of the world, is 1000 heathens for every 1 JW. Only the psychopathic or tragically decieved would hope and pray that the Earth would be cleansed of .999% of it's humans, in order for them to finally have a happy life.

Anyway, if the JWs get put in camps and persecuted, I will be one of the first people to try and break them out via the underground JW railroad or what have you. I just wish they'd wake up before that persecution of them begins. I am speaking of many close friends and my family here, so know that I do not wish any harm to JWs in any way. I want them to find the truth that sets one free.


[edit on 6-7-2006 by smallpeeps]

im sorry but again your wrong

humanity is not the center of the universe . Humanity is not the most important part of creation

what has been at stake these last 6000 years is Jehovah's integrity & right to rule

is he good ?

does he have our best interests at heart ?

are we being used against our non-knowing will ?

are we being kept in the dark over things we would enjoy ?

do we have the right to fulfill our possible potential regardless ?


everything rests on Satans challenge , is Jehovah in the right or should we be allowed ultimate freedom - who has the right to decide

the pain & suffering can be reversed , the future in Gods kingdom holds things we cannot yet imagine . you are much too caught up in the "poor me , poor people" routine & are ignoring the only ultimate solution

Gods Governance

because human are totally useless at it themselves , look at the modern God , Science . its poweless against the politics that use & control it , & thats so predictable . because its mere humans proping the whole thing up

the sooner you drop the shoulder chip the sooner you will realise the pity routine is really just whining . yes we are bearing the brunt & are the stake at question , but the end result is greater than what is happening to humanity right now . & it will be finalised for all eternity , never to happen again . Satans foolishness seals the question & saves us from it forever more

it takes the ego to claim we are the primary - & thats a fact

we dont pray for people to be killed off , we hope for Gods Kingdom to come - its theonly way things are going to be fixed . we pray for people to come to know Jehovah - a relationship with him is the only way any of us will be saved thru armageddon , people have to be given the chance to learn of him , they discard that opportunity of their own will & God is the one who sees the reasons for this .

you are setting up Humanity as being property God shouldnt be allowed to touch , as if we , despite all the things we do over time that show our un-righteousness , are above his judgements just because we are alive .
just by being alive doesnt make us so special - its a gift that can be abused
like all your other posts you keep saying things that are false in nearly every line . like it or not , people who wont listen to God will not be allowed the right to live - this isnt a man-made judgement - its a warning given by us tho , & its part of the message of the bible that is the duty of real christians to give

focusing on that part means taking attention away from what God is truely like & why its right to follow Jehovah .

but people who hate god will always focus on the negative - the positives of God & his way of life are lost to them as thier circle of thought tightens

[edit on 7-7-2006 by Brad_cf]

Originally posted by Brad_cf
because human are totally useless at it themselves , look at the modern God , Science . its poweless against the politics that use & control it , & thats so predictable . because its mere humans proping the whole thing up

Here we see your opinion of the human race. You say humans are "useless". I have observed that this low opinion of others, actually reflects a low opinion of self, and that this sort of mental soil is the best place for the righteous/hateful JW seed to grow.

A lonely person who hates themselves and humanity, will always gravitate toward a solution where they can feel righteous and still look down on the rest of the world. This is what your mind craved, and so you found it. Others who feel humans are hateful evil people, would probably similarly be attracted to the JW teachings, because that's the mindset they've engineered it to produce. Superiority combined with fake pity. Your posts simply reek of it, brad.

the sooner you drop the shoulder chip the sooner you will realise the pity routine is really just whining .

It's whining to want the other 999 people who are not JWs to be spared? See, again, unlike you brad, I think the best of humanity. I think humans are great and that we can solve any problem that comes up. I do not share you grim view of either the world or the persons in it. That's your personal problem.

it takes the ego to claim we are the primary - & thats a fact

Wrong. It takes knowledge of your eternal soul, which you lack. This, as I have typed, is the key reason for the JW church: To deny the truth of the human soul and its rebirth.

Really, if you were to look closer at the religions that predate Jesus, you'd find belief in rebirth/reincarnation to be the larger portion. For hundreds of years after Christ, followers believed in Reincarnation and saw Jesus' words to reflect that truth. Mental blankets like the Watchtower cannot be kept over humanity's head forever.

you are setting up Humanity as being property God shouldnt be allowed to touch , as if we , despite all the things we do over time that show our un-righteousness , are above his judgements just because we are alive .

I simply am viewing us as God's creation. We are supreme here on Earth as living beings go. We are Godlike, if you will. It is sheer foolishness to assume the Watchtower view and become a sinful, belly-crawling slave to a corporate church, ignorant of one's soul. How can that be God's secret path to Him? No, God is not with you people.

but people who hate god will always focus on the negative - the positives of God & his way of life are lost to them as thier circle of thought tightens

The circle of thought? I'd like to hear more about this.

Notice how you use the term "God" when you are referring to the Watchtower. You say we must "Submit to God", but what you mean is "Submit to his Watchtower Church". Because as you admit, you would never go doorknocking on your own account. It is the WT church which drives you, entirely, and in surrendering your free will, you have done nothing which warrants merit in God's eyes.

It's actually a hypnosis technique, to begin speaking about one thing, and then to quietly replace that thing for another. So I could start out talking about how "We must be obedient to God" and then a minute later I have morphed the term "God" into the term "God's Organization"... See how it's done? It's the sort of hypnotic, subtle wordplay which the JW is trained to do, without their even knowing it. I learned a lot about mental tricks like hypnosis, word substitution, subconcious suggestion and other techniques like this once I left the Watchtower.

There is a massive difference in belief in "God" and making the leap toward seeing the tiny JW cult as "God Organization". One would be the omnipotent creator of all things, and the other is a newly formed corporation which sells books and keeps its members stupid. They are so far apart as not to be even remotely related.

smallpeeps!

props on the diagram

also, aren't we a bit off topic?

HOW COULD THE UN BAN RELIGION!!!

honestly, with what power, through what procedure?

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Here we see your opinion of the human race. You say humans are "useless". I have observed that this low opinion of others, actually reflects a low opinion of self, and that this sort of mental soil is the best place for the righteous/hateful JW seed to grow.
A lonely person who hates themselves and humanity, will always gravitate toward a solution where they can feel righteous and still look down on the rest of the world. This is what your mind craved, and so you found it. Others who feel humans are hateful evil people, would probably similarly be attracted to the JW teachings, because that's the mindset they've engineered it to produce. Superiority combined with fake pity. Your posts simply reek of it, brad.

oh wow - that is hilarious . Humans are useless at self-governance , History has thousands of years proving it . saying isnt a diss of people but what they are capable of & have so far accomplished .

you twist words so badly its so obvious , what im afraid of is that you actually believe your lies . im not lonely - i dont hate humanity - i dont "crave" to see people destroyed . & no real christian does

It's whining to want the other 999 people who are not JWs to be spared? See, again, unlike you brad, I think the best of humanity. I think humans are great and that we can solve any problem that comes up. I do not share you grim view of either the world or the persons in it.

then you dont look upon reality with anything like clear vision - what you "think" isnt being played out by people as they are today . & its so typical when we see the results of our not following gods direction . are we totally to blame ? no because Satan & his followers are helping the mayhem as best they can

you go ahead & "want" people who will do whats wrong to live all you want - God isnt so stupid as to believe his society can exist with rebellion happening all around - thus the action you hate so much will correct that which shouldnt have existed in the first place

does anyone have to get caught up & included in it ? no! God deserves to be worshipped - what he has done for us shows what kind of person he is & what he wants ends up being for our best . only people who refuse Jehovah or his commands have an assured death - you include yourself in that group only thru your actions smallpeeps - sadly it didnt have to be this way

Wrong. It takes knowledge of your eternal soul, which you lack. This, as I have typed, is the key reason for the JW church: To deny the truth of the human soul and its rebirth.

Really, if you were to look closer at the religions that predate Jesus, you'd find belief in rebirth/reincarnation to be the larger portion. For hundreds of years after Christ, followers believed in Reincarnation and saw Jesus' words to reflect that truth. Mental blankets like the Watchtower cannot be kept over humanity's head forever.

you are more lost than i realised . their is no eternal soul & like the other typical humanistic mortal ego teaching here we have yet another

death isnt to be feared - Jehovah is because it is he alone who can bring you out from death & its he alone who will choose to leave you their

I simply am viewing us as God's creation. We are supreme here on Earth as living beings go. We are Godlike, if you will. It is sheer foolishness to assume the Watchtower view and become a sinful, belly-crawling slave to a corporate church, ignorant of one's soul. How can that be God's secret path to Him? No, God is not with you people.

sure - go ahead & think the sun shines out of our behinds - the fact is that we were made from the dust . despite our not being animals we have to obey

we are not above Gods commands so much that he doesnt have the right to end that which wont obey - this might rankle you but your not seeing your place before God - we serve rathed than get ser

[edit on 11-7-2006 by Brad_cf]

The J.W.s are worse than the KKK.




SPIKE

Originally posted by spikevenoms
The J.W.s are worse than the KKK.

The JWs ar not worse than the KKK. They don't lynch people and they are good, fine normal people. I never noticed any racism in their group. In fact, it is the lack of racism which attracted my own parents to the group. I knew several racially mixed couples in that church and nobody seemed bothered by it.

Don't post crazy one line posts if you want to be respected at ATS.

Originally posted by spikevenoms
The J.W.s are worse than the KKK.

SPIKE

Say what??? You are way off Spike.

Wisconsin

Although being "born into The Truth" (as a few others of you, as I noticed), I never got baptized but it wasn't until I was 20 that I left my family and moved to another part of the country just to get rid of the JWs. Reading some of your statements was... kinda "flashback" - their vocabulary, their dogmas... funny.

They're nice people, they don't do anyone harm, they live peacefully with one another (and others as well), they are helpful, and I must even agree that compared to catholicism, protestantism or other christian sects they live most closest to biblical law... there's nothing bad I could say about them if I were uninvolved, but in some respects well-informed (and not led to believe they refuse medical help to their children or that they eat live chicken hearts or some sort of rumors spread about them).

Still, they're an "Organization" and as such, I soon began to mistrust them, because many of their "laws" were made to keep the Organization (Watch Tower, Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvenia) "clean" - I was not allowed to listen to Heavy Metal (not even the christian one, like Tourniquet or Saviour Machine; so I protested by listening to Slayer, Iced Earth and Metallica *g*), grow my hair to my shoulders, all these kind of things that were - in my POV - highly unbiblical. I mean, hey, even Jesus is mostly depicted as wearing long hair, he was a Nasirean (sp?) after all!

It may seem nonsense, but the restriction just became to many after a while. I lost my faith in the JW first, then my faith in the bible, lastly my faith in god.

It's five years later now, I believe that there is a god, I gained faith in myself, I know that JWs are very harmful to themselves, but I still respect the bible as a spiritual lecture, but no higher or lower, no more or less "divine" that the Holy Q'ran, the Tao-Te-King, the Thora or the Talman.

Still, of course, reading the newspapers these days reminds me of what I've learned about biblical prophecies since I was a child: famine, pestilence, war, earthquakes... does that have a meaning? I guess not, but if yes: when will "The Beast" turn against the "Whore Of Babylon" (the UN against world religigion)? I find funny that that "Mark Of The Beast" thing (the 666 on your hand or front head, so "noone without can buy or sell") is understood by some as the EAN Code (the three long pairs of stripes left, right, in the middle - 6 - 6 - 6) or the upcoming RFID chip implants.

Then again, it's funny that JWs currently seem to have no clue as to who the "North King" and "The South King" may be :-)

People just read too much into this.

BTW, I don't even like the biblical Jesus, but chances are I would have become a disciple of the historical Jesus had I lived in his days. Same with Buddha, though.

PS: smallpeeps, I like your diagram. I like it very much, thank you :-)

[edit on 7-8-2006 by Akareyon]

[edit on 7-8-2006 by Akareyon]

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Originally posted by spikevenoms
The J.W.s are worse than the KKK.

The JWs ar not worse than the KKK. They don't lynch people and they are good, fine normal people. I never noticed any racism in their group. In fact, it is the lack of racism which attracted my own parents to the group. I knew several racially mixed couples in that church and nobody seemed bothered by it.

Don't post crazy one line posts if you want to be respected at ATS.

Bravo. Bravo. I second that.

Wisconsin

Originally posted by Akareyon
I mean, hey, even Jesus is mostly depicted as wearing long hair, he was a Nasirean (sp?) after all!

[edit on 7-8-2006 by Akareyon]

[edit on 7-8-2006 by Akareyon]

I heard that the Nazirites were 'long hairs' that abstained from alcohol, correct?

Sincerely,

Wisconsin

Originally posted by Wisconsin2I heard that the Nazirites were 'long hairs' that abstained from alcohol, correct?

Correct. They vowed (temporarily or for their life-time) to stay clear from alcohol and grapes, to stay away from corpses and graves (even of near relatives) and not to shear their beard nor their hair (refer to Numeri (4th book of Moses), chapter 6).

Samson was one of them, the prophet Samuel and John the Baptist. It is believed by some that Jesus also was one of them; at least when he spent 40 days in the desert.

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

They can always practice secretly. Like witches did.
They're too worried about not being saved.
According to them, 144,000 will be saved of their faith, of course

Are there not more than 144,000 to begin with? Will they be fighting with themselves at the end times or something?

Deep

the other 6 million "faithful" will either live through the future great war and enter paradise on earth, or will be resurected to life everlasting on earth ruled by the kings and priest from heaven(144,000)

Originally posted by short
[...] ruled by the kings and priest from heaven(144,000)

a.k.a., in JW mythology, the 24 elders in Revelations 19:4.

(one good thing about my education in JW congregations though: I can look up most biblical passages in no time *g*)

BTW, JW don't mention "6 million" faithful. Anyone faithful to Jehovah since Abel will be resurrected.

[edit on 8-8-2006 by Akareyon]

growing up, we all read books that seemed to prophesy about the future. ray bradbury, and HG Wells, they seemed to come true in different ways. Farenheit 451, government burning books, people watching way to much tv, and taking pills to wake up, sleep, and just be able to move. But alot of the books i remeber reading growing always talked about a future world but never had any churches in them. Was there any religeon in startrek... seems like modern life is slowly moving towards the made up future from the 60's.

Anyway, spiritulality can only really be in the individual person, we all would like to believe in a higher calling, but the sad reality is there may not be one. Is it better to believe a lie to have hope or to know the reality? If religeon goes, will anyone morn it? If one religeon is created on the earth would anyone care? Would we all start going to church and paying attention, or would we go, and day dream like lots of kids do worldwide now.

With the continueing distruction of the constitution and are rights being taken away. Our pursuit of happiness and freedom to worship who we want may be gone for good.

I guess being raised religous i have this thought, if adam and eve existed, where is the church they worshiped in? was it a synagoge, mosk, kingdom hall, cathedral?

Death is scary, and it makes people believe silly things. Just for comfort sake people say the believe when they really may not.

I do think the United Nations is clearly not doing the job it was intended to do. It was the League of Nations wasn't it? What irony that any decision is taken by only five permanent members.

I'm not sure about the banning religion bit - Seems unlikely. They may on the other hand affect what is taught to the children (Which earlier posts have touched upon). I do believe that.

We are definitely moving towards a society that will be controlled by a global police of sorts. A society which has been made to (through mass conditioning i.e. disinformation i.e. BS on TV, in books, on stage, on screen, etc.) We have been conditioned to rely on things that we don't really need.

We have been conditioned to fear - Which inturn creates feelings of vengeance in those who are being feared/demonized which in turn justifies our actions! Our 'society' is a farce nowadays. A good example is the Western government. We've had every possible enemy in the last few centuries - From people to ideas to faiths to thoughts. Anything that is not in compliance with one is not in compliance with anyone. Atleast, thats how I see it.

All the above has been said by loads of people in this thread. I'm just unloading some stress!

EDIT: Spelling error.

[edit on 8/8/06 by Kamran]